New Guide Recommends Faithful Catholic Colleges

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I’m not sure if that is a criteria or not, since I looked on Notre Dame’s website and their M.A. in Theology has no language requirements either, but those receiving Master in Theological Studies does require intensive study in languages. Would you say that is a criteria to make the program less academically rigorous, or is Notre Dame exempt because of the name?

The Master of Arts degree has a different purpose than the Master in Theological Studies which seems to be for those pursuing a Ph.D. So I feel two different degree intentions are being compared. I did not major in Theology, but just from looking at the websites I think Franciscan may have a different intention with their program and maybe that’s where some of the confusion might have come in. Bachelor Degree programs are different than Graduate Programs, and once again I think two different degrees and intentions are being compared. Good people come out of both colleges, they can come out of anywhere! And that’s one of the great things about being Catholic, is that it’s everywhere.
 
Susanna711 said:
I’m not sure if that is a criteria or not, since I looked on Notre Dame’s website and their M.A. in Theology has no language requirements either, but those receiving Master in Theological Studies does require intensive study in languages. Would you say that is a criteria to make the program less academically rigorous, or is Notre Dame exempt because of the name?
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Yes, I think the MA at Notre Dame is less academically rigorous compared to the other Theology degrees offered there:
Master of Arts students receive a terminal degree in theology after learning about the classical areas of theological inquiry and acquiring a level of expertise in one of those areas. Recipients of the M.A. are well-suited to serve in valuable roles such as high school religious education, parish and diocesan ministries, and health care and social work ministries.
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But, also, recall that I said that lack of a language requirement might be an indicator that the program is less rigorous than a school that does require a language.

Here’s my point Susanna: some schools are better than others. Even were we to look at only hard-core-absolutely-faithful-Catholic-to-the-bones-schools – there should be a ranking of them. Now, the ranking might vary according to degree program, or the ranking might vary according to what one is seeking from the school. . .

Perhaps if one’s interest in theology isn’t overly academic it might not matter where one goes (so long as you get solid theology). But one’s interests might lean to a more academic (Doctoral work, etc) track. Or, in another field for instance, you might want a more rigorous or more notable school in order to maximize one’s career prospects. Again, I’m looking at this from the perspective of Catholics in the public square, transforming the temporal order – I’m thinking how beneficial it would be (to us and to the graduates themselves) to have Catholic doctors from the best Med Schools and Catholic lawyers from the best law schools, etc.

I’ll just note (please believe me!) that I’m not putting Franciscan down and I don’t have anything against the city on the hill. I just can understand JKSoren’s point that all the wonderful things that Franciscan has going for it doesn’t mean necessarily that it is a great school, qua school, if you know what I mean.

VC
 
Verbum_Caro said:
Yes, I think the MA at Notre Dame is less academically rigorous compared to the other Theology degrees offered there: But, also, recall that I said that lack of a language requirement might be an indicator that the program is less rigorous than a school that does require a language.

VC
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I have my MA in theology from Notre Dame (and an additional MA in theology from a seminary). I can tell you that the MA from ND is pretty rigorous. The difference between the MA and the Master of Theological Studies at ND is that the latter is geared for those preparing for doctoral work. The MA is geared toward those going into specific parish ministry, such as a DRE or Youth Minister, teaching at the HS level, or going into work in a diocesan office. I specialized in liturgical studies and had many priests in my courses who were working in diocesan worship offices. Both my MAs did not require languages (which is great since I have never done well with languages). We had the same professors that teach in the MTS and MDiv courses. The work was difficult, but since the MA program is only offered during the summers, there is obviously less research involved. But squeezing a full semester into three week modules makes for some pretty intense work. I found it more difficult than my previous MA from a seminary, which was done in full semesters. Also my MA from ND has opened more doors for me than my other MA.

I think what is important in looking for a school and a graduate program is to ask yourself what you ultimatly want after you graduate. I wasn’t looking to teach on a college level, although since I also have my DMin I can teach as an adjunct at one of our local Catholic colleges and have even taught lay students and diaconate candidates students at our seminary. But for the work that I do in the parish and for the diocese, my MA serves me very well. Since I am not doing academic aresearch, I don’t really have the need for the languages. I have come across some people with the MA in theology from Franciscan who are doing parish work and are very happy with their education as it prepared them for what they are doing. That is all that is really important. Again, does the degree prepare you for what you want to do? If it does, then it is a good program for you.
 
Joannm said:
does the degree prepare you for what you want to do? If it does, then it is a good program for you.
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Thanks Joan, that about sums it up for me too!

Congratulations on your degree. By the way, I hope I didn’t give you the impression that I think the ND degree isn’t rigorous. I think ND must have an excellent theology program.

VC
 
I have found the comments made here very interesting, and I am thankful for the thoughts. I googled “faithful Catholic universities” in an attempt to narrow down my daughter’s choices, and found your conversation. I will discuss with her what you have said regarding Franciscan. I do want to put in my support about what the other poster said regarding Teacher Assistants. I went to a large Texas University 20ish years ago, and found that many classes were taught completely by TAs. This was at the University of Texas. PS- Would not recommend sending kids there! :eek:
 
I’ll put in a plug for Thomas Aquinas College in California, and Wyoming Catholic College (*that place looks interesting!)

*VC
 
abort73catholic said:
Just curious, but thoughts on Benedictine College in Atchison, Kansas? I visited in July and fell in love with the place almost instantly…I felt completely “at home” there. I applied and am now enrolled for the fall of 2010 as an International Studies/Foreign Languages double major. I’ve never heard any negative things about the place…from current students or alumni, though I’m sure there are students who didn’t enjoy their experience.

I’m not going to change my mind, so please don’t think that you can. I just wanted to hear some honest thoughts, observations, etc.

Thanks. 🙂
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I’m a native of Atchison Kansas, and I go to BC. I was unsure about religion when I went there, didn’t go to church and had many atheist friends,.

I went to BC, and many students to go Mass every day! :eek: And it’s my senior year now and I LOVE the Catholic faith and am in RCIA. Benedictine changed my life and I dread the thought of having gone to a non-Catholic school and not known the truth.

I’m music and accounting major there now. Wish I would have known, I’d have been a theology major there too. BC is a blessing; the bad part is the costs (I get a good scholarship though) and it’s on the small side, though it is growing and we’re going to add an academic building soon and we just built apartments for more dorm-space. But a small college in a small town (Atchison has about 11000 people) has it’s advantages too! Very close, personal environment, even (and especially) with the professors, which you don’t get at a big school.

I support your decisions to go to BC and I’ll answer any questions if you want to PM me. Btw Benedictine College has it’s own RCIA program that I’m enrolled in right now and I love it!

God bless
 
I completely agree that some programs at Catholic schools are more or less academically rigirous, but I really wanted to make the point that just because you have not studied Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, Hebrew, or whatever else during your Master’s degree does not mean you will not get a Ph.D. You will aquire it if you need it. The education at Franciscan is not bad, it just does not meet everyone’s needs, and I 100% realize that. It would never meet the needs of some of my friends or husband either. It happened to fit me pretty well though, and it upsets me to see it put down with so little research into some of its programs, and the intentions of the program. Some of the best people in their field did not come from a school with a prestigious name, and that’s my biggest point. Whether they are secular, Catholic, or whatever. I think if you are looking at colleges/graduate programs, and sold on the name you are making a big mistake, because there’s more to it than that.
 
I also do not agree with letting go of your morals to attend a school with a prestigious name. If you lose sight of the Church’s teaching, morality, and virtue to adhere to what is popular where will the Church go next? Perhaps the value of this guide is not so much to tell which colleges have great academics, but to let the public know which colleges are the most faithful. And as Catholics isn’t that the most important thing? To live a life of Faith and virtue? To have a respect for the hierarchy of the Church and what it teaches? Diplomas don’t get you to heaven, and I would think if you are looking for an MA in Theology you would choose the most Faithful Catholic college because you will be a leader, you will be who people listen to. Looking at the guide you will fine that the most Faithful colleges are discussed, not the most academically elite.
 
Susanna711 said:
I also do not agree with letting go of your morals to attend a school with a prestigious name. If you lose sight of the Church’s teaching, morality, and virtue to adhere to what is popular where will the Church go next? Perhaps the value of this guide is not so much to tell which colleges have great academics, but to let the public know which colleges are the most faithful. And as Catholics isn’t that the most important thing? To live a life of Faith and virtue? To have a respect for the hierarchy of the Church and what it teaches? Diplomas don’t get you to heaven, and I would think if you are looking for an MA in Theology you would choose the most Faithful Catholic college because you will be a leader, you will be who people listen to. Looking at the guide you will fine that the most Faithful colleges are discussed, not the most academically elite.
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I would make a distinction in what you’re saying. First, is the degree in theology? If so, then I agree that the theology program should be one which promotes scholarship that is faithful to the Magisterium. But if the degree is in liberal arts or science or business or engineering, I think it is perfectly acceptable to go to Harvard or West Point or Notre Dame or Georgetown. Non-Catholic schools, and Catholic schools which have lost their ‘orthodoxical credibility’ are spiritual battlegrounds as it were, so it’s a good thing for faithful, catechized young Catholics to bolster Catholic representation and help spread the Word. That’s also part of our faith. 👍
 
I believe more so than in any other major, if you are going to major in Theology you should go to a school that adheres strictly to the Church’s teaching. Once again I did not major in Theology and my M.A. is not in Theology either. I majored in British and American Literature, and my M.A. is in English Writing. But I think even liberal arts majors could greatly benefit from attending a University/College that adheres to the Church’s teaching.

Often within literature you read contraversial texts. I am not one to shy away from them, but I am one to make sure that those texts are put into their proper contexts. You study Queer Theory, Gender Theories, and other topics that most people never would. When reading a work you might discuss all of the elements of voodoo within it, and where it appears and its imprortance to the story. If you do not have a professor to morally guide you along the way, then I think you could easily stray. I think as an eighteen-year-old, you may or may not have the tools to read these texts. You may/may not interprate them in a very misguided way under a professor who may have all the education in the world, but is not concerned with the salvation of his/her students. The same goes for psychology, phylisophy, and drama. I transfered to the University I graduated from, and I transfered from a small, private, Catholic college in the Midwest. Often in drama productions there were explicit references to certain topics, it was okay to do the avant garde and often praised, and more. There was no moral line, and I think you have to be pretty careful that you yourself are not crossing one.

I think it is impossible for a professor not to put their two cents into a class, so I want to make sure that his/her two cents are in line with my morality. I’m sure someone could provide an arguement that I am weak in my Faith then if I can’t go anywhere else, but why test it? Why push it as a college freshman when you already grapple with so much?
If you are a liberal arts major, you take a liberal arts curriculum. You take Theology, Phylisophy, Science, Math, History, and more. I want to make sure that my theology course is taught by someone who will morally guide me, or my biology class doesn’t focus on population control as being a viable option for any climate problems. Not every Catholic College has every major, so of course a public/private college is a great option! It’s a great option anyway! If someone does choose a faithful Catholic college they will read what someone else does, they will cover what everyone else does in their classes, they can go to graduate school/medical school/law school ect. . .but the difference is that they will be guided by the teachings of the Church, their instructors will adhere to that hierarchy.
 
AnotherVoice said:
Havard,

Yes, that was the agreement. Thank you.
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Well that statement didn’t say Notre Dame “opted out” of the Church which you seemed to say.

Plus, let’s not freeze history, Notre Dame and its Bishop are in full agreement about the way ND follows Ex Corde Ecclesia. The Bishop has not restricted or limited any Theology faculty from teaching.
 
diggerdomer said:
Well that statement didn’t say Notre Dame “opted out” of the Church which you seemed to say.

Plus, let’s not freeze history, Notre Dame and its Bishop are in full agreement about the way ND follows Ex Corde Ecclesia. The Bishop has not restricted or limited any Theology faculty from teaching.
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Sorry to disagree, the signers of the “Land O’ Lakes” document contend that teaching and research at their colleges and universities should be under the control of the faculty and the administration and independent from any outside body including the teaching authority of the Catholic Church or Magisterium. If you check the schools on the guide of faithful colleges, you will see they acknowledge being subject to the teaching authority of the Church and the Magisterium. Does Notre Dame make such an acknowledgement?

Also, please do not confuse a lack of public action on the part of the Bishop as proof of anything. There are “pro-choice nuns” running around that have not been subject to public action by Bishops. You state that Notre Dame and the Bishop are in full agreement about the way Ex Corde Ecclesia is being followed by Notre Dame. Since, to the best of my knowledge, Notre Dame does not require its theology faculty to submit to the Mandatum set forth in Ex Corde Ecclesia, I am unclear how full agreement came about. But I hope that turns out to be the case and they are now requiring that of their faculty.

I would love to see Notre Dame at the top of the list of faithful Catholic colleges, but they made decisions which preclude even being mentioned.
 
diggerdomer said:
Well that statement didn’t say Notre Dame “opted out” of the Church which you seemed to say.

Plus, let’s not freeze history, Notre Dame and its Bishop are in full agreement about the way ND follows Ex Corde Ecclesia. The Bishop has not restricted or limited any Theology faculty from teaching.
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It’s been a few years since I was on the Notre Dame campus now, so I’m by no means an insider. But Charlie Rice disagrees, and Charlie Rice is one of the real Catholic heroes at Notre Dame (in my opinion.) If you have time to read his editorial Bring Notre Dame Back, please do, and let me know if you think he’s wrong, and why.
 
Havard said:
It’s been a few years since I was on the Notre Dame campus now, so I’m by no means an insider. But Charlie Rice disagrees, and Charlie Rice is one of the real Catholic heroes at Notre Dame (in my opinion.) If you have time to read his editorial Bring Notre Dame Back, please do, and let me know if you think he’s wrong, and why.
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The fact is that Bishop D’Arcy has followed through on implementing the teaching of Ex Corde Ecclesia and no professors at ND have been prohibited to teach. Charles Rice does not deny that, does he? Do you?
 
Without conjecture about what Bishop D’Arcy may or may not have said; why not read his own statement. Here is a link to cut and paste:

diocesefwsb.org/2009/09/a-pastoral-reflection-on-the-controversy-at-notre-dame/

Several things were apparent to me as I re-read his statement:
  • He is exhibiting a high degree of self control and charity.
  • He has a great deal of respect for Dr. Cavadini, chair of the Theology department.
  • Many of the faulty have directly sought his Mandatum to teach Theology within his diocese.
  • He seems to view Notre Dame’s compliance with Ex Corde Ecclesiae as an open question.
Regarding the list of faithful catholic colleges, there should be very little left to be said about excluding those schools that do not accept the teaching authority of the church.
 
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