New idea, unwelcoming

[PetraG]

Mary,
It was reported someone on the council said “ you aren’t from here?” That was enough plus the body language. The attitude was all wrong. We don’t want any new ideas. We have been doing it this way for years!

There is no excuse for anyone making a presentation to the parish council to come away with anything but a feeling of being appreciated for the effort made.

First off, no, someone that a parish council allows to make a presentation isn’t actually entitled to be “made to feel” some certain way about how it went. That’s not realistic. Listeners don’t have unlimited power to implant feelings in us as we communicate to them, particularly if we are total strangers to them.

For instance, saying “so you aren’t from here?” could possibly mean the fellow making the pitch doesn’t know the congregation very well. Perhaps the council asked about what the feedback had been from this person or that who was (for instance) on the evangelization committee and the presenter honestly didn’t know who that was. Asking someone in RCIA whether or not they are from the parish–and I can tell you that there are spouses who are in parishes for a very long time before starting RCIA–can clear up a lot in terms of why the presenter hasn’t done things that someone who knew the players in the parish would know to do.

 

[PatK63]

I never said they had to approve only be good kind host!

 

[TheLittleLady]

In my experiences, during Instruction for RCIA various groups in the parish talk to those coming into the Church about what ministries, volunteer opportunities exist. There are some ministries that cannot be joined until the person is received into the Church, others where they can jump in during the instruction period (choir, ushers, grounds, social justice, etc.)

A Catechumen asking to run a brand new ministry would not make it past pastor in my experience. Perhaps this pastor is inexperienced and did not know how to say “no, let’s wait”? In my experience those wanting to do things would be introduced to those already doing that sort of ministry and mentored for awhile.

As radio is a medium that brings a more mature listener, those old 50+ year olds are who you want to get on board. Notice that most of the “popular” priests do not have radio programs anymore, it is podcasts and videos (Fr Mike Schmitz, Bishop Barron, even Michael Voris and Fr Chad Ripperger) use new media.

 

[PetraG]

I never said they had to approve only be good kind host!

I fail to see how asking "so you aren’t from here?” is an unkind question, not when it is coming from someone who has to decide whether or not you’re suited for what is something of a catechetical role.

I agree with you that this presenter probably only meant to be helpful and did not dream that his idea could be taken as pretentious or implying he wanted to jump into a position where he was teaching the faith to the rest of the parish even though he wasn’t through RCIA himself. He saw Relevant Radio as the teacher and undoubtedly saw himself more as a sherpa than anything else–someone willing to do unglamorous grunt work for a good program. Having said that, if he said that the role of “ambassador” that he was telling the parish council about involved “giving seminars,” I would not blame them if they got that impression.

Again, if this happened to a friend I’d suggest he try to put a charitable interpretation on everything said, don’t get discouraged, but do what he could to learn from the experience and by that to perhaps get a better response next time.

 

[PatK63]

I take it you have never been an outsider. It least you seem to have no empathy for the O.P.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Anyone have any suggestions?

I have no suggestions but for what it’s worth I would not be to thrilled about a relevant radio anything at my parish. Not because I don’t like relevant radio but because, in my humble opinion relevant radio is nowhere near as good as when it was immaculate heart radio. It lost all it’s best programs when the name changed such as; Catholic answers, Mother Mariam, The Terry and Jesse show. It’s just not the same as it use to be. Maybe a lot of those folks feel the same way?

 

[PetraG]

I take it you have never been an outsider. It least you seem to have no empathy for the O.P.

No, I’m currently an “outsider,” being new to my parish. It seems to me that the resolve to seek to understand at least as much as to be understood has never steered me wrong. It is a better path to contentment than to denigrate people who don’t react to me as I would have liked them to react. I can’t control how others react to me, but I can control how I respond to their reactions.

Besides, even if they’re totally in the wrong, people respond favorably when you are charitable and patient when you had every right to be turned off and shut down. It lets them know they can trust you to see every side of how they are and to love them all the same.

 

[poche]

I have a suggestion for the OP. Don’t give up. Be respectful of the other people even when they are not respectful toward you. If it is God’s will for you then it will come about in spite of those who oppose you.
St Teresa of Avila had a whole city opposed to her when she founded St Joseph Convent. But in the end she won out.

 

[warrior18]

Great advice. I will pass it on to our Candidate and my friend in RCIA. Fortitude, Counsel, Understanding, Knowledge… sounds like these gifts from the H.S. will benefit greatly for this individual when we welcome him officially into the Catholic Faith later this September. May we all learn and become more charitable with each other as we all continue to grow in God’s love in the world, as well as in this cyber world.

 

[Peeps]

This response he got is natural for any type of organization, whether a church, a club, a company or a military unit.

The OP said, “Nobody seemed to want to make eye contact with me and people were pretty silent.”

I agree with you that this is a natural response for any type of organization…a club, a company, or a military unit…’

…but a CHURCH is not any of these organizations. A Church is part of the Family of God.

Families don’t give incoming family members the silent treatment and refuse to make eye contact. They welcome people into their family and treat them as friends and listen to their comments.

Certainly they can listen to the presentation and then tell the presenter that they appreciate the idea, and they would like to wait until he has become a full member of the parish, and then re-visit the idea. That’s reasonable.

But it’s not reasonable to treat the RCIA candidate as a complete stranger and it’s not wise to reject their ideas without even a study.

If the RCIA candidate was suggesting some slightly weird idea like a balloon rally in the parish parking lot (expensive, insurance risks, etc.), I can understand rejecting the idea–kindly, not rudely.

But honestly, it’s not like Relevant Radio is something new and weird. Before we became Catholic in 2004, my husband was listening to it. And my father-in-law, who was hostile towards Catholics back in 2004, is now a faithful listener and has professed interest in becoming Catholic. Relevant Radio does GOOD WORK in the Catholic Church, and the Family of God should not dismiss it without some serious study.

Anyway, I say that family should treat newcomers with respect and kindness. The Church is not a “company.”

 

[GordonP]

Anyway, I say that family should treat newcomers with respect and kindness. The Church is not a “company.”

I think you’re a bit off base there.

I don’t see how he was treated uncharitably. He made a huge faux pas, and that, of course, did make people feel uncomfortable. They basically decided to overlook it and move on to other business.

The person who made the comment about not being from around here was being charitable in reminding the OP’s friend that he had stepped out of bounds, and it was rather diplomatic, and kind.

As for his proposal about the radio station, the council has no moral obligation to give it serious study, and they are free to dismiss it if they wish. I don’t know where you came up with the idea that they had such an obligation.

 

[PetraG]

I think you’re a bit off base there.

I don’t see how he was treated uncharitably. He made a huge faux pas, and that, of course, did make people feel uncomfortable. They basically decided to overlook it and move on to other business.

The person who made the comment about not being from around here was being charitable in reminding the OP’s friend that he had stepped out of bounds, and it was rather diplomatic, and kind.

As for his proposal about the radio station, the council has no moral obligation to give it serious study, and they are free to dismiss it if they wish. I don’t know where you came up with the idea that they had such an obligation.

I think characterizing this as a “huge faux pas” on either side is blowing the whole matter out of proportion. Both sides could have been more graceful, but it is unlikely either meant harm or were showing any terrible lack of virtue. It is better that the fellow who made the pitch just learn going forward to maybe learn the lay of the land a little better going in, so he’s neither caught by surprise nor harms his opportunity to convince his audience. When he’s on parish council himself (not at all unlikely, if he doesn’t evade the need for capable people to volunteer), he’ll be armed with the knowledge of how it feels to come to a meeting like that as a new parishioner or an incoming Catholic. He’ll know both that it isn’t that serious and that it can feel very serious, indeed.

Any landing you walk away from is a good one. I don’t think he harmed his stature in the parish or anything like that. The best course is to let it go and figure that when he knows everyone a little better he’ll be able to take people’s faults with a few more grains of salt. The faults he’s talking about, both in himself and in the others, are typical faults in typical concentrations.

People stumble over concepts like “charity,” but it boils down to no less than being “good-natured.” That’s a habit of thinking, a virtue that can be practiced. It is harder when your feelings are hurt and I do not mean to invalidate the fellow who felt hurt. I mean that anyone with their feelings hurt is prone to give the painful experience importance all out of proportion to what it deserves in the big picture. It takes a super-natural grace to be good-natured when fallen nature prompts us to be peevish or sullen or stung, but letting go on the idea that it never hurts to rack up a big measure in the department of “measure you measure with will be measured to you” department.

It also feels a lot better, once you succeed in doing it. Life’s twists and turns and the typical moments of gracelessness that most of us leave littered behind us have far less power to upset your peace of mind.

 

[CathoRick]

He should hold off on taking any roles in the parish until he is actually a member, and has given himself plenty of time to settle in and acclimate to the specific prevailing culture of the group, and about their actual needs and preferences.

I think this is the best advice you’ll ever get out of this thread OP. I’m a recent convert who was under the informal instruction of my parish’s RCIA coordinator not so long ago, and I couldn’t imagine taking a pivotal role in the Church while being non-Catholic. Even now as a Catholic, I still feel the need to take things slow, get to know those in my Church community more, and attend local Catholic events (adorations, book groups, etc.) before ever becoming a prominent voice within my Church.

I understand that it’s good to put yourself out there, but your friend jumped the gun in that regard, still being in RCIA and all. He’ll be taken much more seriously once he becomes Catholic and better known within the parish.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I think characterizing this as a “huge faux pas” on either side is blowing the whole matter out of proportion.

Completely agree, especially since we weren’t there to see exactly what happened and are going off one disgruntled person’s report.

Both sides could have been more graceful,

We don’t know this for sure. It may well be that both sides were actually pretty graceful/ tactful and there was just a huge failure to communicate due to a difference in communication styles, or one or both sides making some bad assumptions.

The problem with these stories being posted here about how somebody suggested an idea and the parish board (or pastor on a lot of other threads) shot it down is that we are only getting one side of the story, that of the person who is unhappy that their idea didn’t go over or that they didn’t get the response they wanted. It’s incomplete information at best and biased information at worst.

 

[Peeps]

I don’t know where you came up with the idea that they had such an obligation.

This is what I said:

Certainly they can listen to the presentation and then tell the presenter that they appreciate the idea, and they would like to wait until he has become a full member of the parish, and then re-visit the idea. That’s reasonable.

But it’s not reasonable to treat the RCIA candidate as a complete stranger and it’s not wise to reject their ideas without even a study.

If the RCIA candidate was suggesting some slightly weird idea like a balloon rally in the parish parking lot (expensive, insurance risks, etc.), I can understand rejecting the idea–kindly, not rudely.

I did NOT say that they have a “moral obligation to give it serious study.”

I said that it’s not wise to reject the ideas of an RCIA candidate without a serious study.

A “serious study” does not necessarily entail hours of time and lots of money. It could just mean that the pastor and other council members read through a few pamphlets, make a few phone calls (to the bishop, to other parishes, etc.), and say some prayers. What I’m saying is give the idea a second look, and don’t reject it just because the presenter of the idea is not a Catholic yet.

If Catholic parishes in the U.S. were growing by leaps and bounds and everyone is flocking to see what’s going on in St. Somebody’s Church and the media is buzzing about “revival” or “the Great Awakening Revisited”–then maybe we can reject outreach ideas without a second look.

But it’s just foolish to throw away ideas that may bring someone back to church or into a Catholic church for the first time.

One more point–I believe that in this time in American history, people’s social skills have become impaired due to the over-use of online communication. Many people have no clue about what defines a “faux pas,” and they believe that they can just speak up (which is what kids are constantly told to do in and out of school) and be listened to. I think allowances should be made, especially in a church family. Church isn’t a bloody country club, where “members only” are considered worth listening to and everyone else is riff raff

Again, the pastor and church council are under no “moral obligation” to accept every idea that is presented. But all of us are under moral obligation to treat people with kindness and courtesy, and all of us should be alert and open to ideas which could make a positive difference (or maybe not) in our parishes.

 

[warrior18]

UPDATE: The other side.
I learned last evening that after the presentation the parish board briefly discussed and everyone gave their approval. Yes, the priest could have just signed off of it without the board approval. Perhaps, being a leader, he thought it was good to have the board hear what’s going on, maybe even take the opportunity introduce them to the future member. When conversing about it, the RCIA instructor agreed that one board member had a scowl on his face, but not to read anything into it, as he always has a scowl, even when talking about something happy. So I think hearing the other side of things helps clear this up. My friend may have been venting to me afterwards, and this whole thing was blown out of proportion. However this was all good conversation nonetheless. I do appreciate everyone’s advice, insight, and charity. Some of us jump to conclusions more than others, as this thread makes apparent. Hopefully we can all learn something and continue to improve our likeness in the Lord. Thank you.

 

[tafan2]

Have not replied by now, but I would pass the following thought to one’s thread. Having spent many years serving on parish council, finance committee, school boards, etc, I would never judge a parish as unwelcoming based on those types of leadership meetings. Especially if one is presenting a sales pitch to them. This is how it goes: Meeting is supposed to start at 8, its a little late. A full agenda, and no one wants to be there past 9:30 or 10. Very likely there is something on the agenda that members think will take considerable time to discuss, is important to members, to them it is the whole point of that particular meeting’s purpose. Oh, wait a minute the pastor or chairperson or business manager says, we have a guest who is going to present to us the Diocese’s new plan to make sure XYZ. Everyone says hi, but they are not too excited, it goes on past 15 minutes and they are starting to look at their watches.

Anyways, you get the drift, not the most “welcoming” environement, through no fault of anyone.

ETA: an in my opinion, your friend did nothing wrong by being there and presenting his pitch to them, especially if the pastor invited him. He just should not read so much into their reactions.

 

[maryjk]

UPDATE: The other side.
I learned last evening that after the presentation the parish board briefly discussed and everyone gave their approval. Yes, the priest could have just signed off of it without the board approval. Perhaps, being a leader, he thought it was good to have the board hear what’s going on, maybe even take the opportunity introduce them to the future member. When conversing about it, the RCIA instructor agreed that one board member had a scowl on his face, but not to read anything into it, as he always has a scowl, even when talking about something happy. So I think hearing the other side of things helps clear this up. My friend may have been venting to me afterwards, and this whole thing was blown out of proportion. However this was all good conversation nonetheless. I do appreciate everyone’s advice, insight, and charity. Some of us jump to conclusions more than others, as this thread makes apparent. Hopefully we can all learn something and continue to improve our likeness in the Lord. Thank you.

It sounds like your friend misread the group.

 

[warrior18]

It sounds like your friend misread the group.

Yes indeed.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Glad there was a happy, if ironic, ending.

Hope your friend learned a lesson from this and also hope his new venture goes very well for him and hte parish.