New priests' group hopes to preserve vision of Vatican II

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The image included with the article shows a priest celebrating Mass with no chasuble on. Not a promising start.
 
Oh boy, Im 16 years old, and i dont want modern. I think most of my generation doesnt want modern either. We are enhcanted by the mystical, the beautiful, the transcendent power, of the Latin Mass. The NO is very beautiful as well, but i would prefer the EF. The NO can be a very beautiful Mass, if it isnt abused. Please go back to Tradition, after all…

Sacred Scripture

Magesterium

TRADITION
 
Oh boy, Im 16 years old, and i dont want modern. I think most of my generation doesnt want modern either. We are enhcanted by the mystical, the beautiful, the transcendent power, of the Latin Mass. The NO is very beautiful as well, but i would prefer the EF. The NO can be a very beautiful Mass, if it isnt abused. Please go back to Tradition, after all…

Sacred Scripture

Magesterium

TRADITION
I agree.

I think maybe the reason so many of us young, serious Catholics love traditional Catholicism is because we’ve had to grow up with modern Catholicism.

Maybe a modernized version of the faith was appealing to baby boomers, but our generation was raised on it, so we know very well that it’s pretty ******.
 
The image included with the article shows a priest celebrating Mass with no chasuble on. Not a promising start.
To be fair, the Mass is obviously taking place at a meeting in a conference room ( people are wearing name tags around their necks, there are circular tables around the room, and the Mass is being celebrated on a meeting table). I have seen the Vicar General of our diocese celebrate the same way in similar circumstances.
 
To be fair, the Mass is obviously taking place at a meeting in a conference room ( people are wearing name tags around their necks, there are circular tables around the room, and the Mass is being celebrated on a meeting table). I have seen the Vicar General of our diocese celebrate the same way in similar circumstances.
Then your vicar general was erring.

I attended mass in a conference center just recently. It was concelebrated by several priests. All wore proper vestments.

In the photo, we can see that the priest managed to bring a stole and the sacred vessels, so he could easily have brought a chasuble as well.
 
www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/faith/2012/jun/14/namaino1-new-priests-group-hopes-to-preserve-visio-ar-415804/

“The Rev. David Cooper, a Milwaukee pastor and board chairman, says keeping the spirit of what was intended by the council — which opened in October 1962 and concluded in December 1965 — is urgent, given the direction the church seems to be taking.”
Fr. Cooper has had a dust-up with his bishop a few years ago over women’s ordination (nytimes.com/2009/02/24/nyregion/24dolan.html?pagewanted=all). If that is still part of the “spirit” of the group or not, I don’t know. Anyway, it seems to me that better adherence to, and understanding of, the texts of Vatican II would enable us to know and follow its spirit.

Dan
 
Was there a Vat2 document about it?
I think that is the problem. There are documents about correct vestments written after Vat II, but no documents about abandoning the correct vestments. This group says it wants to preserve Vatican II, but by reading the actual quotes from the group, that does not seem what they really want.

This quote from the article sums up the problems of this group for me. Bolding mine
The Rev. David Cooper, a Milwaukee pastor and board chairman, says keeping the spirit of what was intended by the council — which opened in October 1962 and concluded in December 1965 — is urgent, given the direction the church seems to be taking.
What exactly is the “spirit of the council” and who defines what that is? Surely the council itself in its documents and the current magisterium are the legitimate interpreters of the “spirit of the council,” like they are of every other council.
 
The spirit of Vatican II is one of the most widely misinterpreted elements in the modern Church. Liberal Catholics such as the Association of Catholic Priests in Ireland use this “spirit” as a justification for opening discussion on Church teachings on morality, priestly celibacy, women priests, etc.

Vatican II wanted to ensure that the Church’s teachings would be transmitted effectively and coherently to the modern world in a language they could understand. It never said anything about changing or watering down those teachings to suit the modern era. This is where the problem lies with many of these contemporary movements.
 
oh boy, im 16 years old, and i dont want modern. I think most of my generation doesnt want modern either. We are enhcanted by the mystical, the beautiful, the transcendent power, of the latin mass. The no is very beautiful as well, but i would prefer the ef. The no can be a very beautiful mass, if it isnt abused. Please go back to tradition, after all…

Sacred scripture

magesterium

tradition
AMEN
 
Vatican II wanted to ensure that the Church’s teachings would be transmitted effectively and coherently to the modern world in a language they could understand.
Perhaps. But the Reformers of the 16th and 17th century basically wanted the same thing, with the net result of eventually having created some 30,000 denominations, each with its own interpretation of scripture and its teachings.
 
I love the NO as i grew up with it. I love it, it is beautiful and still transcendent. However, The NO tends to lend itself to abuse, unfortunatley, as the rubrics arent as objective as the EF was (at least, thats my theory). Im sure they were abuses with the EF, but not as many, no changing the words. No altar girls, no COMMUNION on the hand etc. I have nothing against girls, and i dont think it is exclusive. People will say that because girls should get into the liturgy too, i dont think so. I may sound exclusive, im not trying to be, but whats next, oh well, we dont want women excluded, so lets let them become Priests? Women have a very critical life in the Church, always had, always will. We should thank them for their awesome contributions (Mother Angelica, i love you!!!), but feminism has ruined the dignity of womanhood, and in the process, manhood. The Liturgy is the one area where secularism doesnt get it, i want to keep it that way. So please, Lets move back to Tradition, Lets not become protestants. Watering down HOLY MASS, doesnt help the Faithful. HOLY MASS, both forms and both rites (EF and NO, and Eastern and Western repsectvley) are very potent, lets keep it at full strength. Holy Mother Church has always weathered the world, lets not fit in, WE ARE FROM THE WORLD, BUT NOT OF IT!! Im a Catholic, my country is Heaven, my sovereign is JESUS CHRIST, my head of state is The Pope and my officials are the Bishops and Cardinals of the Magesterium. My guidebook and moral code is the Holy Bible, and my rulebook is the Cathecism of the Catholic Church. So please remember, Sacred Scripture, Magesterium and TRADITION!!!
 
The image included with the article shows a priest celebrating Mass with no chasuble on. Not a promising start.
I was looking at the photo included with the article. It seems the average age represented is not particularly young. I get the impression that this may end up as a group of aging priests nostalgic for the 1960’s and the years immediately following the Council when everyone seemed to think that the Church was going to be radically changed. That was of course, wrong. All Ecumenical Councils seem to result in an immediate pendulum swing which is an overcorrection, but the pendulum does return to the center. I don’t think this group represents the future of the Church.
 
***“But with the tradition-minded Pope Benedict XVI at the helm of the 1 billion-member church, there’s been a slow shift toward returning to some of the old practices and structure. ***
***That’s a concern for some clergy.” ***

Uh-oh!
 
Oh boy, Im 16 years old, and i dont want modern. I think most of my generation doesnt want modern either. We are enhcanted by the mystical, the beautiful, the transcendent power, of the Latin Mass. The NO is very beautiful as well, but i would prefer the EF. The NO can be a very beautiful Mass, if it isnt abused. Please go back to Tradition, after all…

Sacred Scripture

Magesterium

TRADITION
Just be careful here not to equate the little-t “traditional” practices of the EF with big-T “Tradition” that all Catholics are required to observe. You can be obedient to Tradition and never attend an EF Mass in your life.
 
I love the NO as i grew up with it. I love it, it is beautiful and still transcendent. However, The NO tends to lend itself to abuse, unfortunatley, as the rubrics arent as objective as the EF was (at least, thats my theory). Im sure they were abuses with the EF, but not as many, no changing the words. No altar girls, no COMMUNION on the hand etc. I have nothing against girls, and i dont think it is exclusive. People will say that because girls should get into the liturgy too, i dont think so. I may sound exclusive, im not trying to be, but whats next, oh well, we dont want women excluded, so lets let them become Priests? Women have a very critical life in the Church, always had, always will. We should thank them for their awesome contributions (Mother Angelica, i love you!!!), but feminism has ruined the dignity of womanhood, and in the process, manhood. The Liturgy is the one area where secularism doesnt get it, i want to keep it that way. So please, Lets move back to Tradition, Lets not become protestants. Watering down HOLY MASS, doesnt help the Faithful. HOLY MASS, both forms and both rites (EF and NO, and Eastern and Western repsectvley) are very potent, lets keep it at full strength. Holy Mother Church has always weathered the world, lets not fit in, WE ARE FROM THE WORLD, BUT NOT OF IT!! Im a Catholic, my country is Heaven, my sovereign is JESUS CHRIST, my head of state is The Pope and my officials are the Bishops and Cardinals of the Magesterium. My guidebook and moral code is the Holy Bible, and my rulebook is the Cathecism of the Catholic Church. So please remember, Sacred Scripture, Magesterium and TRADITION!!!
Be careful of what you wish for. The EF is not immune from abuses, if you read the history of the Church with references to the history of the liturgy of the Roman Rite you can see that about 200 years ago about 80 out 120 French bishops were abusing the liturgy, that is not an isolated case. Catholic tradition is not based on slogans but on proper education.
 
Oh boy, Im 16 years old, and i dont want modern. I think most of my generation doesnt want modern either. We are enhcanted by the mystical, the beautiful, the transcendent power, of the Latin Mass. The NO is very beautiful as well, but i would prefer the EF. The NO can be a very beautiful Mass, if it isnt abused. Please go back to Tradition, after all…

Sacred Scripture

Magesterium

TRADITION
Never been to an EF, but as a Protestant, teenager, and future Catholic I want anything BUT modern. I find the NO beautiful. 🙂
 
These priests certainly have the right to work together for what they believe in, but I believe their efforts are misguided.

Vatican 2 was a great and far reaching council. It is taking time for us to digest and to give a more accurate vision of what was intended.

The liturgical experiments of the 70’s and 80’s went too far I believe. These priests are likely feeling left out as they grow older.
 
Vatican 2 was a great and far reaching council. It is taking time for us to digest and to give a more accurate vision of what was intended.

The liturgical experiments of the 70’s and 80’s went too far I believe. These priests are likely feeling left out as they grow older.
The seeds of the Mass reform were planted in 1948, if not 100 years before. This was evidenced by the Holy Week changes in 1955 and then the change in the Canon of the Mass itself in 1962. I’m of the opinion more changes were already on the drawing boards in the 50’s with only the right opportunity left to implement them.
 
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