New Pastor Making Changes in Mass

[mrshyde]

Our new pastor (he arrived in August) has been making some changes in the Mass. I would appreciate any information as to if these changes are within his rights to make. My research seems to back up my feeling that some of the changes are not appropriate, but I don’t have enough information.

The two of the most concern:

1. He has begun introducing each reading with several minutes of explanation as to the nature of the reading.
2. He has replaced the metal vessels used by our Eucharistic Ministers to distribute the consecrated wine with glass ones.

I realize that pastors do have authority to make small changes within the Mass at their discretion, but how far does that right extend?

 

[PBP]

You can purchase the newest GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal). This will completely describe what is the correct order of the mass and rules which the parish and celebrant must follow.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

mrshyde
The two of the most concern:

1. He has begun introducing each reading with several minutes of explanation as to the nature of the reading.

Nothing wrong with this, in my opinion.

1. He has replaced the metal vessels used by our Eucharistic Ministers to distribute the consecrated wine with glass ones.

I’ve seen several parishes using unbreakable glass chalices.
Are they all wrong? I don’t think so.

I realize that pastors do have authority to make small changes within the Mass at their discretion, but how far does that right extend?

Do yourself a favor. In a charitable way, ask your pastor about the changes. Place more confidence in him, than the protest you’ll read in here.

Jim

 

[ABiii]

Actually, I find that such pastors are more interesting because they care to teach the congregation ( who normally is too lazy to study the bible ).

Perhaps, if the pastor finds that the congregation is well learned in biblical studies, he would omit this.

 

[buffalo]

Our new pastor (he arrived in August) has been making some changes in the Mass. I would appreciate any information as to if these changes are within his rights to make. My research seems to back up my feeling that some of the changes are not appropriate, but I don’t have enough information.

The two of the most concern:

1. He has begun introducing each reading with several minutes of explanation as to the nature of the reading.
2. He has replaced the metal vessels used by our Eucharistic Ministers to distribute the consecrated wine with glass ones.

I realize that pastors do have authority to make small changes within the Mass at their discretion, but how far does that right extend?

1. Sacred Vessels From Redemptionis Sacramentum

[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.[205]The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,[206]so that honour will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. **Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. **This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.[207]

 

[JimR-OCDS]

1. Sacred Vessels From Redemptionis Sacramentum

[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.[205]The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,[206]so that honour will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.[207]

Many people who say that glass chalices are being used are actually seeing acrylic, not glass, which are unbreakable.

Jim

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Our new pastor (he arrived in August) has been making some changes in the Mass. I would appreciate any information as to if these changes are within his rights to make. My research seems to back up my feeling that some of the changes are not appropriate, but I don’t have enough information.

The two of the most concern:

1. He has begun introducing each reading with several minutes of explanation as to the nature of the reading.
2. He has replaced the metal vessels used by our Eucharistic Ministers to distribute the consecrated wine with glass ones.

I realize that pastors do have authority to make small changes within the Mass at their discretion, but how far does that right extend?

1. I believe that a short one or two sentence is permitted.
2. Absolutely, beyond an doubt forbidden, period!

 

[Lepanto]

1. He has begun introducing each reading with several minutes of explanation as to the nature of the reading.

This is what the homily is supposed to do.

 

[Ignatius]

1. Sacred Vessels From Redemptionis Sacramentum

[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.[205]The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,[206]so that honour will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.[207]

Many people who say that glass chalices are being used are actually seeing acrylic, not glass, which are unbreakable.

Jim

Please forgive me. You missed the most important important point in the above, that being “It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble”. Glass and acrylics are not ‘noble’ in any sense of the word.

 

[Phemie]

1. Sacred Vessels From Redemptionis Sacramentum

[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.[205]The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,[206]so that honour will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.[207]

Many people who say that glass chalices are being used are actually seeing acrylic, not glass, which are unbreakable.

Jim

How can acrylic possibly be considered suitable to hold the Body and Blood of Christ? Most people wouldn’t even consider acrylic suitable for fine wine or champagne, how can we think it could be suitable for Mass? It flies in the face of the statement above **“Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality”
**

FWIW, I haven’t seen any acrylic sacred vessels in religious supply catalogues. They sell blown glass or gold, silver, pewter & stainless steel ones.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

FWIW, I haven’t seen any acrylic sacred vessels in religious supply catalogues. They sell blown glass or gold, silver, pewter & stainless steel ones.

I stand corrected. I meant to say that it is “probably” acrylic.

Bottom line here is, the authority of the Bishops to approve what is being used in their dioceses.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Just playing on line, I decided to do a search for chalices. I haven’t been able to find anyone selling chalices made out of anything but metal. I wonder where they get these glass chalices?

I know my mother-in-law’s parish uses them.

Jim

 

[Brendan]

I stand corrected. I meant to say that it is “probably” acrylic.

Bottom line here is, the authority of the Bishops to approve what is being used in their dioceses.

Jim

There is an easy way to tell. Pick one up. Drop it on to a marble floor from about mid chest high (about where an Deacon would hold it while offering to a member of the faithful).

If it cracks or shatters, it was a prohibited chalice and should not have been used in the first place.

If it turns out to be acrylic, then write to the USCCB to have them approve acrylic for use as a liturgical vessel. Until they do, its a prohibited material.

 

[Brendan]

Just playing on line, I decided to do a search for chalices. I haven’t been able to find anyone selling chalices made out of anything but metal. I wonder where they get these glass chalices?

Some parishes bought Waterford or other crystal Wine goblets before RS clarified the prohibition.

 

[japhy]

1. He has begun introducing each reading with several minutes of explanation as to the nature of the reading.

First of all, he should use the homily as the time to explain the Scripture readings. While it makes sense to prepare the congregation for the liturgy of the day (esp. if it’s a solemnity or feast or memorial, such as for a saint), but there’s no need to give “mini-homilies” throughout the Mass.

That being said, the GIRM (#31) does allow for the priest to make remarks to the congregation: “The presiding priest … may give the faithful a very brief introduction to the Mass of the day (after the initial Greeting and before the Act of Penitence), to the Liturgy of the Word (before the readings), and to the Eucharistic Prayer (before the Preface), though never during the Eucharistic Prayer itself; he may also make concluding comments to the entire sacred action before the dismissal.” Such commentary, though, is to be “very brief”, and the introduction is specifically to the Liturgy of the Word (thus, one introduction before all the readings; not three introductions, one before each reaching).

1. He has replaced the metal vessels used by our Eucharistic Ministers to distribute the consecrated wine with glass ones.

Not a smart move at all. The use of glass for sacred vessels is reprobated (cf. Redemptionis Sacramentum, n. 117), which means it is not permitted and cannot be “grandfathered” into use. As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf puts it, “‘REPROBATE’ is a technical term which means that a practice may not continue and no claim to ‘time honored tradition’ or ‘custom’ can be used, nor can the practice even be reestablished so that it has the claim to custom. It is simply ended.” (Source)

The metal vessels, if they needed replacing, should have been replaced by better metal vessels.

Pray tell… what other changes has the priest made?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Some parishes bought Waterford or other crystal Wine goblets before RS clarified the prohibition.

And a few just heavy-duty glass goblets at Pier One. I know of several, actually.

In our diocese (here we go again), it’s precious metal or we’re supposed to report it. The bishop has a special fund to make sure ALL parishes use precious metal.

 

[Phemie]

Just playing on line, I decided to do a search for chalices. I haven’t been able to find anyone selling chalices made out of anything but metal. I wonder where they get these glass chalices?

I know my mother-in-law’s parish uses them.

Jim

The religious supply house I order from (Broughton’s in Toronto) has blown glass chalices & ciboria that are absolutely gorgeous and I don’t think they’d refuse to sell to a Catholic church because “you’re not allowed to use those”.

 

[grandfather]

Just playing on line, I decided to do a search for chalices. I haven’t been able to find anyone selling chalices made out of anything but metal. I wonder where they get these glass chalices?

I know my mother-in-law’s parish uses them.

Jim

K-Mart, Target. They are called wine glasses.

 

[John_Lilburne]

The 1981 Introduction to the Lectionary has:
“42. The one presiding is responsible for preparing the faithful for the liturgy of the word on occasion by means of introductions before the readings. [footnote 70: See General Instruction of the Roman Missal, no. 11.] These comments can help the gathered assembly toward a better hearing of the word of God, because they enliven the people’s faith and their desire for good. He may also carry out this responsibility through other persons, the deacon, for example, or a commentator. [footnote 71: See ibid. no. 68].” (From Lectionary Volume 1 Study Edition, Collins Liturgical Australia, 1983, ISBN 0 00 599764-X, page xxvii.)

The footnotes are referring to the 1975 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) not the 2002 GIRM.

1975 GIRM n. 11 has “… to the liturgy of the word (before the readings), …”. So does 2002 GIRM n. 31: “to the Liturgy of the Word (before the readings),”.

My understanding of “introductions before the readings” is that there can be more than one introduction. So I think it is permitted to have an introduction before the first reading, another before the second reading and a third before the Gospel.

Perhaps there will be different interpretations of this sentence from the Latin edition of the Introduction to the Lectionary:
“42. Ad praesidem pertinet aliquando monitionibus introducere fideles in verbi liturgiam antequam lectiones proclamentur.”
(Ordo Lectionum Missae, Liberia Editrice Vaticana, 1981, ISBN 88-209-1356-9, page xxv.)

Similarly the GIRM’s “before the readings” in brackets indicates to me that there can be an introduction before each reading, not just one introduction to the Liturgy of the Word.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

K-Mart, Target. They are called wine glasses.

No, they’re not wine glasses, but chalices. In fact, the Passionist Retreat Center, where I use to go on retreat, used a glass chalice and I remember receiving from it. From what I remember, it was very thick glass which probably is very durable. It was elegant looking and I never thought there was a problem at the time.

Did they have the Bishops approval? This is a monastery so they probably come under the authority of the superior of their order.
However, I can say for certain.

Jim