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wasmit
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iqrasearch.com/surah-Qamar(Moon)-translation.html
the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon
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wasmit
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mlchance
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Start with Craig Blomberg’s The Historical Reliability of the Gospels. After that, I have further recommendations.
– Mark L. Chance.
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erbo
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If we simply followed one “stronger” instinct (or perhaps a collection of instincts), then we should be able to enumerate all of the instincts we have and label some instincts always “good” and some instincts always “evil”. Can we really take any particular instinct and say that it is always “good” or “evil”? I’d say no, because it depends on the circumstance. On that basis, I have reason to conjecture that there might be a “third force” that urges us to chose what appears to be “good” for that particular situation.
To use yet another C.S. Lewis example, think of our instincts as notes on a piano. None of the notes themselves are “right” or “wrong”, because any particular note could be “right” or “wrong” at any time. The “moral law” would be analogous to a tune played with our instincts.
My point here is that this “moral law” exists in a strange way: It’s not a fact about human nature (like any law of physics would be), it’s also not some kind of aesthetic code that we follow out of convenience (because a lot of times it’s actually very inconvenient). Therefore, the law must be real, not something made up by humans. Yet, it is not a concrete fact (like our actual behavior is).
If that is true, then it looks like there might be another kind of reality. To sum up:
C.S.Lewis Mere Christianity ch. 3:
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steve_b
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that’s a far different translation/interpretation of ch 54 than the one I gave you from this source.
muslim.org/english-quran/search/index.htm
Here’s various translations of the quran by chapter.
usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/
None have muhammed doing the action. Seems like there’s a conflict.
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mlchance
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Indeed. IIRC (and I might not), the Quran states that Muhammed could not perform miracles. I could probably come up with the specific reference, but since I might be wrong and I’m feeling lazy right now, I’ll leave that to someone more well-versed with Islam than me.
– Mark L. Chance.
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steve_b
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I wouldn’t be talkng about it at all if Wasmit hadn’t brought it up.Indeed. IIRC (and I might not), the Quran states that Muhammed could not perform miracles. I could probably come up with the specific reference, but since I might be wrong and I’m feeling lazy right now, I’ll leave that to someone more well-versed with Islam than me.
– Mark L. Chance.
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rookieonedge
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You are focusing on human beings as individuals making moral choices because of “intincts,” but what about the fact that whole societies seek to observe moral/ethical principles, even our own society which, however, is losing its moorings (abortion, embryonic stem-cell research, physician-assisted suicide, etc. . .) Consider the Greeks with their morality plays. There is something within that I don’t think science can relegate to physiological instincts. It’s been called “moral compass,” “conscience,” and “collective conscience.” It’s also called the law “written in our hearts;” it’s a connection to the spiritual, which cannot be explained away by biological theories or psychological for that matter. Morality is our link to God.
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wasmit
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yes, there are different translations and interpretations of the quran.
I’m not really sure what your point is with your "are there miracles in the quran’ question.
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Traditional_Ang
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Wasmit:
Handbook of Christian Apologetics*, by *Peter Kreeft and Ronald K. Tacelli and
Reasonable Faith, by William Lane Craig
are both available from both Amazon Kindle and Amazon.com for quite reasonable prices.
Your library should be able to order them for you if you don’t want to buy them, as others in your community will surely want to read them. I used to use my City Library a lot, and their policy was that, due to budgetary constraints, they often wouldn’t order “specialty books” unless someone expressed an interest in them or a need for them.
Here are 3 more:
Mere Christianity, by C.S. Lewis
God on the Dock, by C.S. Lewis
Reasons to believe, by Scott Hahn
Also, please reread the proofs by Thomas Aquinas, because he raises almost every objection to belief in God one could think of. and, Remember, just because you don’t think it’s likely or you don’t like how it’s reported doesn’t mean that there isn’t a God who loves and cares for you.
I’ve personally witnessed at 3 miracles - They’re all posted here at Catholic Answers.
Your Servant in Christ, Michael
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Traditional_Ang
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Wasmit:
Chapter 54 is the “End of Days” prophecy - I’m listening to it now, and it has nothing to do with Mohammed “Splitting the Moon”.
Quran Chapter 54 - The Moon
1-8 End of Days & the Resurrection of the Dead
9-16 - Noah & the Flood
17-22 - Warnings & the Ad People
23-32 - The Thamood & the She Camel
33-40 - Sodom and Gamorrah
41-48 - The Exodus
49-End - Every Deed Recorded
In fact, I think you should listen to Suras 53 and 54 for context so you can see what this is about.
Sura 53 & Sura 54 - “The Star & The Moon”
I just can’t see how this has anything to do with Mohammed splitting the Moon, and I’m afraid my Muslim friends would say that we were committing “Fitna” if we said that’s what Quran Sura 54 was about.
Your Servant in Christ, Michael
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wasmit
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Sorry for my very late reply, I have been away from my usual location.
I agree that almost all humans have a moral sense or what is the right and wrong thing to do, though I wouldn’t call it a “law”, in the strict sense of the word, as it is different from person to person, as can be seen by the many different and valid opinions on grey moral issues.
All* humans would agree that if you must choose between killing 5 people and 1 person, you would choose to kill 1, however disagreement can arise when looking at a continuum of options.
e.g. you and a friend are flirting at a bar. Your friend has had x standard alcoholic drinks. You drive your friend home and when you stop the car, your friend starts passionately kissing you. You know this will lead to sex. Should you kiss your friend back, and then have sex with them? x = 0,0.5, 1,2,3…20.
There is a grey area here, and different people will have different opinions. There is no way to tell who is right, if one person says “4” and another says “3.5”.
Another example, a hot topic on these forums. You are x weeks pregnant. A medical event will occur tomorrow, that has y% chance to kill you(and the fetus) if you are still pregnant. The lifesaving/abortion procedure will kill the fetus, even if it is very advanced. Should you have an abortion today?
Most would agree with the abortion if x=2 y=100. Most would disagree if x=39 and y=0. There is a continuum inbetween where every individual draws a line in the sand. Which is the correct line?
Hmm, I kind of rambled. These are interesting issues!
I don’t follow your reasoning that the existence of human morals suggests there might be another reality. Can you please explain that further?
I agree that almost all humans have a moral sense or what is the right and wrong thing to do, though I wouldn’t call it a “law”, in the strict sense of the word, as it is different from person to person, as can be seen by the many different and valid opinions on grey moral issues.
All* humans would agree that if you must choose between killing 5 people and 1 person, you would choose to kill 1, however disagreement can arise when looking at a continuum of options.
e.g. you and a friend are flirting at a bar. Your friend has had x standard alcoholic drinks. You drive your friend home and when you stop the car, your friend starts passionately kissing you. You know this will lead to sex. Should you kiss your friend back, and then have sex with them? x = 0,0.5, 1,2,3…20.
There is a grey area here, and different people will have different opinions. There is no way to tell who is right, if one person says “4” and another says “3.5”.
Another example, a hot topic on these forums. You are x weeks pregnant. A medical event will occur tomorrow, that has y% chance to kill you(and the fetus) if you are still pregnant. The lifesaving/abortion procedure will kill the fetus, even if it is very advanced. Should you have an abortion today?
Most would agree with the abortion if x=2 y=100. Most would disagree if x=39 and y=0. There is a continuum inbetween where every individual draws a line in the sand. Which is the correct line?
Hmm, I kind of rambled. These are interesting issues!
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wasmit
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This might be because a society is a group of individuals.
how do you know this? What reasons do you have for this assertion?
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wasmit
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wasmit
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Which version is correct? I posted a link to a version saying that mohammed did it himself, and others have shown links where this information is ommitted. I have no idea which is correct.
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rookieonedge
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As for the first statement, yes, it is true that it is in the province of individuals to make moral (and non-moral) choices that often reverberate throughout that person’s life but also throughout the history of that person’s family, and I might add, even relations with others. For example, a woman who has an abortion, an immoral choice, carries with her this deed throughout her life, and because the newly created person was deprived of life, his/her destiny was cut short so that God’ will could not be fulfilled in that new person He created for a particular purpose. (However, if there is repentance, God will bring good out of evil.)
Even more so, choices made by an individual who is a ruler/political leader of sorts, will afffect the lives of citizens near and far and even into the annals of history. Although these choices are made by individuals, we could consider that each individual person is a “product of society” and is influenced by many things. It is easy to see that youth are first influenced by parents, then peers before entering adulthood where they are then influenced by political parties, religious faith, organizations they join. Nonetheless, we are, each and everyone of us, responsible for our choices and actions.
Also, societies are influenced by the philosophies of the age. Consider that early societies were held together by their gods, such as the early Greeks until neighboring gods brought havoc and relativism to their society.
“Man needs wisdom, but what he needs and what he buys are two different things. Wisdom may cry a the gates, but man is too busy at the mall to hear. He likes to hear Protagoras say that man is the measure of all things, and concludes that the good or the evil or the existence or nonexistence of a thing depends upon how he chooses to consider it.” (Anthony Esolen: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Western Civiliization
As for your question how do I know this (that there is a “conscience” or moral understanding about right and wrong? Although a conscience must be developed, there is still an understanding “in our hearts” (souls?) that, for example, murder, theft, coveting, pride, gluttony, lust (all the cardinal sin and in any way we are unlike God–imperfections) are evils of various degrees.
Consider that all life forms have a life principle that animates that form. All animals have this. Some contends that even plants do. Obviously, the life principle in human beings is much higher than that of the animals. The Catechism of the Catholic Church points out that Scripture uses the term “soul” to denote a human life and, also, to describe the innermost aspect of man. It is in this way that we are made in God’s image; it is the spiritual principle. (No. 363).
Catholic Answers relates that “the soul is the seat of our intellect and our will, including such aspects as consciousness, reason, memory, imagination, emotion and conscience.” Our soul and body are so intimately joined in this life that whatever affects one, has influence on the other. Therefore, “every time, in the body, we freely perform an immoral action, it is only because our soul–the animating principle–has chosen that action. This is why conscious bodily actions have eternal consequences. This is why sacred Scripture tells us that 'we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive recompense, according to what he did in the body” (2 Cor. 5:10)."
“In those respects in which the soul is unlike God, it is also unlike itself.” (St. Bernard)
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