New Missal Translation

[benedictgal]

Benedictgal, please set me straight!. I was not sure that the new translation had the approval of the Vatican. Our pastor here in Moscow wants to begin teaching the people the new responses as early as Lent of this year. We are not under the jurisdiction of the American bishops, but we have our own bishop. I don’t think that our bishop is going to spend too much time worrying about what translations the small English language community is using as long as it is approved by Rome. I have found Masses and responses which we can use on the Musica Sacra website. My question is that if we have the permission of our bishop, are we good to go?

He can certainly start teaching the prayers to the faithful right now. In fact, I would suggest getting hold of japhy’s book, Praying the Mass, as it is a great start. However, as for using it immediately, that is still a resounding no. We need to wait until the whole Sacramentary is released (Advent 2010) and promulgated before we can even begin to use it.

The only area that is using it right now is Africa, but, this is because they jumped the gun and started implementing it right away, much to the dismay of the Holy See. Nonetheless, even though the texts are much improved, we cannot make the same mistake that Africa made.

 

[peregrinus_sg]

Fear not, Phemie, it’s only for the United States. I hope that the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus will intercede for something superior to the RNAB. It is just awful. I would rather use the Second Edition Revised-CE (the Ignatius Bible) translation. The language is so much more beautiful and it is already in compliance with Liturgiam Authenticam.

I didn’t know that ICEL is working on a new translation of the Lectionary. ICPEL (set up by the Bishops conferences of England and Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Australia) is supposed to be working on a new translation of the Lectionary, and has been working on it for a few years already since Liturgiam authenticam was published. Its chaired by Archbishop Mark Coleridge and has plans to amend and adjust the NRSV to make it faithful to the Latin scriptural tradition, but as of Jun 2009, it was still navigating through the copyright landmines with the copyright holders of the NRSV and the Canadian Bishops.

Do you have an article that we can read more about ICEL’s involvement in a new Lectionary translation?

 

[MonFrere]

The target date according to the CDWDS is Advent 2010. The white book has already been out since 2008 so as to give composers ample time to develop musical settings for the new translations. Paraphrases are prohibited.

Question: What will be the status of all settings of the Mass with the old translations? This may be a good place to introduce some better music with the more accurate translations.

MonFrere

 

[bkovacs]

I didn’t know that ICEL is working on a new translation of the Lectionary. ICPEL (set up by the Bishops conferences of England and Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Australia) is supposed to be working on a new translation of the Lectionary, and has been working on it for a few years already since Liturgiam authenticam was published. Its chaired by Archbishop Mark Coleridge and has plans to amend and adjust the NRSV to make it faithful to the Latin scriptural tradition, but as of Jun 2009, it was still navigating through the copyright landmines with the copyright holders of the NRSV and the Canadian Bishops.

Do you have an article that we can read more about ICEL’s involvement in a new Lectionary translation?

NRSV what a joke!!. Why doesn’t he just use the RSV CE, which is the preferred translation of most Catholics these days, and fits perfectly into the Pope’s reform of the reform. These Archbishops and Bishops of the post Vatican 2 desecrations are bound to have the last laugh.

 

[benedictgal]

Question: What will be the status of all settings of the Mass with the old translations? This may be a good place to introduce some better music with the more accurate translations.

MonFrere

That was the whole point of releasing the propers of the Mass ahead of time, so that composers can work on the musical settings. The only ones that I am going to miss are A New Mass for a Congregation and the Community Mass settings. At least, this will be the end of Mass of Hope, Mass of Creation, the SLJ Mass and the tawdry stuff in Spirit and Song, as well as Bob Hurd’s dreadful pieces.

Once the new translations are promulgated, the old settings will no longer be used.

 

[Apryl]

This whole thing is so frustrating to me.

I have Missals (Sunday and Daily) which ‘expired’ in 1999. Since that time I’ve been trying to get new books.

What I do not have in my old books is the dates to match… so I had to go through my books, MARK in the books the ‘new’ dates. In the places where I didn’t do all the date changes, I have to flip back and forth to make sure I have the correct page for my readings.

Then, there are some dates that do / don’t exist because of changes to the calendar.

All I want is a book, with the OLD information, but NEW dates… and no one is doing that… at least not that I’ve found.

The publishers, and the PTB knew before 1997 that the old ones ‘expired’ in 1999… so why are they taking so long to get the books out?

I’m sick of buying annual books. I want a book to take me through the next 25 years or so.

The first excuse I heard was that they were combining the Daily and the Sunday. Well???

 

[benedictgal]

This whole thing is so frustrating to me.

I have Missals (Sunday and Daily) which ‘expired’ in 1999. Since that time I’ve been trying to get new books.

What I do not have in my old books is the dates to match… so I had to go through my books, MARK in the books the ‘new’ dates. In the places where I didn’t do all the date changes, I have to flip back and forth to make sure I have the correct page for my readings.

Then, there are some dates that do / don’t exist because of changes to the calendar.

All I want is a book, with the OLD information, but NEW dates… and no one is doing that… at least not that I’ve found.

The publishers, and the PTB knew before 1997 that the old ones ‘expired’ in 1999… so why are they taking so long to get the books out?

I’m sick of buying annual books. I want a book to take me through the next 25 years or so.

The first excuse I heard was that they were combining the Daily and the Sunday. Well???

Rather than invest some serious money, wait until the new Roman Missal is promulgated. You might consider getting a subscription to the Magnificat. This monthly publication has all of the readings for the given month, along with meditations and abbreviated morning and evening prayer. It also has the English and Latin parts of the Mass. It is a good investment until the new Roman Missal comes out.

 

[MonFrere]

That was the whole point of releasing the propers of the Mass ahead of time, so that composers can work on the musical settings. The only ones that I am going to miss are A New Mass for a Congregation and the Community Mass settings. At least, this will be the end of Mass of Hope, Mass of Creation, the SLJ Mass and the tawdry stuff in Spirit and Song, as well as Bob Hurd’s dreadful pieces.

Once the new translations are promulgated, the old settings will no longer be used.

Are you saying that beginning Advent 2010 that we are going need to sing newly composed Masses? If so, I hope the will be released sometime this summer. The Latin Settings of the Mass will still be OK. Yes? Our priest, I think because of some extreme traditionalists in our area, doesn’t like Latin settings. Yet, liturgically, he is good about following the rubrics of the OF well.

MonFrere

 

[benedictgal]

Are you saying that beginning Advent 2010 that we are going need to sing newly composed Masses? If so, I hope the will be released sometime this summer. The Latin Settings of the Mass will still be OK. Yes? Our priest, I think because of some extreme traditionalists in our area, doesn’t like Latin settings. Yet, liturgically, he is good about following the rubrics of the OF well.

MonFrere

Oh no, these will come early, especially since the translations were released specifically for this purpose. You will get to rehearse these with your choir.

 

[Joannm]

That was the whole point of releasing the propers of the Mass ahead of time, so that composers can work on the musical settings. The only ones that I am going to miss are A New Mass for a Congregation and the Community Mass settings. At least, this will be the end of Mass of Hope, Mass of Creation, the SLJ Mass and the tawdry stuff in Spirit and Song, as well as Bob Hurd’s dreadful pieces.

Once the new translations are promulgated, the old settings will no longer be used.

The Mass of Creation has already been reset to the new texts according to pretty reliable sources, but it is not published yet.

Also, when I had dinner with a emember of the BCDW in October, he stated that the recognition probably will not come until April of 2010 and then our bishops have asked for a year or more before implementing them in dioceses, although particular bishops may consider early implementation. The problem will be having printed texts available for the assembly. So we may be looking more toward Lent or Easter of 2011 or maybe even Advent 2011 as was stated in a previous post.

 

[benedictgal]

The Mass of Creation has already been reset to the new texts according to pretty reliable sources, but it is not published yet.

Also, when I had dinner with a emember of the BCDW in October, he stated that the recognition probably will not come until April of 2010 and then our bishops have asked for a year or more before implementing them in dioceses, although particular bishops may consider early implementation. The problem will be having printed texts available for the assembly. So we may be looking more toward Lent or Easter of 2011 or maybe even Advent 2011 as was stated in a previous post.

Joanm, I think it’s just another delaying tactic. The parts of the people have already been around for one year. Thus your statement about having the printed texts for the people reallyi does not hold any water because these have already been out. What we should be doing is preparing the people with what we already have.

Now, the recognition may come sooner because Rome did give the USCCB an ultimatum to have their work done by November 30, 2009.

It just seems to me that there will be some who will employ whatever stalling tactic they can conjure up to keep this from rolling. Believe me, this is no different than what I saw back in the Texas House.

 

[Joannm]

Joanm, I think it’s just another delaying tactic. The parts of the people have already been around for one year. Thus your statement about having the printed texts for the people reallyi does not hold any water because these have already been out. What we should be doing is preparing the people with what we already have.

Now, the recognition may come sooner because Rome did give the USCCB an ultimatum to have their work done by November 30, 2009.

It just seems to me that there will be some who will employ whatever stalling tactic they can conjure up to keep this from rolling. Believe me, this is no different than what I saw back in the Texas House.

the way that it was explained to me was that the completed texts, all of them not just the ordinary, has t o go to ICEL for approval before the recognitio is given. Our conference has approved all the texts but there were still waiting on sections from other conferences. ICEL meets in January and April. It was explained that unless all the approved texts from all the conferences were able to get to ICEL who has to wade through adaptations (some of which have not been approved yet, such as “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.”), give final approval and then send them back to the Congregation for approval, might not happen until the April meeting. That means the end of April into May for recignitio. The books cannot be printed until all the adaptations have been dealt with and the final text is fully approved.

The BCDW is working on a timetable on catechesis and implementation. The dates for regional workshops is published. Workshops will be given by the secretariate of the BCDW in 20 locations in order to train those who will be catechizing the people in the diocese. It is too early to be teaching people responses that they weill not be using for a year or more. In our diocese we are doing remote preparation on the Mass and simply indicating where the changes will be taking place. The boxed workshops that will be available will be focused on different groups, such as priests, catechists, musicians and the assembly. We are also working on a spring or fall clergy conference with a nationally known speaker/theologian who will present the changes and how to smootly implement them.

Yes the books are probably print ready, but unless they are going to print both the old texts and the new texts they cannot be in the pews until we know an implementation date for sure.

 

[benedictgal]

the way that it was explained to me was that the completed texts, all of them not just the ordinary, has t o go to ICEL for approval before the recognitio is given. Our conference has approved all the texts but there were still waiting on sections from other conferences. ICEL meets in January and April. It was explained that unless all the approved texts from all the conferences were able to get to ICEL who has to wade through adaptations (some of which have not been approved yet, such as “Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.”), give final approval and then send them back to the Congregation for approval, might not happen until the April meeting. That means the end of April into May for recignitio. The books cannot be printed until all the adaptations have been dealt with and the final text is fully approved.

The BCDW is working on a timetable on catechesis and implementation. The dates for regional workshops is published. Workshops will be given by the secretariate of the BCDW in 20 locations in order to train those who will be catechizing the people in the diocese. It is too early to be teaching people responses that they weill not be using for a year or more. In our diocese we are doing remote preparation on the Mass and simply indicating where the changes will be taking place. The boxed workshops that will be available will be focused on different groups, such as priests, catechists, musicians and the assembly. We are also working on a spring or fall clergy conference with a nationally known speaker/theologian who will present the changes and how to smootly implement them.

Yes the books are probably print ready, but unless they are going to print both the old texts and the new texts they cannot be in the pews until we know an implementation date for sure.

But, dioceses can already start on their own. I will be quite frank with you. I am leery of anything that the USCCB and the FDLC is putting together. While doing some housecleaning, I came across notes dating back to 2003 from the FDLC and they did not look very promising. They were rather far to the left and did not seem to have the true Sensus Fidei in mind. I wondered why I even saved them. I also saw the old SWLC and was just as dismayed.

I am reminded of what a priest friend of mine said when he observed that we do not need committees and strategies to get things done. It’s more of a waste of time than anything else. What you need is to have someone with a solid grasp of the liturgy within the diocese, get hold of japhy’s book and take it from there. All of these conferences are a waste of time and money.

Besides, the USCCB website to explain the Roman MIssal is just as clear. You certainly don’t need to have any liturgical experience to understand it. Furthermore, the current version is right next to the new.

 

[malphono]

I am forever befuddled by the interminable delay in releasing the OF traslation that will replace the ICEL innovation. Yes, I know all the arguments about South Africa “jumping the gun” and the idea that they (bishops) want the entire thing at one time, and the arguments among the bishops (some of course, using delay tactics to prolong the use of the defective texts) but still … It’s taken longer for this translation to appear than it took [edited] to write the OF in the first place.

Perhaps this is a bit simplistic, but I see absolutely no reason why the “common texts” (the “Ordinary” (including the Creed), Lord’s Prayer, “and with your spirit” etc) could not have been released 4 years ago. Those parts are just that: common. What difference would it make (except maybe to the grand ego of the ICEL) if the translations of those replaced the innovations today? Some bishops (the ones using the delay tactics) seem to think it’s a matter of major chatechetics. It’s not. The translation gets printed in the “missalettes” along with a few words of instruction from the pulpit. Done. But of course that is merely wishful thinking.

 

[peregrinus_sg]

The Mass of Creation has already been reset to the new texts according to pretty reliable sources, but it is not published yet.

Oh dear.

But I hope that the revised Mass of Creation (or should that be now termed as the Mass of Reincarnation) would at least be faithful to the texts, rather than try to fit the words to the music.

 

[Phemie]

Are you saying that beginning Advent 2010 that we are going need to sing newly composed Masses? If so, I hope the will be released sometime this summer. The Latin Settings of the Mass will still be OK. Yes? Our priest, I think because of some extreme traditionalists in our area, doesn’t like Latin settings. Yet, liturgically, he is good about following the rubrics of the OF well.

MonFrere

The frustrating thing is that new chant settings have already made their way to the internet – freely offered by their composers. They were forced by ICEL to remove them so that they wouldn’t have an advantage over the publishing houses whose stables of composers would be paid for the doing that work.

Opinion - The Telegraph's columnists inform and entertain with their analysis and commentary on a wide range of topics. - The Telegraph

 

[peregrinus_sg]

The frustrating thing is that new chant settings have already made their way to the internet – freely offered by their composers. They were forced by ICEL to remove them so that they wouldn’t have an advantage over the publishing houses whose stables of composers would be paid for the doing that work.
Opinion - The Telegraph

You mean that churches will use the first setting that comes their way?

I would hope that diocesan & parish music directors use the opportunity to select good Mass settings to use with their assemblies in worship.

 

[Phemie]

You mean that churches will use the first setting that comes their way?

I would hope that diocesan & parish music directors use the opportunity to select good Mass settings to use with their assemblies in worship.

Note that those settings were chant.

You know as well as I do that once OCP and the like blitz the churches with ads, the independent composer who may have a much better setting will be left in the dust simply because he doesn’t have a big machine behind him. Unlike indy bands who may be able to get a dj’s ear and get their product exposed to a wide audience, the indy liturgical music composer’s options are rather limited.

It doesn’t bode well that 'Mass of Creation" may already be altered for the new text.

 

[benedictgal]

Note that those settings were chant.

You know as well as I do that once OCP and the like blitz the churches with ads, the independent composer who may have a much better setting will be left in the dust simply because he doesn’t have a big machine behind him. Unlike indy bands who may be able to get a dj’s ear and get their product exposed to a wide audience, the indy liturgical music composer’s options are rather limited.

It doesn’t bode well that 'Mass of Creation" may already be altered for the new text.

I am rather skeptical about the new version of Mass of Creation, given Marty Haugen’s track record. I certainly hope that he was faithful to the text, since this is a serious mandate from no less than the CDWDS. I also hope that he shelved his version of the Agnus Dei.

 

[ProVobis]

Question: What will be the status of all settings of the Mass with the old translations? This may be a good place to introduce some better music with the more accurate translations.

MonFrere

You want to kill all the music too?

This is way too painful for me.