New elements of the Liturgy

[Phemie]

Those of you who are critique the music, do sing in the choir? cantor? Songlead? play a musical instrument? piano? organ? guitar? and if not why not.

All parish church choirs are folks, some read music, the vase majority often don’t. As a result the music that many complain about has the composed for not only the pianist or organist to play but simple enough for the folks in the pews to be able to sing.
It’s for that reason that there are not complex musical lines. It seems that many want Bach to be played but only the capability of of singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.

Oh, you mean they play Bach and we sing Mozart?

 

[FAB]

Oh, you mean they play Bach and we sing Mozart?

Most want Bach or Mozart, but don’t have the talent for either. As a result we have music that can be sung by the lower common denominator.

 

[YoungTradCath]

It comes from all those years of having a choir in the loft and the preist in the sanctuary and the congregation as observers. Old habit die hard.

Literally maybe three people in my church actually sing. 99% of the sound still comes from the choir. I’m good with that though.

 

[Phemie]

Those of you who are critique the music, do sing in the choir? cantor? Songlead? play a musical instrument? piano? organ? guitar? and if not why not.

All parish church choirs are folks, some read music, the vase majority often don’t. As a result the music that many complain about has the composed for not only the pianist or organist to play but simple enough for the folks in the pews to be able to sing.
It’s for that reason that there are not complex musical lines. It seems that many want Bach to be played but only the capability of of singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.

I pitch in when I have to but I can only sing a capella so I’m limited to Saturday evening if there’s no one else better to do it. I start a hymn and then the rest take it over. I chant the Litany of the Saints if there’s a Saturday baptism. I know my limitations.

I have never learned to sing and as the choir director said one Easter Vigil, “Phemie will start the Psalm Refrain in whatever key she chooses and we’ll simply have to follow.” I can no more reproduce a note from a pitch pipe or piano than I can fly to the moon. Yet I’m often asked why I’m not in the choir – personally, I don’t get it because most of my life I was told to shut up.

 

[MissRose73]

I will have to ask my uncle who sings in the church choir about the new arrangements what he thinks of them. He is a good singer, and has done some cantoring too.

Most church choirs welcome anyone and rarely ask for people to audition with the exception of those who want to be soloists or cantors. I would sing in the choir but with my work schedule makes it hard to for me to get to a Sunday Mass as I have to work that day and go to Saturday evening Mass instead. I consider myself a decent singer but I know I am no professional & cannot read music at all.

 

[mcmitton]

Our archdiocese highly recommended Haugen’s “Storrington Mass” and the ICEL Chants. So, good followers that we are, we have begun to sing the Storrington “Gloria” and the memorial acclamation “Save Us…” thus far.

October will find us adding the “Holy, Holy, Holy”, “Lamb Of God”, and the unbelievably difficult “Amen”. … kidding …]

One person who has heard the Storrington “Lamb of God” said it sounded like lounge music. I have no comment, I just play it.

While I personally prefer the Latin, I am anxious to hear the English chants sung. I’ll need to persuade the two other musicians tho’. Interestingly enough, our small parish has been singing the “Sanctus”, “Amen”, and “Agnus Dei” [yup, in Latin] during Lent for two years past. Although there were moans of complaint from a few, the Latin added a most respectful aspect to our worship, and pleased quite a few old-timers.

English vs. Latin? I want Latin, but I’ll settle for English chant if the two senior musicians agree.

 

[ProVobis]

Oh, you mean they play Bach and we sing Mozart?

I thought “Twinkle, twinkle, little star” came from Haydn (Symphony 94).

 

[ProVobis]

Of course a through sung Gloria with everyone singing everything is the best option.

Although I’m not a huge fan of Anglophone church music, I do like Peter Jones’ arrangement. (I also greatly admire the music of the late Richard Proulx.) They seemed to get people singing if nothing else. But I understand that music will be “retired” shortly.

 

[Phemie]

I thought “Twinkle, twinkle, little star” came from Haydn (Symphony 94).

Mozart did it 10 years earlier “Variations on ‘Ah! vous dirai-je, Maman’” but the music had actually been published 21 years before Mozart did it and dates back to the early 1700s.

 

[Phemie]

Although I’m not a huge fan of Anglophone church music, I do like Peter Jones’ arrangement. (I also greatly admire the music of the late Richard Proulx.) They seemed to get people singing if nothing else. But I understand that music will be “retired” shortly.

I wish Somerville would rewrite his Good Shepherd Gloria. It’s my favorite English setting, by far, and was the ubiquitous one in English parishes in Canada until the MOC took hold.

 

[ProVobis]

Mozart did it 10 years earlier “Variations on ‘Ah! vous dirai-je, Maman’” but the music had actually been published 21 years before Mozart did it and dates back to the early 1700s.

Thanks. I’ll put it on my favorites list.

 

[FAB]

Literally maybe three people in my church actually sing. 99% of the sound still comes from the choir. I’m good with that though.

You may be, but the Church isn’t. The instructions are that the people are the fully participate in the liturgy of the mass, that includes singing.

 

[FatHead]

You may be, but the Church isn’t. The instructions are that the people are the fully participate in the liturgy of the mass, that includes singing.

but thats the thing: you dont need to sing to participate. Otherwise, where would that put the graduale romanum? do you expect the congregation to sing the introit from the GR?

 

[FAB]

but thats the thing: you dont need to sing to participate. Otherwise, where would that put the graduale romanum? do you expect the congregation to sing the introit from the GR?

Actually, singing is part of full participation in the mass, or at least the OF. The new GIRM does instuct that the opening procession can be a chant and refers to the graduale romanum. If it is use and translated, then the faithful need to learn the chant as well.
In the OF the use of the chant of the mass parts is encouraged, which means the faitful will need to learn the all the settings of the mass.
At lease in my parish, the choir will work to teach the faithful the chants, we are planning to use them during advent and lent.

 

[YoungTradCath]

You may be, but the Church isn’t. The instructions are that the people are the fully participate in the liturgy of the mass, that includes singing

I’m pretty sure the Church and priests aren’t frantically worrying about the singing habits of parishes. And, as the above poster has noted, full active participation is more intrinsic than extrinsic. Otherwise, we run the risk of turning the mass into a field day where everyone has to “DO” something to feel fulfilled. Mass isn’t a school play where whoever has the biggest part is more of a “winner” than everyone else.

 

[Phemie]

Actually, singing is part of full participation in the mass, or at least the OF. The new GIRM does instuct that the opening procession can be a chant and refers to the graduale romanum. If it is use and translated, then the faithful need to learn the chant as well.
In the OF the use of the chant of the mass parts is encouraged, which means the faitful will need to learn the all the settings of the mass.
At lease in my parish, the choir will work to teach the faithful the chants, we are planning to use them during advent and lent.

According to the GIRM, the chants may be sung by the choir alone. The things that should be sung by all are the responses and the post-Communion hymn.

 

[whipp711]

Hmmmm…I wonder about folks that can’t sing worth a darn. Couldn’t carry a tune in a burlap bag if they used both hands. Would lightning strike them down for not participating fully in the mass by not singing?

Actually, I have a magnificent voice…thank you, thank you very much… but what if I just say the words?

 

[TimothyH]

Hmmmm…I wonder about folks that can’t sing worth a darn. Couldn’t carry a tune in a burlap bag if they used both hands. Would lightning strike them down for not participating fully in the mass by not singing?

Actually, I have a magnificent voice…thank you, thank you very much… but what if I just say the words?

I have a lousy, loud, baritone voice. I am going to come to your parish, stand next to you and sing.

I’m gonna raise my hands at every prayer like some evangelical guy at a guitar and tambourine service.

I’m gonna hold your hand during the Our Father and sing it… Our Faaaather, who aaaart in he-eh-eh-vun… hallowed beee thyyyy naaaame. Thy kingdom coooooome. Thy will be doooone, on earth as it is in he-eh-vun. Giiiive us this day our daaaaily breeeead, and forgiiiive us our trespasseeees, as we forgive thooooose who trespass a-ge-en-stus. . Lead us not in-to-tem-ta-ay-shun, but de-liv-er us from eeee-eee-vil.

I’m gonna hug you during the sign of peace. Yep, a big bear hug.

I hope they play “Dance, Dance, wherever you may be” or whatever it is called after communion.

Then, when we all line up to greet the priest aftr mass, I’m gonna get in front of you in line and ask him all kinds of questions and to bless like fifty rosaries and pictures of my kids and such.

Magnificent voice, eh? As good as the guy in this video? vh1.com/video/squirrel-nut-zippers/10096/hell.jhtml



-Tim-

 

[FAB]

According to the GIRM, the chants may be sung by the choir alone. The things that should be sung by all are the responses and the post-Communion hymn.

The choir, cantor or songleader leads the chant, they are not the only responder.
From the GIRM

1. This **chant is sung **alternately by the choir and the people or similarly by a cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, there are four options for the Entrance Chant: (1) the antiphon from the Missal or the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum, as set to music there or in another setting; (2) the antiphon and Psalm of the Graduale Simplex for the liturgical time; (3) a chant from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including Psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) another liturgical chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop

 

[whipp711]

I have a lousy, loud, baritone voice. I am going to come to your parish, stand next to you and sing.

I’m gonna raise my hands at every prayer like some evangelical guy at a guitar and tambourine service.

I’m gonna hold your hand during the Our Father and sing it… Our Faaaather, who aaaart in he-eh-eh-vun… hallowed beee thyyyy naaaame. Thy kingdom coooooome. Thy will be doooone, on earth as it is in he-eh-vun. Giiiive us this day our daaaaily breeeead, and forgiiiive us our trespasseeees, as we forgive thooooose who trespass a-ge-en-stus. . Lead us not in-to-tem-ta-ay-shun, but de-liv-er us from eeee-eee-vil.

I’m gonna hug you during the sign of peace. Yep, a big bear hug.

I hope they play “Dance, Dance, wherever you may be” or whatever it is called after communion.

Then, when we all line up to greet the priest aftr mass, I’m gonna get in front of you in line and ask him all kinds of questions and to bless like fifty rosaries and pictures of my kids and such.

Magnificent voice, eh? As good as the guy in this video? vh1.com/video/squirrel-nut-zippers/10096/hell.jhtml



-Tim-

LOL…srsly…almost shot soda out my nose on to the keyboard.