New Order of Mass coming soon?

[JimG]

I call the current rite “The Mass.” I call the older rite “The Tridentine Rite.” They are both OK with me. “Novus ordo” just has a new age sound to it. Personal preference, I suppose.

I just wish that priests would more frequently use the Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer #1).

 

[StSteverino]

? Ok, I just got confused Are you saying that there’s a committee that is translating the Latin(as in Tridentine) Mass into English and other vernacular languages, or are you talking about the Novus Ordo? If it’s the former, then are there churches in the US that celebrate the Tridentine Mass in English? Or am I just confusing myself more?

All Church documents are written in latin first. Our vernacular mass is the New Order Mass translated from latin.

The Tridentin Mass has been translated into vernacular only for the purpose of following along. It may never be said in vernacular.

I have heard and enjoyed the Novus Ordum in latin and it is a different mass. The original latin refers to Christ as an immaculate sacrifice. The vernacular dumbs it way down.

There is nothing magic about latin. There are beautiful, ancient and valid liturgies in Greek, Aramaic, Russian, you name it.

But I do think the sense, if not the ultimate conclusions of the SSPX’ers is correct; forces in the Church, using the prestige of Vat II even if not its specific directives, are desacralizing the mass and everything around us. They hate statues, vaulted ceilings, stained glass windows and they want to bring everything down to just good plain bible chapel minded amen meeting style worship such as you have with the new church they might be starting in the aerobic dance room at your YMCA.

You can have the mass on top of a jeep in a combat zone, but in better times give me the real old time religion; tabernacles, adoration knaves and Marian altars included.

 

[Iohannes]

Correction: The SSPX recongize Pope John Paul II as the current pope.

 

[bear06]

Iohannes:

Correction: The SSPX recongize Pope John Paul II as the current pope.

This is correct. They just don’t submit to him where he has jurisdiction. But alas, that’s a whole other story.

 

[JRJ26]

this may be off topic: I’ve been doing some research on the Tridentine Mass, and I was wondering if there’s a universal Indult for the Mass. If not, is the Church thinking about this? If so, then how can we go about getting more Tridentine Masses?

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Voice_Of_Reason:

Just to clarify, the Traditional Latin Mass is older than 400 years. The 400 number usually is in terms of from the period period of the Council of Trent to Vatican II. The Concil of Trent did “reform” as Pope St. Pius V and the Council of Trent and “removed all those accretions that had been added (to the Mass) from the fifth century onwards.”

While that’s true, it then opens the door to the fact that the newest order of the Mass can be seen as a reform, and thus a continuation of, the Tridentine rite. While there are some striking changes, a Novus Ordo said in Latin, ad orientem, with the Roman Canon, having reception of the Eucharist on the tongue at a communion rail, etc., would be quite recognizable as a simplification of the Tridentine rite (the things that make it seem so foreign are normally options that didn’t have to be followed at its promulgation but now must be done either de jure or de facto). That’s why it seems safest to base the ages on promulgations of revisions to the Mass - that of Pope St. Pius V in 1570 and that of Pope Paul VI in 1970.

 

[Little_Irish]

In our churches in Northern Michigan small changes have been taking place since last summer. Last weekend the biggest change happened and may be happening elsewhere. After the Fraction Rite (the Lamb of God) when the priest says, “This is Jesus who takes away the sins of the world…” we are to remain standing and stand until after everyone has received Holy Communion. Then we sit and meditate. I find this very disturbing and am not sure I can do what is asked. I prepare to recieve Our Lord on my knees during this time. Quietly reflecting, not thinking about community. Community is all around me in the Body of Christ. After Communion I want to kneel and let the Lord speak to my heart, not sing! I am still waiting to hear if this is being implemented nationwide or if it is mandatory. Many churches/diocese have already done this.

 

[Mysty101]

hey

 

[Voice_Of_Reason]

JRJ26:

this may be off topic: I’ve been doing some research on the Tridentine Mass, and I was wondering if there’s a universal Indult for the Mass. If not, is the Church thinking about this? If so, then how can we go about getting more Tridentine Masses?

From all I know, all Indults are supposed to go by the 1962 Missal. Correct me if I’m wrong anyone.

As for getting more Traditional Masses, e-mail politely your Bishop/Diocese and get others to do so as well. That’s what I did and here we should get an Indult next year if all goes to plan.

 

[Brendan]

Little Irish:

In our churches in Northern Michigan small changes have been taking place since last summer. Last weekend the biggest change happened and may be happening elsewhere. After the Fraction Rite (the Lamb of God) when the priest says, “This is Jesus who takes away the sins of the world…” we are to remain standing and stand until after everyone has received Holy Communion. Then we sit and meditate. I find this very disturbing and am not sure I can do what is asked. I prepare to recieve Our Lord on my knees during this time. Quietly reflecting, not thinking about community. Community is all around me in the Body of Christ. After Communion I want to kneel and let the Lord speak to my heart, not sing! I am still waiting to hear if this is being implemented nationwide or if it is mandatory. Many churches/diocese have already done this.

Irish,

The standing postion is NOT mandated by the GIRM, in fact quite the opposite

Cardinal George asked the Vatican to clarify the issue

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?

Responsum: Negative, et ad mentem. The mens is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

In the implementation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, therefore, posture should not be regulated so rigidly as to forbid individual communicants from kneeling or sitting when returning from having received Holy Communion.

nccbuscc.org/liturgy/innews/703.shtml

While standing prior to the reception of the Eucharist may be mandated by the Bishop of the Diocese, it cannot be done by a parish priest.

Which diocese are you in? Gaylord? Marquette? I am unaware of any Bishop in the Michigan Province that has mandated a standing position, though I could easily be uninformed if that did actually happen.

In any case, the Bishop cannot mandate that you stand after reception, as that has been permitted by the Vatican.

 

[Little_Irish]

We are in the Diocese of Gaylord and instructions were given to all the priest to implement these changes beginning in Advent. Our church did them last weekend because our deacon would be gone. I believe our bishop has some very liberal priest advisors who have steered him in this direction. Other changes were made as well last summer but they were relatively small. This is a big one for me.

 

[Voice_Of_Reason]

Might be a bit off topic, but what are the guidelines for using a processional Crucifix? We have no Indult Mass in Orlando, and I noticed on some of the videos like that online of Bishop Riffan that no Crucifix is used during the procession. Or atleast I don’t remember seeing one. However, the starting point of the procession near the alter is very short. Anyway, the local parish I attend usually has an older assistant holdinf the Crucifix during the procession. However, when he doesn’t attend the Mass, there is no Crucifix carried in. As well, there is a woman who reads the first and second readings and I believe an EOMOTHE (not a deacon, never saw him in deacon attire unless you count a tux as that now) involved in the procession. Correct me if I’m wrong, but last I knew assistants like alterboys, deacons, and priests were the ones who are supposed to be in the procession?

Anyway, back on the Crucifix. To cut to the chase, when Is the Crucifix necessary in a procession before and after Mass?

Thanks for the replies.

 

[StSteverino]

Andreas Hofer:

While that’s true, it then opens the door to the fact that the newest order of the Mass can be seen as a reform, and thus a continuation of, the Tridentine rite. While there are some striking changes, a Novus Ordo said in Latin, ad orientem, with the Roman Canon, having reception of the Eucharist on the tongue at a communion rail, etc., would be quite recognizable as a simplification of the Tridentine rite (the things that make it seem so foreign are normally options that didn’t have to be followed at its promulgation but now must be done either de jure or de facto). That’s why it seems safest to base the ages on promulgations of revisions to the Mass - that of Pope St. Pius V in 1570 and that of Pope Paul VI in 1970.

I have attended the Novus Ordo in Latin and its quiet beautiful. It is also distinctly sacrificial and speaks of Christ as our Sacrificium Immaculatum.

The vernarcular English is ugly and base by comparison. What we need is bold and beautiful language commensurate with the Latin. The language of the mass should be that of love and beauty and not mere transaction.

So I think, and I think the concerns of many who are attracted to ultra Traditionalism would be addressed.

There has been an un-Christly effort to desacralize and protestantize our worship and join the new age blend and believe what you like style of democratized praise services.

Read the Restoration Manipulation.