New Noah's Ark Finding: Any Thoughts?

[lao_tzu]

Briefly.

I am looking forward to the reply to your e-mail.

Hello Granny,

I received a “response” but it was quite disappointing, consisting of nothing more than a scan of the longer article appearing in the print edition of the Guardian. Not even so much as a greeting. Effectively, it was a snub. The online version I found myself. The Guardian version includes more detail, but leaves my emailed questions unanswered.

As ever, Jesse

 

[grace_singh]

What makes it “more likely”? Both read as mythic accounts.,

no, the Bible reads as though it were recording historical and real events.

were it to read as a mythical account, it would open with a disclaimer that the following narratives were fables, myths, and allegories designed to teach and help people, but not to be taken as fact.

instead, the Bible opens with “in the beginning, God created…”, and goes from there. it presents itself as fact, as history, as God in history, and it is human skepticism, disbelief, and interpretation which project the concept of “myth” onto the text, in part or in full.

 

[StAnastasia]

no, the Bible reads as though it were recording historical and real events. were it to read as a mythical account, it would open with a disclaimer that the following narratives were fables, myths, and allegories designed to teach and help people, but not to be taken as fact.

Genesis reads neither more nor less literally than the Popol Vuh of the Maya people:

Here is the story of the beginning,
when there was not one bird,
not one fish,
not one mountain.
Here is the sky, all alone.
Here is the sea, all alone.
There is nothing more
–no sound, no movement.
Only the sky and the sea.
Only Heart-of-Sky, alone.
And these are his names:
Maker and Modeler,
Kukulkan,
and Hurricane.
But there is no one to speak his names.
There is no one to praise his glory.
There is no one to nurture his greatness.

 

[grace_singh]

Genesis reads neither more nor less literally than the Popol Vuh of the Maya people.

i’m not comparing it to any other text. obviously if a text assumes it tells the truth about the creation and formation of the world, it will not begin with a mythical disclaimer, and will not read as mythical accounts.

the Popul Vuh also reads as fact, and many, many of these narratives are strikingly similar to Genesis. further proof, in my eyes, that we all started out with the same truth, the same Story, the same narrative of how the universe and human life came to be. some cultures took it one way, others took it another.

it is recorded as was, however, in the Bible. which may well have been written down later than other similar sounding narratives telling blurred versions of the same Creation story, but which nonetheless contains the whole narrative, the true narrative, and the continuing narrative, taking the story from creation to geneologies, to nations, to Abraham, to the Hebrew nation, to Christ, and through Christ back to all the nations.

 

[grannymh]

Genesis reads neither more nor less literally than the Popol Vuh of the Maya people:
.

Catholic teaching is that Genesis 1:1 is literally true. “In the beginning, when God created the heavens and earth,”

Perhaps the question should be asked – Who will greet us at death?
The literal God in Genesis 1:1 or The Maya people’s “Only Heart-of-Sky, alone. And these are his names: Maker and Modeler, Kukulkan, and Hurricane.”

Blessings,
granny

 

[nordskoven]

The Genesis account is the most cogent and technical of all the other Flood accounts and shows that Genesis predated all others. Moses may have gotten Genesis from Egyptian archives as he was raised as a prince of Egypt. This was no mean feat as there were powerful pagan priests who made it a point to obscure their monotheist origins, demonizing the good guys and deifying the bad guys. There are tales about incurring divine wrath poking around in the archives–the basis of modern “The Mummy” mythos translated into film.

Akhenaton, the monotheist of Egypt, revived monotheism and created powerful economic ties and granted concessions to Hebrews as kindred spirits. And Akhenaton and Nefertiti who succeeded him were overthrown by powerful demonic priests with Tut being forced into becoming an AMON from an ATON. Egypt is part of the land promised as the latter-day kingdom per the Bible because this is part of the original consecrated monotheist territory taken over by the pagans as was Chanaan, later restored to the Jews by divine right. Future prophecy says all nations will go up to Jerusalem to celebrate Sukkoth, feast of the deliverance of the Jews from Egyptian slavery.

The King Lists of the Middle East all have ten patriarchs counting from the first man, Adam, to the ruler at the time of the Flood, Noah. There are eight rulers and two non-rulers. These two are Elijah, the one translated into Heaven; and one who died young and couldn’t rule. All King Lists reflect a long lifespan. The Ark-o-nauts were the last long-lived generation, and this is the basis for deifying those four couples saved on the Ark as they were around long after grandparents and great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents were gone. This is a natural, understandable corruption. One example of the corruption of orthodoxy is Noah’s imagery being turned into the red devil.

Noah (associated with the color red as was his son, Shem, and as was Adam as well as “ruddy” King David), got drunk and passed out naked. Noah’s authority was denoted by the stem and stern post from the Ark, depicted in art as technically-appropriate banded bundles with an eyelet at the end for lines, and lines cut off in a tassel form. This tasseled post was corrupted into a grain flail by artists, who after animals were used to tread grain, made the obsolete grain flail into a pitchfork.

Noah, once depicted as an enthroned ruler flanked by animal pairs, with the tasseled stem and stern posts nearby as a symbol of power, was corrupted by artists into a naked, red, animal-man holding a pitchfork with the crescent Ark for horns. This is what may be termed orthodox paganism, and is the corrupt basis for Bacchus et alii. But the origins are orthodox.

There was a Satanic revolt against orthodoxy, and this was no corruption but outright rebellion. So of course people like the Babylonians perverted everything God revealed and commanded, making man a slave at the mercy of the gods. As part of this rebellion, ancient landmarks were thrown down and lands seized, marriage was eradicated, steward-husbands were enslaved or killed, women of grace-wives who stored and distributed property and the fruits of the land in a peaceful, orderly system were made temple prostitutes at the beck and call of strangers, and their children were slaughtered.

That’s not a corruption of orthodoxy, it’s the Genesis 3:15 “enmity” between the Woman & Seed versus Satan and his minions. This is the nature of the war against God and His people. It’s no surprise that a ritual prostitute helps out the Jews. This demonic system is still highly lucrative. For decades Gnostic books have made the New York Times best-seller list, including ones about “Jesus.” The The DaVinci Code is best known, with its ritual prostitute in the shack-out-back ready to mate and give birth to semi-divine children of “Jesus” via “Mary Magdalene” which is the Freemason offering to the old, New Age movement. Most High God, give us all hearty appetites for truth.

P.S. Hats off to radio host Michael Savage for setting the record straight on Pius XII, who fought against the NAZI version of satanic “race-and-blood cults” and saved 3/4 million+ Jews from the genetic “elite.” May the Archangel Michael guide, strengthen, aid and protect us in vanquishing the Father of Lies and Murder and his seed.

 

[StAnastasia]

the Popul Vuh also reads as fact, and many, many of these narratives are strikingly similar to Genesis. further proof, in my eyes, that we all started out with the same truth, the same Story, the same narrative of how the universe and human life came to be. some cultures took it one way, others took it another.

Cosmogonic myths are interesting, whether they are written in Hebrew. or Quiche Maya, or some Siberian dialect. I like the Norse creation myth that includes a cow and the giant Ymir:

Muspell
The first world to exist was Muspell, a place of light and heat whose flames are so hot that those who are not native to that land cannot endure it.

Surt sits at Muspell’s border, guarding the land with a flaming sword. At the end of the world he will vanquish all the gods and burn the whole world with fire.

Ginnungagap and Niflheim
Beyond Muspell lay the great and yawning void named Ginnungagap, and beyond Ginnungagap lay the dark, cold realm of Niflheim.

Ice, frost, wind, rain and heavy cold emanated from Niflheim, meeting in Ginnungagap the soft air, heat, light, and soft air from Muspell.

Ymir
Where heat and cold met appeared thawing drops, and this running fluid grew into a giant frost ogre named Ymir.

Frost ogres
Ymir slept, falling into a sweat. Under his left arm there grew a man and a woman. And one of his legs begot a son with the other. This was the beginning of the frost ogres.

Audhumla
Thawing frost then became a cow called Audhumla. Four rivers of milk ran from her teats, and she fed Ymir.

Buri, Bor, and Bestla
The cow licked salty ice blocks. After one day of licking, she freed a man’s hair from the ice. After two days, his head appeared. On the third day the whole man was there. His name was Buri, and he was tall, strong, and handsome.

Buri begot a son named Bor, and Bor married Bestla, the daughter of a giant.

 

[twinc]

as a Catholic when all is said and done what was accepted by Jesus Christ and our first Pope is good enough for me - so away with all these wacky,weird, way out alternatives - twinc

 

[StAnastasia]

as a Catholic when all is said and done what was accepted by Jesus Christ and our first Pope is good enough for me - so away with all these wacky,weird, way out alternatives - twinc

Twinc, you are certainly free to cling to those stories.

 

[grannymh]

Twinc, you are certainly free to cling to those stories.

As illustrated in the time of Noah, all humans have a spiritual soul with intellect and will in order to seek God and be in His friendship. This also means that one can freely choose the wrong “stories”. So that you know in advance, I, too, am free to cling to Noah’s ark or Catholic church in modern times.

Blessings,
granny

Recommended reading:
*In the Presence of Our Lord, the History, Theology, and Psychology *
of Eucharistic Devotion
by Father Benedict J. Groeschel, C.F.R., and James Monti.
ISBN 0-87973-920-7

 

[StAnastasia]

So that you know in advance, I, too, am free to cling to Noah’s ark or Catholic church in modern times.

Absolutely! As the Norse are to cling to the story of Ymir the giant and his cow.

 

[twinc]

Absolutely! As the Norse are to cling to the story of Ymir the giant and his cow.

what about Catholic Norse now and Noah - twinc

 

[StAnastasia]

what about Catholic Norse now and Noah - twinc

Norse Catholics could hold Ymir and the cow and Noah in equal esteem!

 

[grannymh]

Norse Catholics could hold Ymir and the cow and Noah in equal esteem!

Roman Catholics would not hold Ymir and the cow from the Norse creation myth in equal esteem with Noah and the prospect of eternal life with God.

Blessings,
granny

These two websites are from a program in our diocese. Suggestion: pass the two links to someone who is on the fence about coming back to the Catholic Church or who is thinking about joining. The second link gives general information.

 

[StAnastasia]

Roman Catholics would not hold Ymir and the cow from the Norse creation myth in equal esteem with Noah and the prospect of eternal life with God.

They could respect both stories in different ways, as both tell mythic truth.

 

[juliamajor]

no, the Bible reads as though it were recording historical and real events.

were it to read as a mythical account, it would open with a disclaimer that the following narratives were fables, myths, and allegories designed to teach and help people, but not to be taken as fact.

instead, the Bible opens with “in the beginning, God created…”, and goes from there. it presents itself as fact, as history, as God in history, and it is human skepticism, disbelief, and interpretation which project the concept of “myth” onto the text, in part or in full.

I don’t think that it was part of biblical practice to write disclaimers- who the heck would hold them liable?

 

[juliamajor]

The bible gives a different take on the matter, and God instructs Noah as to the exact specifications of the Ark. It’s not round, according to the Old Testament.

The Babylonian text has no bearing on what is in the OT with regard to Noah and the Ark.

Actually depending which text or variation you are using you there are many paralells with the Babylonian and Sumerian texts-which predate the biblical tale.

 

[juliamajor]

i’m not comparing it to any other text. obviously if a text assumes it tells the truth about the creation and formation of the world, it will not begin with a mythical disclaimer, and will not read as mythical accounts.

the Popul Vuh also reads as fact, and many, many of these narratives are strikingly similar to Genesis. further proof, in my eyes, that we all started out with the same truth, the same Story, the same narrative of how the universe and human life came to be. some cultures took it one way, others took it another.

it is recorded as was, however, in the Bible. which may well have been written down later than other similar sounding narratives telling blurred versions of the same Creation story, but which nonetheless contains the whole narrative, the true narrative, and the continuing narrative, taking the story from creation to geneologies, to nations, to Abraham, to the Hebrew nation, to Christ, and through Christ back to all the nations.

The Bible isn’t all narratives to see it that way is a huge error.To see and consider each book in the same light is an error. To read each book as if it were written by the same hand in the same era is a mistake.To read Genesis like Matthew is an error.Each book has it’s own texture.They come from different time periods whose use of language differs from the generation before it.whose cultural understanding is different.Whose cultural influences change.

 

[StAnastasia]

Actually depending which text or variation you are using you there are many paralells with the Babylonian and Sumerian texts-which predate the biblical tale.

Julia, yes – I listed these parallels in post # 30. I love the way the Hebrew scribes and theologians took the existing tale and wove it theologically into the fabric of Pentateuchal salvation history.

StAnastasia

 

[juliamajor]

Perhaps you would like to reword post 9 regarding human scientific knowledge. If something is not a real event, then all the scientists in the fields you mentioned have to prove that it could not have happened which means that it could never rain in a specific area of “ancient, pre-scientific, prehistoric bit of oral tradition.” (from Post 9) By the way, what kind of oral tradition is considered prehistoric?

Here’s another thought – Since it is my understanding that you teach theology, I would sincerely appreciate it if you would elaborate on the post 9, last sentence, in the context of your description “an ancient, pre-scientific, prehistoric bit of oral tradition.”

“Caring for the world and humankind” needs to be described by the theological how and why.

Thank you.

Blessings,
granny

www.CatholicsComeHomeRockford.org

www.CatholicsComeHome.org

When talking of human history anything before writing is “pre-historic” Has nothing to do with being primitive.