New Heaven AND New Earth... Animal Souls

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El_PAso

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So Listening to Fr. Barbour on CA Live and other apologists stress Catholic apologetics states animal souls perish at animals death. Maybe… seems to be a logic puzzle based on apologetic evidence but precludes God can do as He sees fit.

But what of the New Earth? Will it be a barren desert? If a plant makes it that means animals etc… Earth is defined by water air fire geology plants and animals at its most basic

I suppose when I think in this manner I get confused as to where we will be (if we make it! :D) New Heaven or New Earth?

Probably shouldn’t ponder such matter after a long drive but there it is!

Thanks,

EP
 
El_PAso said:
So Listening to Fr. Barbour on CA Live and other apologists stress Catholic apologetics states animal souls perish at animals death.
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Yes, I hate it when people speculate about things they cannot possible know and present it as knowledge.
 
El_PAso said:
So Listening to Fr. Barbour on CA Live and other apologists stress Catholic apologetics states animal souls perish at animals death.
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Other Catholic authorities disagree. For example, Cardinal Mahony said that cats go to a heaven. Also the Bible says that there are horses in heaven: Revelation 19:11.- 17. Rev 5:13. And there is Isa 65:25.
 
See how long your dog can survive without corrupting other matter. Then get back to me about how what I said is “speculation”.

Unlike humans, the animal life is all that irrational animals have.
 
"Animal life requires corruption for its operation. "

“Unlike humans, the animal life is all that irrational animals have.”

This IS the speculation! And commits the error of limiting God who can make rocks speak!

Aquinas blew it with ensoulment as well. Aquinas was not infallible. He used logic in a novel way but not with mathematical precision.

It is speculation on both sides of the argument. We’re not quite sure what’s gonna happen hence; faith!

This was more about New Earth but I find it endlessly irksome how so many claim with mathematical certainty no animals in Heaven when the reality is we have ZERO evidence either way. The horses in Revelation etc may be symbolic.

But again New Earth will either be a barren ball of dirt like the moon or it will have abundant life, animals and plants living in harmony.

My advice to apologists stick to the “facts” you sound prideful and make us doubt your other claims when state with such certainty when it’s CLEAR you don’t know with any degree of certainty.
 
No Doctor of the Church is infallible, but when all or nearly all the ones who’ve discussed something agree, I’ll stick with them over people on the internet who have no counter-arguments.
 
Corrupting other matter? In some way that humans don’t?
 
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Sure!

But it’s incumbent on us as Christians to discern.

You’re stance would be ensoulment at 40-80 days after conception based on Aquinas. Nothing has necessarily proven this right or wrong yet we KNOW it’s wrong.

Re: animal souls; admit it no one knows. YET we do KNOW trying to place logic rules on God is folly.

There’s no consensus on this matter and as stated pure speculation on both sides.

EP
 
The difference is that there’s more to humans than our animal nature, so we can continue even after it has ceased.
 
Arkansan said:
Animal life requires corruption for its operation.
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An interesting point. I don’t think it’s correct, but I have made an earnest attempt to follow Aquinas’ reasoning in the article you linked. I don’t quite follow it, and therefore I don’t quite understand how you infer from the article that animal life requires corruption while human life (as we know it now) presumably doesn’t.

It seems to me that Aquinas is equating corruption to the decay of a physical body. But physical human bodies also decay, so I don’t see how this is a basis for distinguishing between plants and men.

EDIT: I missed your replies to Shakuhachi.
Arkansan said:
See how long your dog can survive without corrupting other matter.
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Arkansan said:
The difference is that there’s more to humans than our animal nature, so we can continue even after it has ceased.
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Okay, but that’s different from saying that “animal life requires corruption for its operation”, by which you seemed to imply that human life does not.
 
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The correlation between “more to humans” and continuing on is speculative.
There is more to an ape than to a worm. Does more of an ape continue on than a worm?
 
At present, humans and other animals must both corrupt other matter to survive. The difference is that the animal life is secondary for humans, our primary purpose is to know and love God. Consequently, there will still be reason for humans to exist even after corruption is abolished from the world. However, there will no longer be any reason for irrational animals to exist, since the animal life is their primary purpose.
 
No creature’s telos is to benefit another creature. Serving human needs is why God made animals, but doing so isn’t good for the animals.

In any case, we won’t need animals after the Ressurection.
 
Any possibility that animals have a purpose to glorify God independent of human need?
 
Well, here’s another theological opinion, but he qualifies it thusly.

 
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