New Convert, Already Frustrated By Local Parish

[GloriousOrder]

How is one … works?

Why, this is the very center of the whole issue! One is not supposed to show one’s heart except to God. That’s the point. Hearts are known only to our Lord. Why should you make it your concern to pour out your heart to anyone but Him?

False piety … reality.

Sentences like this are the reason I was so harsh. No human being can estimate himself or herself properly in the truest light of reason, because we are fallen. Our passions lead our reason, though in Adam’s original justice, our reason led our passions. Things are not rightly ordered at the moment, so to assume that you estimate yourself according to reality is false piety. Assume you know nothing, and collect all loving suggestions and admonitions from everyone.

If it’s hard for you … just a sliver of me.

A tiny cross-section of a corpse can be examined under the light of microscopes. We are all walking corpses without the grace and light of Christ our Lord. I never called you evil, and please forgive me if I lacked the clarity that would lead you to think such a thing! For such a person who has overcome cynicism, self-loathing, self-pity, fear, and misanthopy (exactly like myself), it is rightly-ordered to accept that God has blessed him, and then to move forward.

Don’t publish this fact to everyone. Who cares what your problems are, or were? It’s especially less relevant now that they are overcome (as you’ve said they are). Have you truly overcome your fear, though, since you’re on a very strict attack mode here? You’re attacking yourself, the priest, the deacon, and anyone who isn’t perfect in your parish.

The world is profoundly soft and mushy today, it’s true, but it doesn’t mean you have to go about whinging. Masculinity’s first virtue is fortitude: courage to do what the virtue of Justice tells us is right. Manliness also consists in doing the good despite a lack of pleasure that may come from doing the good. Avoiding the good because you want pleasure is the vice of effeminacy. Are you pleasuring yourself by making these complaints? Wouldn’t it be better to offer them all to God our blessed Lord, and imagine the cross is weighed down with your sorrows? Let God overtake this burning zealotry and calm it. He doesn’t want us full of anxiety, but full of courage and good will.

I appreciate your honesty … to God within the Church.

Devout youth that thinks it is devout loses its devotion. Holy men that are called holy become unholy. Do not praise yourself before us or in your own mind. You’re nothing; I am nothing, and we are all made out of absolute zero. God is the only one, and He truly is One when we are none. Just trust Him, for goodness’ sake. Your hysterical worrying is clouding your ability to find your God-given talents at the moment anyway. Calm yourself, friend!

I … another man’s path.

Jesus Christ our Lord is the only path. There is no path for any man that is distinct to him. We have different temperaments and natures, it’s true, but the final goal and supreme end of life is God. If you need “another man’s” path today, you’ll have to follow that man’s path today; if you need your “own path” tomorrow, follow your own path tomorrow. It doesn’t matter what you want and don’t want, or like and don’t like. God knows, and provides everything.

Is it really holier to NOT be intellectual? I can be heart and head devout, can I not?

Read St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Bonaventure, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Theresa of Avila, and St. Augustine. The great Doctors were not hysterical or “frustrated”. If they were ever annoyed by their brothers and sisters’ faults (which they seldom were, recognising their own faults in others), they prayed. The great Doctors always used head and heart, intellect and will, faith, hope, and charity. Read them all!

It is holy to be intellectual, but the Church warns never to become so intellectual you transform into a rationalist. Trying to explain everything eventually leads you to explain some things that cannot be explained. Since pride usually comes before submission to the truth, those things that cannot be explained end up forcing us to abandon the faith out of arrogance.

I hate my own pride, I have mercy on my loved ones, This all seems so wrong.

Our Lord Jesus Christ has justified all men by the cross. He alone has “mercy”, because He alone is God. Don’t trap yourself into the delusion of saying “I have mercy”, as only God has the right to be merciful, since God alone is insulted by sin. Your fears may be totally real and nightmarish, but now that you have been purified by them there is no need to dwell. We are made for God, and to be separated from Him is Hell. Cling to His perfect majesty! Pray!

Also, I don’t believe in the American culture’s PC version of charity … I would have broken down and conceded at the slightest criticism.

“La dee da”, as they say. Never be willing to “make a stink”, because that sort of language is self-righteous rubbish. You don’t make stinks or kick up dirt or make a storm; you live, pray, humble yourself, and quietly do what Christ tells you. The Holy Spirit of God pushes you forward. Don’t call yourself respectful, because it’s silly to take pride in something that we’re all expected to be. It’s hardly an extraordinary accomplishment!

You’ve gone far, but others went much longer down the road of suffering. Read about saints who really went through a lot. A little misanthropy is nothing compared to the hateful corruption St. Mary Mackillop had to trudge through. She took it well, and in all her letters she didn’t even act as if she was being hounded by corrupt bishops. All she did was bless them. Bless those who frustrate you!

 

[WoundedIcon]

I respect what you have to say, and I understand that there is much truth in it. Maybe I’m trying to have my cake and eat it too. It’s just that I’ve spent my whole life trying to protect myself from having my human dignity, personality, and even some of my civil rights torn away from me. I don’t like being reminded by my priest of some of those psychiatrists and such who have prejudged and abused me. It’s a very dangerous thing in my mind to sit idly by when it happens. I’m really not so like this in my better moments however, and my better moments have been vast.

Oye. You’re right, never mind. My grandmother just turned me back to 1 Corinthians 13… and I got it clearly for the first time.

Forgive me. But I still am clueless as to whether I should remain in my parish because I feel I have some valid concerns. I know the mature (wise LOL) thing to do is discuss it with them, but what happens if they don’t get it… ? I just don’t want to be in harm’s way in what should be sanctuary to me.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Now excuse me for a moment, I have something meaningless, fun, and stupid to do.

 

[WoundedIcon]

But still, I cannot concede about the private revelations. They do humble me, but my pride is at such a defensive height that they chink away at it ever so slowly. Not to mention they were spread out over a long period of time in which I incurred tons of injury, so that defeats the effect in a way. And yes, from what I’ve seen some of them were pretty much straight out of Satan’s tooter. But some were incredibly orthodox. I don’t know, I need to write them out in excruciating detail and have them reviewed. I honestly want to do that to be certain, because some could either incredibly bless me, or lead me so far off the deep end depending on whose hand their from.

Sometimes they just make me think… what am I? Why me? I’m just a stupid kid! I don’t deserve this all. Thanks… ?

 

[WoundedIcon]

I kinda like it when God beats the crud outta me. Aw, He loves me XDDDD

 

[Bbigam]

To the OP,
No offense please, but you sound very troubled and extremely intense. I don’t know much about private revelations. But I think you should trust your deacon and priest as much as possible. Trust them unless they are doing or teaching something contrary to the Catechism, etc. And, may I tentatively suggest, don’t trust your private revelations unless you have compared them to authentic Catholic teaching as found in the Catechism. It seems strange to me that, unless I have misunderstood you, your priest has challenged your private revelations in the confessional; I don’t know why they would even come up. Maybe you also need to keep your private revelations to yourself for the time being. Just go and confess your sins - it doesn’t have to be a long conversation. Go behind the screen. Maybe at some point you can find a trusted, educated, faithful Catholic friend who can review your revelations with you - preferably a priest, but not in the confessional.

(I do, by the way, disagree with what your priest said about penance being for self-improvement and not temporal punishment. Why can’t it be both?)

It doesn’t sound like going to another parish, even an Extraordinary Form community, is likely to fix the problem, because if personality conflicts and a preference for things done differently are the problem, you could have problems anywhere you go. Back off a little, breathe, read the Catechism, pray, go to Mass and confession. Realize that God’s primary way of bestowing his blessings is through His Church, and accept those blessings, rely on them, especially the Eucharist.

 

[the_phoenix]

To the OP,
No offense please, but you sound very troubled and extremely intense. I don’t know much about private revelations. But I think you should trust your deacon and priest as much as possible. Trust them unless they are doing or teaching something contrary to the Catechism, etc. And, may I tentatively suggest, don’t trust your private revelations unless you have compared them to authentic Catholic teaching as found in the Catechism. It seems strange to me that, unless I have misunderstood you, your priest has challenged your private revelations in the confessional; I don’t know why they would even come up. Maybe you also need to keep your private revelations to yourself for the time being. Just go and confess your sins - it doesn’t have to be a long conversation. Go behind the screen. Maybe at some point you can find a trusted, educated, faithful Catholic friend who can review your revelations with you - preferably a priest, but not in the confessional.

(I do, by the way, disagree with what your priest said about penance being for self-improvement and not temporal punishment. Why can’t it be both?)

It doesn’t sound like going to another parish, even an Extraordinary Form community, is likely to fix the problem, because if personality conflicts and a preference for things done differently are the problem, you could have problems anywhere you go. Back off a little, breathe, read the Catechism, pray, go to Mass and confession. Realize that God’s primary way of bestowing his blessings is through His Church, and accept those blessings, rely on them, especially the Eucharist.

Agree.

 

[hazcompat]

“Think nothing else but that God ordains all, and where there is no love, put love, and there you will draw out love.” Saint John of the Cross

peace

 

[WoundedIcon]

I agree too. And the reason those things came up is because they had to do with contrition, fear of hell, and consolation of God being with me. It’s not that he dismissed particular things, more-so that we didn’t go further in the matter. Something happened that I needed to confess to giving into during one of my penances is as well.

God bless you all.

Crazy Tony

 

[WoundedIcon]

To the OP,
No offense please, but you sound very troubled and extremely intense. I don’t know much about private revelations. But I think you should trust your deacon and priest as much as possible. Trust them unless they are doing or teaching something contrary to the Catechism, etc. And, may I tentatively suggest, don’t trust your private revelations unless you have compared them to authentic Catholic teaching as found in the Catechism. It seems strange to me that, unless I have misunderstood you, your priest has challenged your private revelations in the confessional; I don’t know why they would even come up. Maybe you also need to keep your private revelations to yourself for the time being. Just go and confess your sins - it doesn’t have to be a long conversation. Go behind the screen. Maybe at some point you can find a trusted, educated, faithful Catholic friend who can review your revelations with you - preferably a priest, but not in the confessional.

(I do, by the way, disagree with what your priest said about penance being for self-improvement and not temporal punishment. Why can’t it be both?)

It doesn’t sound like going to another parish, even an Extraordinary Form community, is likely to fix the problem, because if personality conflicts and a preference for things done differently are the problem, you could have problems anywhere you go. Back off a little, breathe, read the Catechism, pray, go to Mass and confession. Realize that God’s primary way of bestowing his blessings is through His Church, and accept those blessings, rely on them, especially the Eucharist.

Some of the things are consistent with the Catechism. Some aren’t. I’ve pretty much dismissed those ones. The more complex ones I need checked out by clergy in case there’s one little admixture of untruth in them.

 

[thirddec]

Remember that when the church judges any mystical events if anything in it disagrees with church teaching it is all thrown out as satan will always hide his lies in truths. So it makes sense that the priest try to move you away from these revelations for now.

I do advise you pray for humility and wisdom when dealing with this whole issue.

 

[jmcrae]

You know what, call me prideful, but I like to try and think rationally and rationally speaking a person who has talked to me all of around thirty minutes in my life should not be trying to make statements about my heart, who I am, my grip on reality (he basically told me I’m deluded and stuck in a fantasy world), and should not be trying to change my personality. A person who is wise should not jump to conclusions about a person’s heart when all he hears about him is a few of his worst moments and not ALL the details. It’s confession, and I tried to be a good Catholic and be honest and open - and it’s blown up in my face: it’s like he thinks I’m sick, and not in the medical sense. He’s supposed to be there to help me with sin, not force me to conform my personality to his hasty conclusions. So seminary or not, I already know this man is unwise. I’m sure clown mass priests went to seminary too… so priest or not, he’s made a huge mistake and I cannot stand for it.

I’ve overcome too much of my mental illness to sit there and have someone tell me I’m totally schizo, especially when everyone ELSE knows that I barely manifest symptoms. But hey, if actually being devout, and convinced of the supernatural, mystical, and intellectual, if being like St. Teresa gets me screwed over, bless the Lord.

The first law of humility is that it’s okay for people to misunderstand you and to give you the wrong advice. You have to realize that you are not so famous that everyone has heard of you or knows anything about you. Say “Thank you, Father,” take with you whatever works for you, leave the rest, and move on, instead of spending so much energy being offended.

He’s not actually required to give you any advice at all; the only thing he is required to give you is the Absolution, as long as you have made a sincere confession of all of your sins, to the best of your ability. There is also no need to get into detail, and you are certainly not required to mention anything about any mental illnesses.

Just say, Bless me Father for I have sinned, my last Confession was - . I did this, so many times; I did that, so many times, for these and for all the sins of my life Father I am truly sorry.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Yes. One little thing off and poof the whole thing turns into the supernatural equivalent of a handsome, charming serial killer. Evil usually looks pretty good to us, especially in a slick white suit. Blah, blah, blah metaphor analogy

I’m trying to chill out now, I went to confession and took care of things. When I get hurt it tends to trigger a moment where I become indecisive, fickle, bitter, dissonant. Everything becomes tainted by confusion and a scramble to defensively secure myself out of fear, a negative light gets cast on everything and I go from “I like these people, Mass is pretty, Father’s cool and the deacon genuinely cares” to interpreting everything in reverse. Although I still do need to get an extended moment with Father to talk about his interpretation of something that I disagreed on. I didn’t get to explain enough at the time.

It’s kind of funny too, because really they’re telling me to try and make things easier for myself and I, in the very opposite you’d expect for a college-aged kid, want it harder. I tend to have a problem with needing to be praiseworthy, and it makes me neurotic when I can’t jump high enough to hit my head on heaven’s floor. And then I break down and wig out then slump. As my neighbor told me, sometimes you just can’t reach that level. Aim for the stars but take the clouds if you can’t get that high ya know.

 

[WoundedIcon]

The first law of humility is that it’s okay for people to misunderstand you and to give you the wrong advice. You have to realize that you are not so famous that everyone has heard of you or knows anything about you. Say “Thank you, Father,” take with you whatever works for you, leave the rest, and move on, instead of spending so much energy being offended.

He’s not actually required to give you any advice at all; the only thing he is required to give you is the Absolution, as long as you have made a sincere confession of all of your sins, to the best of your ability. There is also no need to get into detail, and you are certainly not required to mention anything about any mental illnesses.

Just say, Bless me Father for I have sinned, my last Confession was - . I did this, so many times; I did that, so many times, for these and for all the sins of my life Father I am truly sorry.

I bring the mental illness up because it plays strongly into the three requirements for mortal sin. I’m bipolar, and may have some kind of traumatic stress disorder. TMI maybe for online, but I figure if I’m gonna talk about this people might as well know. But yes, I did consciously make the effort to keep it brief today because I need to relax and just stop trying so hard.

Plus a part of me admires him as a priest and person, so I can take things too personally or want his advice or wind up chatting. But I know that hogs up other people’s opportunities during Confession times so I’ve stopped.

 

[veilofveronica]

Welcome!!!

The Church is there for everyone: intellectuals, free spirits, simple folk, etc. It is like a huge umbrella that everyone can find a place underneath. Unfortunately, not every priest or deacon, or parish, is going to suit everyone’s needs 100%. Every parish is a bit different, but I wouldn’t try “church hopping” just yet.

Above all else, Catholics are there for the Holy Mass. We’re there for Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Try to concentrate on that. I know that it can be difficult when the choir sings poorly or sings songs that seem odd, or when the priest’s particular style isn’t your cup of tea. But the Mass is universal, no matter what Catholic Church you go to, it’s power will touch you. Try to concentrate on Jesus.

I know that I have a tendency to over-intellectualize things, too. Pray to Jesus and ask him to help you to make your real intentions known to your priest and deacon. I know that I sometimes get stuck in the cycle of thinking that I “already know all this stuff” when there really is a lot more that I can learn. Maybe God is trying to teach you something through this difficult situation. There can often be hidden gems of wisdom in the oddest of places. Try to seek Christ in the priest and deacon, and see what He is trying to teach you. Spend time in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Talk to Jesus. HE is the one you are going to see at Mass. Not the parishioners, the choir, or the priest. Jesus. It helps to focus on that.

I can relate to your mental health issue. I’m bipolar, too. I know that since I returned to Church (I was away for some time.) , it has helped me greatly with my illness. One thing that I really had to learn was surrender. Give everything over to God. He knows better what to do than we do.

God bless you.

 

[onmyknees]

I would consider another Parish, but before you do that if you can make an appointment with your priest and discuss your differences, you may be able to make a wise decision. My parish is like this also, so I try and confess to another priest and attend the TM Mass as much as I can.

I agree with this. If you have a priest/deacan who is not telling you the true teachings of the Church than I would visit other parishes until you find one with a priest who is faithful to Church teaching. You are humble if you realize that all your talents and all the good you do are gifts from God. We can do nothing without Him.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Nah, don’t worry about their teachings. I was just going all peanutter. Besides, what do I know?

And, yeah, an eensy bit of the music seems a little weird. But really, we have a beautiful church. Modern style, but cruciform and east facing - I heard that was important, but not sure why. It was originally built when the TLM was performed. It’d be cool to get it going again, but it’d be a logistical nightmare for them and our mass is reverent as it is. God put the Novus Ordo on Earth for a reason, so I’m not too worried. I think it helped emphasize Christian love in an age where the Lord knew there would be ever accelerating decay. When I first went there, Sunday before ash Wednesday, it was the first mass I had ever attended. And it just really struck a chord in me, I just kinda knew that this is Christ’s, this is GOD. I always was drawn to ritual and symbolism and elegance and exaltation, the kind of more cultic things I guess. I liked the idea of sacraments, rosaries were beautiful to me. (God actually had to shut a few doors to keep me from wearing one vainly before I believed.) When I was a Protestant it mis-manifested itself as a nagging interest in Wicca. And what gamer doesn’t love choirs blasting Latin in video games Angels, saints, miracles, the charismatic gifts, philosophy, wisdom, art - yum.

I know I’m contradicting myself now, but as I already said - when I go peanutter I get real dissonant.

 

[onmyknees]

Oh I love all those beautiful things that we have in the Catholic Church. I could not live without them. When I am at the holy sacrifice of the mass and all those angels, and saints come down to worship Him with us, heaven meets earth! I am so in awe!

When I first reverted back to the Church the people had redone the church building to look more modern. They broke up the marble steps and altar, took the beautiful statues and hid them away downstairs. They replaced the altar, steps and statues with wood. They took the Blessed Sacrament and put Him in a chapel off to the side of the church. The altar was put in the center of the church so it would be more about community

Fortunately, we got a new pastor and he put the tabernacle with Jesus back up front on the back marble altar, moved the wood altar up there too. He replaced the stairs, moved the pews so all were facing the Blessed Sacrament and brought the statues back into the church.

 

[Stavros]

Much of the issues that the OP bring up sound like instead of finding peace in Christ, you are finding stresses with relationships, and frustrations with leadership within your parish, and distractions from things that will actually help you to grow spiritually.

When you read the writings of great saints, like Mother Theresa, or St. Therese of Liseaux, or St. Therese of the Andes, the one thing that you hear over and over is the phrase “What I want doesn’t matter, only what God wants matters.” They gladly serviced the poorest of the poor, and accepted the most menial of duties, and allowed persecution of themselves because they knew that it was God’s will. Many of the saints that help to inspire devotion were simple uneducated nuns who never left the protection of their cloister. Others were simple priests who tended to their flocks and did their best to live life as God wanted them to live.

Maybe this conflict with leadership in the church is being given to you by God to give you humility, to help you find ways to help yourself. Maybe the stress is there to help you realize that it’s not about the priest, or about God, but about Christ and your desire to do His will above all else.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Much of the issues that the OP bring up sound like instead of finding peace in Christ, you are finding stresses with relationships, and frustrations with leadership within your parish, and distractions from things that will actually help you to grow spiritually.

When you read the writings of great saints, like Mother Theresa, or St. Therese of Liseaux, or St. Therese of the Andes, the one thing that you hear over and over is the phrase “What I want doesn’t matter, only what God wants matters.” They gladly serviced the poorest of the poor, and accepted the most menial of duties, and allowed persecution of themselves because they knew that it was God’s will. Many of the saints that help to inspire devotion were simple uneducated nuns who never left the protection of their cloister. Others were simple priests who tended to their flocks and did their best to live life as God wanted them to live.

Maybe this conflict with leadership in the church is being given to you by God to give you humility, to help you find ways to help yourself. Maybe the stress is there to help you realize that it’s not about the priest, or about God, but about Christ and your desire to do His will above all else.

You’re right, I realized that earlier today. God was chastening me and answering my prayers about my parish. Sometimes a hard moment is just what it takes.

My issue was really about insecurity, trying to keep control through being analytical, and being misguided in how I view Catholic spirituality. Now that God’s shown me that I’m safe being how I really want (hippie XD) I can relax. I’m used to “good Christians” having to be narrow and brusque. And since I’m disabled I spend a lot of time studying online, and it’s kind of like a self-inflicted punishment and a channel for the work I can’t do.
:idea:

I just realized… well, look at that ^

I feel like I’m not a good man.

LOL, it always comes back to some kind of romantic, gender, marriage-related, so on issue for me.

Which is even funnier, because for the past few hours I’ve been considering the Secular Franciscan Order as a calling.