New Guide Recommends Faithful Catholic Colleges

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diggerdomer said:
The fact is that Bishop D’Arcy has followed through on implementing the teaching of Ex Corde Ecclesia and no professors at ND have been prohibited to teach. Charles Rice does not deny that, does he? Do you?
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Like I said, I’m no longer a campus insider, I graduated 10 years ago. But I respect Charlie Rice a great deal and it appears he’s not convinced that Ex Corde is being applied at ND to the extent that it should be. AnotherVoice’s comment puts forth a plausible interpretation of Bishop D’Arcy’s perspective.

Let me be clear: I don’t want ND to be falling short in this regard, I am rooting for my alma mater. But I won’t declare victory or defeat without knowing the full story, so for the time being I am just expressing concern over what I have been hearing. I am still hopeful!
 
I think one’s experience with any Catholic college may be a function of which program of study you choose. Catholic colleges in general have a hard time hiring people in the high salary fields such as business and computer science. New Ph.Ds in these fields often start out at over $100,000 per year. A catholic college that pays new Ph.Ds $40,000 is a going to have few good choices. This could explain the prevalence of people with masters degrees and even nutty people with masters degrees.
 
diggerdomer said:
Nope, it gave me a page not found error.
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Sorry about that, not sure what I did to this last link. Please try the first link I posted yesterday, it will take you to the Bishop’s statement on the diocese web site. I tested it and it works.
 
AnotherVoice said:
Sorry about that, not sure what I did to this last link. Please try the first link I posted yesterday, it will take you to the Bishop’s statement on the diocese web site. I tested it and it works.
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I already read that, when you first posted, and prior to my post that you responded to.
 
I’m not sure which college starts out a professor at $100,000. That is not a common practice actually, despite what field you’re in. A few members of my family teach in higher ed. in subjects such as business at a public college, and they do not make $100,000. I’m not sure where you got the information. The most I’ve seen at a public university is about $60,000. When you apply for a job and have a Master’s degree, it’s not like a department will just take the first person that applied. You go through interview after interview, review, get questioned over and over again on everything from your subject matter to your teaching philosophy. Even with a Master’s degree, it’s really not that easy to get a teaching job. Part of the problem may be that Ph.d’s and Master’s degree candidates do not get training in teaching, pedagogy, or philosophy, and perhaps if you want to go into teaching at the higher ed. level you should be required to take a class?
 
diggerdomer said:
I already read that, when you first posted, and prior to my post that you responded to.
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If after reading the Bishop’s statement you still did not see a conflict between the administration at Notre Dame and the Bishop over Land O’ Lakes vs. Ex Corde Ecclesiae; I can only wish you well.
 
JKSoren is not an outlier!

Or at least, he has many other outliers out there with him that have not caught the Franciscan fever. I too came to the FUS because of the tales of it being a Catholic haven where young people were “true” Catholics, and Scott Hahn taught, and the teachers didn’t make you learn stuff that was against Church teaching.
After attending, I learned that FUS is really not all it is cracked up to be. Yes, those things I heard of were true, there are many faithful Catholics that attend, and Scott Hahn really does teach there, and the teachers are (mostly) faithful to the Truth, BUT it is also mediocre academically and it has all of the things that make it just another typical college. If you take off the rose colored glasses, you’ll see and hear about students doing things you didn’t want to know. We’re talking drugs, abortions, alcohol-related deaths. And I had just come from a huge public university trying to get away from all of that. But then I realized, there is no escape. EVERYONE sins. Even Franciscan students. It just hurt so much more because of the tall tales about the school being a safe haven. It’s probably under vicious attack from Satan because of its Catholic identity.
Don’t get me wrong, Franciscan does change people’s lives and help others in their faith— but a word to the wise— if you have an opportunity to go to a academically rigorous school and you research and discover a nice little pocket of a Catholic community there— go for it.

And to whoever said Franciscan was beautiful, did you mean in a spiritual way? Have you ever been to Steubenville, Ohio???
 
I didn’t catch the Franciscan “fever” either. There was drinking, probably innapropriate behavior, and more that went on at Franciscan. I was (and still am) under the impression that you don’t chose to go to Franciscan because you are perfect, you go there to try to be better. (at least in some cases). Nobody I know there was perfect, and my friends and I did our own thing and were very happy about it. You can get involved in your Faith as much as you want there, you can go to as many Festivals of Praise and Worship as you want, and you can chose what you do with your Friday night. Like at any other college. Franciscan doesn’t take bad choices away from you, and you don’t automatically choose only good activities there. YOU make the choice, the University does NOT do it for you, they just offer you an ample amount of positive choices and activities that center around the Catholic Faith.

I will stand up for my education. I will NOT have anyone tell me I received an average education there, because I did not. I chose to make it what it is. I got into the graduate school of my choice, and was extremely happy with my choices in education thus far. I’m sorry you did not and you feel like that, but maybe your expectations were too high, maybe you expected everything from a University that did not promise everything. I’m not sure what major you chose, but I can assure anyone that my major was in line with the Church; and the professors.

Sometimes I would look out my window at the Ohio River and think how beautiful it all was. The town isn’t the greatest looking, but some of the nature around the University is. If you went to a college, didn’t get the classes you wanted, didn’t get the job you wanted afterwards, or didn’t get something else, maybe look inside yourself to see if something could have been done differently before you begin blaming something else. I work in college admissions right now as I’m finishing my education, and I can tell you that the ones who will succeed are those who grab the oppurtunities in front of them-NOT the ones who went to the most “academically elite” college, or the ones who had the best grades, or a number of other criteria. If you want to succeed in your Faith you don’t need to sell out to the college with the best name. Understand the mission of the University/college you choose, the intent of the program, tour the college, talk to people there, BEFORE you go. Once again I won’t have my education and hard work put down, I’m sorry anyone had a poor experience at any University they went to, but when is it time to get over it?
 
Susanna711 said:
I’m not sure which college starts out a professor at $100,000. That is not a common practice actually, despite what field you’re in. A few members of my family teach in higher ed. in subjects such as business at a public college, and they do not make $100,000. I’m not sure where you got the information. The most I’ve seen at a public university is about $60,000. When you apply for a job and have a Master’s degree, it’s not like a department will just take the first person that applied. You go through interview after interview, review, get questioned over and over again on everything from your subject matter to your teaching philosophy. Even with a Master’s degree, it’s really not that easy to get a teaching job. Part of the problem may be that Ph.d’s and Master’s degree candidates do not get training in teaching, pedagogy, or philosophy, and perhaps if you want to go into teaching at the higher ed. level you should be required to take a class?
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Here is a link to a blog which gives the average starting salaries for accounting and finance professors:

financialrounds.blogspot.com/2007/01/salaries-for-finance-and-business.html

These types of salaries do put places like Steubenville at a disadvantage.
 
John Paul the Great in San Diego–what a place! Located in a business park, the tiny campus belies the big things happening within. The A/V sophomores produced the Prop 8 TV commercials, flawlessly. Very limited curricula at present, but what they do, they do well. Best of all, is the dedication to the Church as an integral part of students’ lives.
 
I did read the average salaries that the “unknown professor” posted. But by the end of the posting he said salaries were all across the board, so I don’t understand where he is taking his average from then. Is it East Coast schools, Ivy League, or Public Universities? Or is it across the nation because he seems to discount his point by the end of the blog. Also the information you gave is from a personal blog, without citations of where the writer got the information in the first place I do agree that Franciscan University of Steubenville professors probably make far less than $100,000 a year.

But you are under the assumption that the only way to attract quality professors is with money. Did you ever think that some professors at these schools have the jobs they do for reasons other than money? And you are saying that the only schools with quality business programs are the ones that pay their professors the most. If you make that arguement then many teachers at Parachorial schools could be terrible teachers because they don’t get paid the highest amount. Also I can cite example after example of charter schools that tried to pay teachers a high amount in the hopes that students would achieve more. Paying teachers high salaries didn’t work, since students still showed an average amount of achievement. You’re making money the root cause of many reasons why people go into teaching, and that the amount the professor is paid determines whether or not they will be a good professor or part of a quality program? I disagree with you on your point that quality business programs only come from when a professor receives a high salary.
 
One program that is so new that it may not have been considered for inclusion in that edition of the Newman Guide is the Augustine Institute in Denver. It offers both on campus and distance programs, and follows Ex Corde Ecclesiae. It’s worth checking out.
 
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