New koran for non-muslims

[Sister_Amy]

Alright. If I may probe a little deeper…should Muslim groups get together and say “This is the only way to understand these verses and still understand Islam as a religion of Peace?” This would force the more violent people out of the fold, so to speak.

Muslims can’t, because it is known that there is more than one interpretation to every verse, that some verses are literal and others metaphorical, etc. If anyone said that only his interpretation was right, that would be a big clue that he was a fraud.

There is no “agenda” behind Islam, to make it seem one way or the other. The only objective is to understand it truthfully–what Allah revealed (i.e., the Qur’an) and what it means.

It is a dangerous question because it is more opinion that fact. I know that you like dealing with fact more than opinion

I’m not sure if I know what you’re talking about right now…

 

[Sister_Amy]

Except that Christians don’t claim the Bible is word for word from God. Christians (with the exception of Evengelicals) believe the Bible is divinely inspired. Muslims believe the Koran is perfect and inerrant.

So the Bible is open to interpretation and the Koran is not.

Believing that the Qur’an is perfect and inerrant doesn’t mean that human interpretations of it are perfect or inerrant.

 

[ralphinal]

Muslims can’t, because it is known that there is more than one interpretation to every verse, that some verses are literal and others metaphorical, etc. If anyone said that only his interpretation was right, that would be a big clue that he was a fraud.

Ok. Does that mean that it is acceptable to say that the verses in the Qur’an that calls for the destruction or subjugation of all non-Muslims CAN be taken literally with no problem?

There is no “agenda” behind Islam, to make it seem one way or the other. The only objective is to understand it truthfully–what Allah revealed (i.e., the Qur’an) and what it means.

Is it possible for a human to ever understand what God means without tainting it in some way?

I’m not sure if I know what you’re talking about right now…

I am just saying that you are more grounded than many posters on here. If you know, you say so, if you do not, you say so, and if it is opinion you mention that first. It also seems that you try to be more about the facts than about your feelings on the matter. All of that is admirable

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ok. Does that mean that it is acceptable to say that the verses in the Qur’an that calls for the destruction or subjugation of all non-Muslims CAN be taken literally with no problem?

Non-Muslims can open the Qur’an and read it, but how can they expect to declare the meaning of it when they haven’t bothered to study it in its context (and the writings of Muslims scholars about it?) People do take such passages literally but the problem is they take them out of context.

Is it possible for a human to ever understand what God means without tainting it in some way?

I don’t really think so. That’s why Muslims keep the Qur’an in Arabic.

I am just saying that you are more grounded than many posters on here. If you know, you say so, if you do not, you say so, and if it is opinion you mention that first. It also seems that you try to be more about the facts than about your feelings on the matter. All of that is admirable

Oh. Thanks.

 

[ralphinal]

Non-Muslims can open the Qur’an and read it, but how can they expect to declare the meaning of it when they haven’t bothered to study it in its context (and the writings of Muslims scholars about it?) People do take such passages literally but the problem is they take them out of context.

Oops. I should have said “by Muslims.” I will not argue that non-Muslims do not know the entire context.

I don’t really think so. That’s why Muslims keep the Qur’an in Arabic.

So, God can only be understood in Arabic? Is God an Arab?

Oh. Thanks.

Welcome

 

[Jacques_DeMolay]

Believing that the Qur’an is perfect and inerrant doesn’t mean that human interpretations of it are perfect or inerrant.

I think that the Koran CAN be translated (which is a form of interpretation) is proof that it is (the Koran) not perfect because if God had spoken to Muhammed then his divine words would echo in everyone and not just Muslims. God is all powerful and all perfect but yet his words were given in a language that at the time was somewhat obscure? Makes no sense.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Oops. I should have said “by Muslims.” I will not argue that non-Muslims do not know the entire context.

Sometimes Muslims are just as ignorant of it.

So, God can only be understood in Arabic? Is God an Arab?

No. But God’s words in the Qur’an are in Arabic. God did not reveal the Qur’an in any other language, except Arabic. Being an Arab doesn’t mean a person can fully understand the Qur’an however. But since nobody can properly translate it to encompass all possible meanings, any translation will be flawed. The original however, the Arabic, is perfect.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I think that the Koran CAN be translated (which is a form of interpretation) is proof that it is (the Koran) not perfect because if God had spoken to Muhammed then his divine words would echo in everyone and not just Muslims. God is all powerful and all perfect but yet his words were given in a language that at the time was somewhat obscure? Makes no sense.

The words of the Qur’an do echo in everyone. Don’t they?

People can try to interpret and translate the Qur’an, but Muslims would never it consider to be the authentic word of God.

 

[ralphinal]

Sometimes Muslims are just as ignorant of it.

I always seem to end up in this same dance. If these Muslims are ignorant, why not try to make them see how? Why do more Muslim groups not teach against this understanding publically?

No. But God’s words in the Qur’an are in Arabic. God did not reveal the Qur’an in any other language, except Arabic. Being an Arab doesn’t mean a person can fully understand the Qur’an however. But since nobody can properly translate it to encompass all possible meanings, any translation will be flawed. The original however, the Arabic, is perfect.

Ok

 

[Sister_Amy]

I always seem to end up in this same dance. If these Muslims are ignorant, why not try to make them see how? Why do more Muslim groups not teach against this understanding publically?

They do, man. All the time.

 

[ralphinal]

They do, man. All the time.

I guess that there are some folks that you just can’t get through to

 

[Reuben_J]

Since the Koran is word for word ANY translation is an interpretation. So any Koran in any language except Arabic is incorrect. The only way to understand Islam is to understand Arabic.
I don’t think Islam is evil, I just think it is wrong in many ways.

Since a Koran in English is incorrect according to Islamic understands, it is bogus and you might as well through those “english” Korans in the garbage.

You are right. The words of the Quran are supposed to be verbatim words of Allah. They were recited word per word. The words were spoken in Arabic or rather in Mohammad’s dialect. The Quran cannot be translated into other languages and retain its original meaning as there are Arabic words that do not have equivalent meaning in other language. The translation of the Quran is more an attempt of explanation of it.

This is of course a problem for us. If the words of Allah cannot be understood fully in other language then it is truly elusive to understand it correctly.

 

[Reuben_J]

Sometimes Muslims are just as ignorant of it.

No. But God’s words in the Qur’an are in Arabic. God did not reveal the Qur’an in any other language, except Arabic. Being an Arab doesn’t mean a person can fully understand the Qur’an however. But since nobody can properly translate it to encompass all possible meanings, any translation will be flawed. The original however, the Arabic, is perfect.

Ah, the Arabs cannot understand it and others can’t either. So much for the perfect words of Allah!

What’s the use if nobody can understand it pefectly?

 

[swariffin]

The only way to understand the Qur’an is to understand it in Arabic, but it is possible to understand Islam without being fluent in Arabic. Obviously.

Understanding Islam is understanding Quran. Islam cannot exist without Quran. No way you understand Islam without Quran. It is true that one must understand Arabic to know Quran completely, and to know Islam completely too. You cannot understand Islam fully based on translated Quran.

 

[swariffin]

Believing that the Qur’an is perfect and inerrant doesn’t mean that human interpretations of it are perfect or inerrant.

Agreed…So, what is the true Word of God, must be reflected from what the followers do in this world.

 

[Eucharisted]

Let me get the facts straight:

• The Qu’ran is in Arabic
• The Qu’ran in other languages is interpretation, not actual Qu’ran
• Interpretation of the Qu’ran is limited
• The senses of the Qu’ran is literal and metaphorical

So, when English speakers interpret an English Qu’ran, we’re interpreting an interpretation, which means our interpretation is flawed, and hence, our understanding of the Qu’ran is wrong?

Is this correct, or am I going coocoo for CocoPuffs?

 

[paarsurrey]

Understanding Islam is understanding Quran. Islam cannot exist without Quran. No way you understand Islam without Quran. It is true that one must understand Arabic to know Quran completely, and to know Islam completely too. You cannot understand Islam fully based on translated Quran.

Hi

It only means that where there are different understandings of a verse then one should refer to the original Arabic text to resolve it.

This facility in not available with the Catholics as they don’t have any original text from Jesus in the language he used to speak. In other words they have lost the original Word.

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Hi

It only means that where there are different understandings of a verse then one should refer to the original Arabic text to resolve it.

This facility in not available with the Catholics as they don’t have any original text from Jesus in the language he used to speak. In other words they have lost the original Word.

Thanks

The teaching of Jesus live within the teaching of the Apostles, and were strengthen by the Holy Spirit (another Hypostasis of God). When the time come, it was written. Those many copies of those writings (called Codices, plural of Codex) were indeed accurate to have no deviations. Many of those surviving codices were kept and preserved.

Now, my question is where is the original Quran of Muhammad??? You don’t even have the Original source to determine the correctness of your existing Arabic Quran.

 

[Reuben_J]

Let me get the facts straight:

• The Qu’ran is in Arabic
• The Qu’ran in other languages is interpretation, not actual Qu’ran
• Interpretation of the Qu’ran is limited
• The senses of the Qu’ran is literal and metaphorical

So, when English speakers interpret an English Qu’ran, we’re interpreting an interpretation, which means our interpretation is flawed, and hence, our understanding of the Qu’ran is wrong?

Is this correct, or am I going coocoo for CocoPuffs?

 

[jblake]

swariffin;:

Now, my question is where is the original Quran of Muhammad???

Theory # 1: Muhammad never existed. The book was compiled for political reasons. Specifically, to unify the nomadic tribes, and have them fight those outside of the desert, rather than those within the desert. (This theory has the support of archaeology, and non-muslim sources.)(Proponents of this theory tend to be killed, as a direct result of fatwahs issued against them.)

Theory # 2: The original was redacted to make it more palatable to the masses. The second redaction was to make it more acceptable to the political leadership.(This theory has the support of the hadith, and most muslims.)

You don’t even have the Original source to determine the correctness of your existing Arabic Quran.

Any muslim who claims that the q’ran — any of the three extant versions — is correct, and unaltered since the time of muhammd is flat out lying.

jonathon