New outreach to Catholics as Biden meets with Cardinal Timothy Dolan in New York

[bellasbane]

Vice President Joe Biden attended mass and received communion on Sunday at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York where the mass was celebrated by Cardinal Timothy Dolan…

Biden met with Cardinal Dolan after the mass for coffee but what they discussed was not made public.

Biden’s latest move comes at a time when the Obama administration appears to be using the VP in a new outreach to American Catholics.

irishcentral.com/news/New-outreach-to-Catholics-as-Biden-meets-with-Cardinal-Timothy-Dolan-in-New-York-199835071.html

I pray that both men were inspired by their trips to Rome and that they had a good talk after mass about how they can work together to reinforce a culture of life in the United States. Catholic views on social justice lies at the foundation of the Democratic party and I would like to see that strengthened in opposition to libertarian influences that have come to dominate it in recent years.

 

[Teelynn]

I have to go back and read Canon Law on this again. I would think that it was a little backward, unless I am mistaken. I would have thought that they would meet for coffee first and then he may possibly receive Communion, but as far as I understand it, only if Biden recanted his anti Church positions prior, and publically. But, maybe I’m wrong. I thought Canon Law was clear on this.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I have to go back and read Canon Law on this again. I would think that it was a little backward, unless I am mistaken. I would have thought that they would meet for coffee first and then he may possibly receive Communion, but as far as I understand it, only if Biden recanted his anti Church positions prior, and publically. But, maybe I’m wrong. I thought Canon Law was clear on this.

Canon 915:

Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P39.HTM

 

[Orogeny]

I pray that both men were inspired by their trips to Rome and that they had a good talk after mass about how they can work together to reinforce a culture of life in the United States. Catholic views on social justice lies at the foundation of the Democratic party and I would like to see that strengthened in opposition to libertarian influences that have come to dominate it in recent years.

I pray not that the Church adjust for life in the United States but that life in the United States adjust to the views of the Church, especially with regards to protection for the most defenseless and for religious freedom. I don’t hold much hope for that, but with God, everything is possible.

Peace

Tim

 

[bellasbane]

I have to go back and read Canon Law on this again. I would think that it was a little backward, unless I am mistaken. I would have thought that they would meet for coffee first and then he may possibly receive Communion, but as far as I understand it, only if Biden recanted his anti Church positions prior, and publically. But, maybe I’m wrong. I thought Canon Law was clear on this.

What difference does your reading Canon law make?

Cardinal Dolan is the only authority that matters. Clearly he knew Vice President Biden would be attending mass - the Secret Service would have made sure of that. I do not want this thread to degenerate into improper speculation about Biden’s fitness to receive communion or improper questioning of Cardinal Dolan’s authority to have the final say on what happens during his church services.

I want this thread to be about finding common ground upon which we can build unity among the faithful as well as with nonbelievers.

 

[dailey]

What difference does your reading Canon law make?

Cardinal Dolan is the only authority that matters. Clearly he knew Vice President Biden would be attending mass - the Secret Service would have made sure of that. I do not want this thread to degenerate into improper speculation about Biden’s fitness to receive communion or improper questioning of Cardinal Dolan’s authority to have the final say on what happens during his church services.

I want this thread to be about finding common ground upon which we can build unity among the faithful as well as with nonbelievers.

Oh brother, Obama is just trying to used Biden to get Catholics on his side, pathetic. He did the same thing with gays. Until Biden proclaims that he has changed his anti-catholic views, I could care less about anything he has to say.

 

[LisaA]

Vice President Joe Biden attended mass and received communion on Sunday at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York where the mass was celebrated by Cardinal Timothy Dolan…

Biden met with Cardinal Dolan after the mass for coffee but what they discussed was not made public.

Biden’s latest move comes at a time when the Obama administration appears to be using the VP in a new outreach to American Catholics.

irishcentral.com/news/New-outreach-to-Catholics-as-Biden-meets-with-Cardinal-Timothy-Dolan-in-New-York-199835071.html

I pray that both men were inspired by their trips to Rome and that they had a good talk after mass about how they can work together to reinforce a culture of life in the United States. Catholic views on social justice lies at the foundation of the Democratic party and I would like to see that strengthened in opposition to libertarian influences that have come to dominate it in recent years.

I think your terminology is mistaken. Libertarians focus not on social issues but on fiscal issues, lower taxes and LESS government interference in life. I don’t think that typifies the Democrat party. Maybe you meant libertine? You know homosexuality as an art form, abortion at will, free contraception. Sounds a bit like Rome before the invasion of the “barbarians…”

As to your last thought, wouldn’t it be nice if Joe Biden would practice his faith now and then. He might get good at it, who knows!

Lisa

 

[MaryT777]

Oh brother, Obama is just trying to used Biden to get Catholics on his side, pathetic. He did the same thing with gays. Until Biden proclaims that he has changed his anti-catholic views, I could care less about anything he has to say.

Me too.

 

[bellasbane]

Oh brother, Obama is just trying to used Biden to get Catholics on his side, pathetic. He did the same thing with gays. Until Biden proclaims that he has changed his anti-catholic views, I could care less about anything he has to say.

I am glad Cardinal Dolan is not of the same mind and clearly cares about maintaining a dialog with the Obama administration. I am sure he would not have welcomed Biden to his church if he did not believe the Vice President was acting in good faith.

 

[Teelynn]

What difference does your reading Canon law make?

Cardinal Dolan is the only authority that matters. Clearly he knew Vice President Biden would be attending mass - the Secret Service would have made sure of that. I do not want this thread to degenerate into improper speculation about Biden’s fitness to receive communion or improper questioning of Cardinal Dolan’s authority to have the final say on what happens during his church services.

I want this thread to be about finding common ground upon which we can build unity among the faithful as well as with nonbelievers.

Wow…I guess none. This much I know. You can’t find common ground on an untruth, but that being said, good luck with discussing the common ground the Church of Christ may have with people promoting the slaughter of the innocent and the abomination of gay “marriage”. The Church cannot change her teaching just to accommodate these poor souls. Charity is in all actuality telling them the truth, even if it’s painful.

Bottom line…common ground is needed but not at the expense of truth. Have a fruitful discussion…I’m out of here.

God Bless and Happy Holy Week

 

[livnlern]

I am glad Cardinal Dolan is not of the same mind and clearly cares about maintaining a dialog with the Obama administration. I am sure he would not have welcomed Biden to his church if he did not believe the Vice President was acting in good faith.

I agree with you that it’s good to have dialogue and to keep the lines of communication open. But some things are nonnegotiable.
And, Vice President Biden, as a long time politician, should be aware of whether he’s being used by the Obama administration to be the token Catholic and to make it seem like Catholics are on their side. He needs to speak out and give witness about things like abortion and same sex marriage. Otherwise he’s trying to play both sides of the fence.

 

[bellasbane]

I think your terminology is mistaken. Libertarians focus not on social issues but on fiscal issues, lower taxes and LESS government interference in life. I don’t think that typifies the Democrat party. Maybe you meant libertine? You know homosexuality as an art form, abortion at will, free contraception. Sounds a bit like Rome before the invasion of the “barbarians…”

Libertarianism refers to a political ideology that stresses both economic and personal liberty. That is how it has always been understood. The Republican party emphasizes one aspect of liberty (economic liberty) putting it in the Classic Conservative camp. The Democratic party the other aspect of liberty (personal liberty) putting it in the Classic Liberalism camp.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I would only add that neither party is ideologically pure. The issue of gun rights is a good example. Democrats are more willing to put constraints on the personal liberty of gun owners than are Republicans.

As to your last thought, wouldn’t it be nice if Joe Biden would practice his faith now and then. He might get good at it, who knows!

Lisa

Which is why we should celebrate, instead of complaining each time he goes to church.

 

[dailey]

I am glad Cardinal Dolan is not of the same mind and clearly cares about maintaining a dialog with the Obama administration. I am sure he would not have welcomed Biden to his church if he did not believe the Vice President was acting in good faith.

Wouldn’t that be wonderful if Biden did a complete turnaround and obeyed the churches teachings?? I guess we will just have to wait and see…

 

[dailey]

Wow…I guess none. This much I know. You can’t find common ground on an untruth, but that being said, good luck with discussing the common ground the Church of Christ may have with people promoting the slaughter of the innocent and the abomination of gay “marriage”. The Church cannot change her teaching just to accommodate these poor souls. Charity is in all actuality telling them the truth, even if it’s painful.

Bottom line…common ground is needed but not at the expense of truth. Have a fruitful discussion…I’m out of here.

God Bless and Happy Holy Week

Well said Teelynn. Happy Holy week to you as well!

 

[Hovannes]

Where is the line to be drawn between venerating the Eucharist and compliance with using the Body of Christ as a political football? Is that outreach?
My prayers, not criticism, for Timothy Cardinal Dolan. For Biden I can only shake my head and wonder. The Obama administration is manifestly evil to the core and Biden/Pelosi are the Obama’s “catholic poster children.” It is up to people of Cardinal Dolan’s expertise to deal with these quislings.

• I would fear for my soul* if I ever had to interact with the VP not to mention the Secret Service!

 

[bellasbane]

I agree with you that it’s good to have dialogue and to keep the lines of communication open. But some things are nonnegotiable.
And, Vice President Biden, as a long time politician, should be aware of whether he’s being used by the Obama administration to be the token Catholic and to make it seem like Catholics are on their side. He needs to speak out and give witness about things like abortion and same sex marriage. Otherwise he’s trying to play both sides of the fence.

I agree that some things are nonnegotiable. However, Cardinal Dolan is not being played for a fool. He is savy enough to know that he also has something to gain as well from maintaining good relations with the Obama administration and may welcome the having a Catholic connection in Biden through which to exert some influence.

There are two issues that I see as critical for the men to hammer out:

First, Biden may truly believe that the government does not have the authority under the Constitution to infringe upon a woman’s reproductive rights or deny marriage to same sex couples. These are issues that our system of government does not leave up to popular opinion or elected officials, but to the Supreme Court. If this is the case, then it is crucial that Biden and Dolan continue to maintain a dialog so that Dolan can influence the VP’s thinking and rhetoric on these topics. A home run would be great, but any progress is better than no progress.

Second, pro-life is much greater than pro-birth and in all other aspects of promoting life the Democratic Party has been a better partner to the Church than the Republican Party. It is important that these ties are enhanced and strengthened. I hope Cardinal Dolan and Biden build upon this to promote other life issues that cannot be ignored. Right now, supporters of euthanasia are looking for a political home. Just last year, Massachusetts democrats lead by the Church denied them a home in our state party. I want that to be reinforced nationally.

The clash between secular and religious authority is as old as the church. However, the rise of liberal democracies (like the U.S.) makes it harder for church leaders to exert their influence. This is because instead of needing to influence the will of one person (i.e., the king or dictator) church leaders must influence the will of all the people from whom a politician derives his/her authority. I think its a tough balancing act between pushing the politician in a certain direction, but not so far ahead of the people that he or she fails to get re-elected.

 

[LisaA]

Which is why we should celebrate, instead of complaining each time he goes to church.

I can’t “celebrate” our faith being used for a photo op. Biden is a sleazy politician and I do not believe his motives are pure…wanting dialogue. That being said, I understand he opposed the HHS Mandate. But you can see how effective he has been in changing the Obama obsession with abortion and birth control. It’s quite macabre.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Libertarianism refers to a political ideology that stresses both economic and personal liberty. That is how it has always been understood. The Republican party emphasizes one aspect of liberty (economic liberty) putting it in the Classic Conservative camp. The Democratic party the other aspect of liberty (personal liberty) putting it in the Classic Liberalism camp.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wfZyB5I6j...GJ-ef_Nu1M/s400/statism-vs-libertarianism.jpg

I would only add that neither party is ideologically pure. The issue of gun rights is a good example. Democrats are more willing to put constraints on the personal liberty of gun owners than are Republicans.

Theoretically maybe but the reality is that these terms have changed substantially. The Democrat party is FAR different than the one I grew up with. Somehow I cannot imagine John Kennedy or even Lyndon Johnson condoning the wholesale slaughter of the innocent yet abortion undert the guise of “reproductive rights” was CELEBRATED at the DNC.

 

[LisaA]

Libertarianism refers to a political ideology that stresses both economic and personal liberty. That is how it has always been understood. The Republican party emphasizes one aspect of liberty (economic liberty) putting it in the Classic Conservative camp. The Democratic party the other aspect of liberty (personal liberty) putting it in the Classic Liberalism camp.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wfZyB5I6j...GJ-ef_Nu1M/s400/statism-vs-libertarianism.jpg

I would only add that neither party is ideologically pure. The issue of gun rights is a good example. Democrats are more willing to put constraints on the personal liberty of gun owners than are Republicans.

Theoretically maybe but the reality is that these terms have changed substantially. The Democrat party is FAR different than the one I grew up with. Somehow I cannot imagine John Kennedy or even Lyndon Johnson condoning the wholesale slaughter of the innocent yet abortion under the guise of “reproductive rights” was CELEBRATED at the DNC.

The Democrat party today is far more libertine than libertarian. While the Libertarian platform is rather vague on the issues of abortion, the actual Libertarian politicians have teneded to be socially quite conservative. Killing babies isn’t the same as letting someone smoke pot. So you see the major Libertarians like Ron Paul espousing an anti-abortion stance and not conflicting with the focus of non-government intereference. YOU may claim that not allowing a woman to kill her unborn baby is “interference” but someone like Ron Paul believes that one of the few roles for the government is to protect the people…even the little people.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Where is the line to be drawn between venerating the Eucharist and compliance with using the Body of Christ as a political football? Is that outreach?
My prayers, not criticism, for Timothy Cardinal Dolan. For Biden I can only shake my head and wonder. The Obama administration is manifestly evil to the core and Biden/Pelosi are the Obama’s “catholic poster children.” It is up to people of Cardinal Dolan’s expertise to deal with these quislings.

My sentiments exactly! The Church is being used and even Cardinal Dolan stated this reality with respect to the HHS Mandate. He stated Obama misled him…basically that he lied to him and that Dolan cannot trust him to keep his word. Now Obama has sent Biden in the guise of a Catholic to Catholic dialogue. I hope and pray a conversion occurs…or as I said previously, an exorcism.

Lisa