New elements of the Liturgy

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whipp711

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First off, not allergic to change. Reading Akin’s “Mass Revision,” I find I support the rewording of much of the liturgy. More reverent and maybe closer to the original wording.

I am having difficulty with the new Glory. Not the word changes. Our parishes’ music ministry driven mass has adopted the Schutte (maybe misspelled) version. All sing one part, only men sing one part, women have their segment. I find it…what are the words…

I tolerate the band with kazoos. Clapping at the end of Mass I ignore. I don’t get irritated that the parish eliminated the bells at consecration. People raising hands, not bowing before receiving communion.

God grant me the serenity and patience to focus on him.
 
whipp711 said:
I am having difficulty with the new Glory. Not the word changes. Our parishes’ music ministry driven mass has adopted the Schutte (maybe misspelled) version. All sing one part, only men sing one part, women have their segment. I find it…what are the words…
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That’s the way choirs usually do it, although it’s usually separated into alto, soprano, etc. parts. I personally wished they would extend that to general participation. It might get people to concentrate a little more on the words of the Mass that way. IMO.

It’s done at Papal Masses.

youtube.com/watch?v=D1qfHQtWAg4
 
ProVobis said:
That’s the way choirs usually do it, although it’s usually separated into alto, soprano, etc. parts. I personally wished they would extend that to general participation. It might get people to concentrate a little more on the words of the Mass that way. IMO.

It’s done at Papal Masses.

youtube.com/watch?v=D1qfHQtWAg4
Click to expand...
Understand. Interesting.

I’m just being a stick in the mud. The music is newly written (I think), and it just sounds like a show tune. Okay, less reacting and concentrating on the words and meaning.
 
Dan Schutte composed for the new liturgy? The guy is not in a nursing home yet? His music is so passe I cannot understand why any music director is still doing it. It would be like Lincoln Center having a Ferrante and Teicher concert.
 
Margie9 said:
Dan Schutte composed for the new liturgy? The guy is not in a nursing home yet? His music is so passe I cannot understand why any music director is still doing it. It would be like Lincoln Center having a Ferrante and Teicher concert.
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Our music director, bless his soul, truly believes in the music ministry. We occasionally sign “On eagles wings” song. Typically have electric guitars, two flutes, bongos in the band, uh, I mean choir. A small percentage of the congregation clap like they are at a concert. Like I said early, it’s a music driven mass.

I just need to get over it, but I am dreading the next element of the mass to be revealed, with music.
 
ProVobis said:
That’s the way choirs usually do it, although it’s usually separated into alto, soprano, etc. parts. I personally wished they would extend that to general participation. It might get people to concentrate a little more on the words of the Mass that way. IMO…
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It also might get people (men) to sing more if they have their own part.

This aspect of catholic worship surprised me when I converted. Growing up, the protestant hymnbooks all had at least two voice parts.

Also, they’re not “male” or “female” parts per se - squeaky-voiced men can take the upper line, women can take the lower line, if they feel so moved.
 
JHow said:
It also might get people (men) to sing more if they have their own part.
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That’s what I’m thinking too. There seems to be a different psychology when there are actual parts for the more meek or deeper voices, where normally they would get drowned out and wouldn’t bother to sing. Give everyone a part so they’ll all have a chance to sing and be heard. Separation by men and women seems to be the easiest, although I wouldn’t have any objection if they separated by aisles like the nuns used to do with us. 🙂
 
I’m a convert. I always thought it was funny how Catholics (as a whole) were not good singers. I remember an old Prairie Home Companion broadcast. Garrison Keller was talking about a Lake Wobegone church sing off contest or something. The Presbyternians and Methodist were pumped up. The Lutherans were serious, and the Catholics were huddled in the corner…shaking with fear.

Just a little humor for the day.😃
 
whipp that is funny- thanks I always wondered as a former calvinist why catholics don’t sing - it baffles me, then again the meek amens at communion should be a sign.
 
whipp711 said:
I’m a convert. I always thought it was funny how Catholics (as a whole) were not good singers. I remember an old Prairie Home Companion broadcast. Garrison Keller was talking about a Lake Wobegone church sing off contest or something. The Presbyternians and Methodist were pumped up. The Lutherans were serious, and the Catholics were huddled in the corner…shaking with fear.

Just a little humor for the day.😃
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It comes from all those years of having a choir in the loft and the preist in the sanctuary and the congregation as observers. Old habit die hard.
 
ProVobis said:
That’s the way choirs usually do it, although it’s usually separated into alto, soprano, etc. parts. I personally wished they would extend that to general participation. It might get people to concentrate a little more on the words of the Mass that way. IMO.

It’s done at Papal Masses.

youtube.com/watch?v=D1qfHQtWAg4
Click to expand...
I don’t think I’m interpreting it like you are. What I’m understanding from the post is that the choir, the males and the females will alternate what they sing. So a 3 verse Gloria would see the choir sing one verse, the women sing another and the men sing another. To me that’s contrived and in other occasions where I’ve heard that tried the results were not great. You usually get much better results to have the choir sing the verses and the assembly the refrain.
 
FAB said:
It comes from all those years of having a choir in the loft and the preist in the sanctuary and the congregation as observers. Old habit die hard.
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Very true. Many of us never saw a dialogue Mass before Vat. II. When we were finally allowed to speak during Mass for many it was extremely difficult to do so – they still felt they were doing something wrong.
Parents whisper responses out of a sense of guilt for speaking —> kids whisper responses because that’s what they experience around them.

Add to this parishes where the choir is the be all and end all and nobody but them sings, and that’s how you end up with a silent congregation.
 
We were honestly expecting a higher quality of music with this new translation? Goodness, it’s an opportunity for the same old, same old to make more MONEY! Now, they get to rewrite their schlock with the new words and sell MORE!

Everyone wins.

Except those who couldn’t stand the blaise music in the first place.
 
Phemie said:
I don’t think I’m interpreting it like you are. What I’m understanding from the post is that the choir, the males and the females will alternate what they sing. So a 3 verse Gloria would see the choir sing one verse, the women sing another and the men sing another. To me that’s contrived and in other occasions where I’ve heard that tried the results were not great. You usually get much better results to have the choir sing the verses and the assembly the refrain.
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It is actually even worse than that. In the first and third verses, each phrase switches back and forth between men and women. So it is (men) We praise you, (women) we bless you, (men) we adore you (women) we glorify you… etc. Same kind of thing for the third verse. The congregation is supposed to sing the chorus and the whole choir the second verse.

I agree that it is not a good thing. My parish is using that mass, but fortunately, we are ignoring all of that and it is just unison for all those parts.
 
whipp711 said:
Our music director, bless his soul, truly believes in the music ministry. We occasionally sign “On eagles wings” song. Typically have electric guitars, two flutes, bongos in the band, uh, I mean choir. A small percentage of the congregation clap like they are at a concert. Like I said early, it’s a music driven mass.

I just need to get over it, but I am dreading the next element of the mass to be revealed, with music.
Click to expand...
Whew, I don’t know how you stand it! I get tired of the same lady playing the piano and leading us all in song (especially since we have a beautiful pipe organ that never gets used). Maybe I will appreciate her more now - maybe. 😉
 
Those of you who are critique the music, do sing in the choir? cantor? Songlead? play a musical instrument? piano? organ? guitar? and if not why not.

All parish church choirs are folks, some read music, the vase majority often don’t. As a result the music that many complain about has the composed for not only the pianist or organist to play but simple enough for the folks in the pews to be able to sing.
It’s for that reason that there are not complex musical lines. It seems that many want Bach to be played but only the capability of of singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.
 
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