New Missal

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Rolltide said:
Agreed. If you’ve never had first hand experience in dealing with a publishing company, you have no idea how many reasons they can come up with or decisions that have to be made that can affect how fast they can print something. It’s simply mind-boggling.
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I know how long it takes the university to just print 100 copies of a compendium of student-written plays on plain white paper with coil binding. Something like the Roman Missal, wow.
 
Rolltide said:
Of course, there’s a difference in producing a pamphlet or bulletin with the text for a special event or a Mass with the pope, and an entirely new bound missal…
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The Holy Father uses a bound missal during all of his Apostolic Voyages. His is bound in white. Evidently, a famed Scottish composer has already set the new translations to music.
 
Phemie said:
Raise your hand all of you whose parish was ‘prepared’ before this latest recognitio?

Thought so. The USCCB had the Ordinary of the Mass on their website but the CCCB didn’t. In fact, there’s hardly been any mention of it from the CCCB until now. They were probably more involved with the Lectionary than the Missal which, as I understand, they voted on as one complete book, not piecemeal as most other conferences did.
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The Ordinary already had received recogntio; if not, the CDWDS would not have released this. I tried to get our diocese to do something during that time, but, the bishop never committed. The whole Roman Missal now has the recognitio. My parish is starting to prepare everyone.
 
benedictgal said:
The Ordinary already had received recogntio; if not, the CDWDS would not have released this. I tried to get our diocese to do something during that time, but, the bishop never committed. The whole Roman Missal now has the recognitio. My parish is starting to prepare everyone.
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I know the Ordinary had already received recognitio, what I’m saying is until the latest recognitio of the entire third edition, the CCCB had been silent on the topic. In fact, even now the only thing on their website is the press release from ICEL with nary a comment.

Remember, North America was still looking to keep “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again” and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to discover that Canada was seeking to retain the different introductions to each of these acclamations (introductions which we seem to be particular to this country). I’m sure they didn’t really want to talk about this until everything was a done deal.
 
benedictgal said:
I could buy that excuse if we lived during the 1970s; however, in this day and age, with all of the technological advancements, it should not take this long.
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Why do you think that technology will make proof reading faster? Unless the publishers and printers farm out the proof reading to hundreds or thousands of volunteer proof readers, using the internet or something, I can’t see technology doing anything to make the process faster.

I want the final product to be error free so I am willing to give them all the time they think that they need to make it so.
 
Phemie said:
But then you’ll be dealing with all the different adaptations of the GIRM (remember, this will be Canada’s first time dealing with the ‘new’ GIRM) and we still don’t know if there will be national adaptions to the Missal as there were with the second edition. Then each country will be using its own printers, who will typeset a Missal which will then have to be edited to make sure there are no errors, etc, etc. The logistics of this are way more complicated than people think.
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You’re right, Australia and New Zealand have their own locally published/printed hand missals and they are different from the UK editions in quite a few ways - the response in responsorial psalms are often/usually different from the UK edition, the gospel acclimation is different and so forth. So not only did the printers have to wait for official approval (given in April this year) but they also have to coordinate with the national Councils of Catholic Bishops in all the different English speaking countries that they intend to service with the printed hand missals.
 
Rolltide said:
As a professional historian who routinely reviews and proofs history books for publishing houses all the time as part of my job, I can tell you that a year and a half, believe it or not, would be a lightning fast turn around time. Most books go through DOZENS of drafts and have DOZENS of editors commenting on them. Each time an edit is made, it must be sent back to the author for their approval, and then it goes back, and on and on. Decisions about paper, artwork, typesetting, the cover, and so on all have to be made. It took me almost 4 months just to get the copyright back from my dissertation alone (government red tape, of course)! Photos might have to be cleared. Maps need to be created. All of this is done on other people’s timetables, not yours. It is a shockingly complicated process.
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Unlike historical texts (my BA is in history, I’ve done publications work in another couple fields), this is a case where the publisher gets the text electronically, typesets it, and has to have it checked against the electronic.

It will (unlike far too many history texts in print) require little (if any) graphical work of any kind, and NO editing, NO revising, NO typographical corrections of the approved text may be made. Word by word, it takes about 15-20 minutes per Letter-sized double spaced page to verify print against e-text. (I’ve done this. It sucks. of the dozen documents for which I’ve done this, only one had a caught error, and that was due to encoding, and was blatantly obvious. Print shop had put it through on an older printer, prior to optical process plate creation. every other error caught was in the etext as well.)

All the content is as edited as it is going to get. It has taken about a decade, actually, to get to this point. Now, it just goes for layout. And the layout gets proofed by whomever grants the imprimateur… but the printshop also checks it.

But with modern laser lithographic systems, it’s all the etext being in the right format for the plate printer.

If your printer is still using physical type, they’d better be doing so as hobbyists…
 
So the new translation is an international one? If I go abroad to an english-speaking country it will all be the same once this missal is implemented?

I ask because unless I’m mistaken there are currently subtle differences in the US Missal to, say, the UK aren’t there?
 
MoreCoffee said:
I want the final product to be error free so I am willing to give them all the time they think that they need to make it so.
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Where translations (as well as paraprasing) are concerned, there will never be 100% error free nor controversy-free products. But, even if there were, English changes over time anyway and I’d expect more revisions within a few years. Yes, it can get expensive even with the technology we have. But that’s nothing compared to the many hundreds of vernaculars that must be maintained and authenticized by the Vatican.
 
Mattjolley said:
So the new translation is an international one? If I go abroad to an english-speaking country it will all be the same once this missal is implemented?

I ask because unless I’m mistaken there are currently subtle differences in the US Missal to, say, the UK aren’t there?
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This is what we still don’t know.

We do know that North America has asked to retain the ‘Christ has died…’ Memorial Acclamation but we don’t know if that was approved. Canada has a different introduction for each of the Memorial Acclamations and we don’t know if they’ll be allowed to keep those, or even if they’ve requested to do so.
 
Mattjolley said:
So the new translation is an international one? If I go abroad to an english-speaking country it will all be the same once this missal is implemented?

I ask because unless I’m mistaken there are currently subtle differences in the US Missal to, say, the UK aren’t there?
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If your hand missal contains the biblical text from the lectionary then there are differences because in Australia, UK, NZ, and a bunch of other countries, the Jerusalem Bible is the underlying text for the lectionary while in the USA the underlying text is from the New American Bible. There’s also the small calendar changes - national observations for special saints, number of holy days of obligation and which days they are and so forth. There may also be differences in the gospel acclimation, responses in responsorial psalms, even if you use the grail Psalter (as we do) as the text for the psalms.
 
ProVobis said:
Where translations (as well as paraprasing) are concerned, there will never be 100% error free nor controversy-free products. But, even if there were, English changes over time anyway and I’d expect more revisions within a few years. Yes, it can get expensive even with the technology we have. But that’s nothing compared to the many hundreds of vernaculars that must be maintained and authenticized by the Vatican.
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I was referring to the English text in the printed missals being correct (free from spelling, typographical, and other textual errors) not to the quality of the translation of the English text. At this stage I don’t see that much is to be gained from more fights about what is or isn’t the best word or phrase to translate some Latin word of phrase. If a perfect translation is what is wanted then I hold out little hope that such a thing can be achieved because that kind of perfection is in the eye of the reader.
 
MoreCoffee said:
If your hand missal contains the biblical text from the lectionary then there are differences because in Australia, UK, NZ, and a bunch of other countries, the Jerusalem Bible is the underlying text for the lectionary while in the USA the underlying text is from the New American Bible. There’s also the small calendar changes - national observations for special saints, number of holy days of obligation and which days they are and so forth. There may also be differences in the gospel acclimation, responses in responsorial psalms, even if you use the grail Psalter (as we do) as the text for the psalms.
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It still should not cause that huge of a delay.
 
Why can’t we just all go back to using the Douar-Rheims Bible?! Every part of Mass is supposed to be outside of the normal culture/other worldly anyways. 🙂
 
MoreCoffee said:
If your hand missal contains the biblical text from the lectionary then there are differences because in Australia, UK, NZ, and a bunch of other countries, the Jerusalem Bible is the underlying text for the lectionary while in the USA the underlying text is from the New American Bible. There’s also the small calendar changes - national observations for special saints, number of holy days of obligation and which days they are and so forth. There may also be differences in the gospel acclimation, responses in responsorial psalms, even if you use the grail Psalter (as we do) as the text for the psalms.
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Thanks, but I already knew about these differences! 👍 I just thought that the US current Missal had different wordings etc. Obviously not!
 
benedictgal said:
At this point, the whole thing is moot since the Holy See has granted the new translation the necessary recognitio. What is now needed is obedience from all parties involved. We need to embrace this beautiful work and move on full speed ahead.
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Move ahead, yes. Beautiful? A controversial and subjective opinion. So, yes, move ahead, keeping that in mind.
 
MoreCoffee said:
If a perfect translation is what is wanted then I hold out little hope that such a thing can be achieved because that kind of perfection is in the eye of the reader.
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You nailed it.

Now try translating THAT into another language. 🙂
 
MoreCoffee said:
If you have a moment then listen to the mp3 at the end of this link abc.net.au/religion/stories/s2822647.htm and you will have a better appreciation for why it has taken so long to produce the 3rd edition of the Roman Missal and why printing it is not a trivial exercise.

Cheers
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However, in this day and age, it should not be that difficult. I could buy the argument if we lived in the 1970s when things were still type-set, but, that is not the case at all in the here and now. Things can be (and are) sent electronically.
 
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