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chicago
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Apparently, you DO believe in miracles.
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Scott_Lafrance
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After watching the Patriots last year start the season 1-2, loosing to the Buffalo Cows and the Washington Deadskins, and then going undefeated the rest of the season and winning the Superbowl, miracles aren’t that hard to believe in.
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Galieo
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Well as a graduate of both Notre Dame and DePaul, I win on both fronts.
Northwestern? Come on, the events themselves are not that exciting. I took my son to the Indiana v. Wildcats game this year and it was a fine time, but the stands were hardly filled. I have been to much better high school games as far as school spirit. I think people want to be passionate about their team; the student section was pretty meager at Northwestern, hard to get into the vibe when there isn’t one.
My theory about Chicago and Notre Dame is the name–Fightin’ Irish. There are a lot of Irish descendants in Chicago, so the name as well as the nominal Catholicism of Notre Dame is a natural fit. You are not contending that De Paul is even nominally Catholic, are you?
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chicago
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So who do you root for when they play each other?Well as a graduate of both Notre Dame and DePaul, I win on both fronts.
The problem in Chicago is that there really isn’t a local college football team to root for. (In fact the college game here is practically meaningless as compared to the Bears.) Most local fans who are interested are rooting for their alma mater, which is probably most often Michigan.
NU stunk the joint up until they got good a few years back. So nodoby cared and a tradition wasn’t built up. At the time, however, there was definite excitement and they captured the attention of locals, sold out, etc. on their road to the Rose Bowl (a year in which they defeated Michigan, Penn State, and Notre Dame, BTW). They have been mediocre ever since and haven’t held that base. Nor will they, unless they win as long as the Bears are around. Besides, most students attending NU aren’t there for the sports, anyway. The old chant when they were losing terribly was, “It’s alright, it’s okay, you’ll all work for us someday!”
OOOOOOOOOO…low blow. Though, admittedly, that is a close call in the ND-DePaul Catholicism thing.My theory about Chicago and Notre Dame is the name–Fightin’ Irish. There are a lot of Irish descendants in Chicago, so the name as well as the nominal Catholicism of Notre Dame is a natural fit. You are not contending that De Paul is even nominally Catholic, are you?
Nonetheless, the local commitment and longstanding intertwining of schools such as DePaul and Loyola with the local population and charcter of the city are much more signifigant to Chicagoans than Notre Dame.
You are getting at something of my point, however. Why should we bother rooting for a school just because it is supposedly “Catholic” when their integrity of witness on that level is nominal, at best, if not practically non-existant… and maybe actually counterproductive?
In fact, with a school like ND, if they didn’t have the history and the football team they do, perhaps it would actually force them to rethink their direction a bit just to better position themselves as offering something unique and worthwhile which is not essentially the same as any other secular institution in order to attract students.
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Galieo
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Since ND is my undergraduate school, that is the school I would root for in hoops. Football is harder to pick–;-).
I am very familiar with the Northwestern “tradition” if that is what you want to call it; it is a fine institution as a completely secular school. As we probably all know, the Medill School of Journalism is excellent and the graduate programs are all top notch. But it does not aim for the BIG TEN (err Eleven?) experience; it probably should not even be in the league, but to its undying shame the Ivy League would never, ever, let them in. Nor would the Maroons be invited into the Ivy League. Perhaps the Second City is just that?
Not intended as a low blow, merely my own personal observations–heck, University money was used to fund a Women’s Group that actively supported abortion. I took a class with Father Minogue (then President of De Paul) and he was either unable or unwilling to make the Catholic argument for certain bio-medical ethics positions. Not too impressive–that is not to say he wasn’t a good teacher, but I did not detect a Vincentian ethic running through his discussions.
Your assessment is spot on, the outgoing President of Notre Dame wanted desparately to take the University in precisely a different direction, he wanted to become the Stanford of the Midwest–maintain the competitive athletics, but boost the academics. But he betrayed a classic misunderstanding of the University and more importantly her alumni. The alumni are completely unwilling to compromise in that way and would rather compromise in others. As far as prominent Universities go, I think ND gets a barely passing grade on the Orthodoxy front, it is certainly no Georgetown, but then it isn’t the University of Dallas either. And in my opinion, De Paul is much closer to Georgetown than it is to ND. Now this is not a good proxy, but I think it is enlightening to compare the two mission statements.
depaul.edu/about_dp/mission.asp
nd.edu/aboutnd/about/mission/mission_statement.shtml
If you are hearing mixed emotions, then I have successfully communicated my feelings. No answers here, just observations.
I am very familiar with the Northwestern “tradition” if that is what you want to call it; it is a fine institution as a completely secular school. As we probably all know, the Medill School of Journalism is excellent and the graduate programs are all top notch. But it does not aim for the BIG TEN (err Eleven?) experience; it probably should not even be in the league, but to its undying shame the Ivy League would never, ever, let them in. Nor would the Maroons be invited into the Ivy League. Perhaps the Second City is just that?
Not intended as a low blow, merely my own personal observations–heck, University money was used to fund a Women’s Group that actively supported abortion. I took a class with Father Minogue (then President of De Paul) and he was either unable or unwilling to make the Catholic argument for certain bio-medical ethics positions. Not too impressive–that is not to say he wasn’t a good teacher, but I did not detect a Vincentian ethic running through his discussions.
Your assessment is spot on, the outgoing President of Notre Dame wanted desparately to take the University in precisely a different direction, he wanted to become the Stanford of the Midwest–maintain the competitive athletics, but boost the academics. But he betrayed a classic misunderstanding of the University and more importantly her alumni. The alumni are completely unwilling to compromise in that way and would rather compromise in others. As far as prominent Universities go, I think ND gets a barely passing grade on the Orthodoxy front, it is certainly no Georgetown, but then it isn’t the University of Dallas either. And in my opinion, De Paul is much closer to Georgetown than it is to ND. Now this is not a good proxy, but I think it is enlightening to compare the two mission statements.
depaul.edu/about_dp/mission.asp
nd.edu/aboutnd/about/mission/mission_statement.shtml
If you are hearing mixed emotions, then I have successfully communicated my feelings. No answers here, just observations.
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chicago
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Snobbish East Coast elitism. That’s why we don’t like them and their ways.
If anything, I think that Northwestern ought to be commended for sticking it out through thick and thin in the Big Ten. It is unfortunate that U of C isn’t still part of the league.
Now them is fightin’ words to this Irishman!
I don’t disagree much with what you say. I do occasionally attend their student Mass on Sunday (just because it is late and suits my schedule.) The irony is that Fr. Minogue was probably one of the better celebrants! (He’s gone now, BTW. Recently replaced with a priest from Sienna).
Of course, DePaul was the longstanding tenured home of the outright heretic and former priest John Dominic Crossan.
But, sadly, what was once a noble Catholic institution (which also had a high school that many long time Chicagoans attended) in the Vincentian spirit has become little more than a leftist social organization that happens to have some good programs (business, music in particular).
I might argue worse than Georgetown. Though I do think that something which needs to be remembered is that DePaul, unlike ND, is still essentially a commuter school. And this reality doesn’t enable the easy building of a thriving Catholic renewal on their campus as easily as some of the institutions at ND can be, at least nominally, retained or rebuilt.
Not to dismiss your point concerning the mission statements, but it should also be appreciated that the mission of each institution will be responsive to the environments in which each concretely exists, also, and articulated thusly. The circumstances which shape a school in South Bend, Indiana, then, are unique from the urban center which is Chicago. Of course, I am not much one for mission statements, in general, as they are usually little more than lofty pronouncements which often have little real relation to how things play out concretely.
I will note, as an aside, that I spent a year in high school at an institution run by the Holy Cross Fathers and do have respect for them and their university… even if I can’t bring myself to root for the school to win.
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Minerva
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it saddens me to see chicago advocating such heresy on these boards! :nope: Happiness at Notre Dame’s misfortune?? :tsktsk: I will pray that his misguided soul sees the light and stops its animus against Our Lady’s loyal sons. There’s hope, at least he’s not a Michigan fan!
GO TEXAS, BEAT MICHIGAN!!!
GO IRISH!!!
GO TEXAS, BEAT MICHIGAN!!!
GO IRISH!!!
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S.J
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And an Irishman no less! Doesnt he know that he is REQUIRED to be an ND fan
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jlw
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I root for Texas, but Cal should be in the Rose Bowl, not Texas.
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Michael_C
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Cal got a raw deal. Texas never beats anyone good. The big 12 is just not that good this year.
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chicago
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S.J.:
Ah, but remember I’m a Chicago Irishman and my country of national origin (Chicago) overrides all other traditional ethnic loyalties.And an Irishman no less! Doesnt he know that he is REQUIRED to be an ND fan
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Galieo
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As far as being a Chicago Irishman, same here. Personally I take no umbrage at being the Second City–like being called a Fightin’ Irish, you take a put down and turn into something grand.
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