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Sunflake9
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Needimprovment
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Hesychios
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That is a fallacy.
The rosary already existed, but did not exist in the form you use it at the time of the supposed apparition nor for many years afterward.
- The Hail Mary prayer was recited differently
- There were NO mysteries
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Robert_Burns
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Once again , As stated previously , I am not against anyone having devotion to them - but likewise - the Holy Rosary isnt the same devotion as that which JPII introduced. Its not the Rosary. Some people calll it “New Mysteries” or are devoted to it - But its not the Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary. That was the only point I was making.
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Robert_Burns
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Robert. Yes , in fact Pope Leo the XIII wrote 13 Papal Encyclicals on the Rosary and Marian Devotion more than any other Pope including JPII. St Louis Marie de Montforts book True Devotion to Mary , endorsed by JPII BTW and St Alphonsus Ligouri’s book (Founder of the redemptorrists) The Glories of Mary are sources I recommend as well
Pax
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simple_soul
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*My father, God rest His soul, had a favorite quote. “True progress is when each generation takes what the previous generation taught them, weeds out what does not work for them and adds anything new they were enlightened with that does work to make it better, and then teaches it to the next generation.”
I believe he was coming more from a livelihood perspective but I do believe this would apply to our progress in spirituality and prayers as well.*
I believe he was coming more from a livelihood perspective but I do believe this would apply to our progress in spirituality and prayers as well.*
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Robert_Burns
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Actually its not a bad comparison at all for the simple fact that the Holy Rosary came from the Marian Psalter. the Marian Psalter is a devotion that came from the Divine Office which offers the 150 Psalms. Therefore - there are 150 Hail Mary’s in the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary. You cannot add 50 more Hail Mary’s anymore than you can add 50 more Psalms. And I agree with you - he didnt mandate it he offered it as a devotional , so it isnt part of the Holy Rosary from the Psalter as given to St Dominic and Blessed Alan as I stated earlier.
Pax
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Robert_Burns
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Assuming Man is the prime mover… I am not convinced that is true - GOD’s Grace is the constant.
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ElizabethPH
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Just because a Mystery has been added to the Rosary doesn’t mean you’ve added 50 more Hail Mary’s to the psalter.
Or need to make-up 50 more psalms to go with them. Just because the Rosary came from it doesn’t mean it has to be added to.
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GaryTaylor
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I don’t have any feeling about it either way. I Pray them on Thursday and the Fatima Prayer included always now.
But I know a few who simply came before this period and don’t. I see no issue either way.
But I know a few who simply came before this period and don’t. I see no issue either way.
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sauce
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Have had quite a few deep experiences while praying these mysteries. Something that stays with me all day. And greater appreciation for these moments in Christ’s life.
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Hesychios
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I suggest that you read The Lord by Father Romano Guardini (if you have not already done so). I think it will inspire you.
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Corki
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Yes, I pray them. I haven’t entirely gotten used to them but I am trying.
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mardukm
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That was awesome!!! I am a Copt and don’t normally pray the Rosary (our traditional devotional is the Agpeya, which is just as spiritualy enriching as praying the Rosary), but I really like the Luminous mysteries. I read somewhere that true Marian devotion is Christology. The Luminous Mysteries really help bring that out (as the very name suggests!) I don’t understand how anyone can object to meditations on Christ’s life.If we trace it further back to its origins, the Hail Mary actually comes from God.
I’ve already expressed a type of preference for the 3 conventional sets of mysteries, however I remain totally open to the Luminous mysteries - particularly when praying with others.
Only my limited personal opinion which follows here :
We would have to be totally aloof not to have noticed a type of erosion taking place in certain sectors of the Church ; an erosion of “the sense of the sacred” which doesn’t seem to have run its course just yet. Where it harms us the most as Catholics, is when there is no reverence or respect shown to our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Even a general casualness regarding our Blessed Lord in Holy Communion , will eventually foster incredulity - in His True, loving, Presence.
As Catholics this doesn’t bode well for us; particularly considering that the Holy Eucharist is the “source and summit of the Christian life” (Lumen gentium 11 ; CCC 1324.)
I believe part of the Church’s answer to this erosion of the sense of the sacred, are all the Eucharistic adoration chapels we see which have sprung up . You can bet that Our Blessed Mother is a poweful ally in having these chapels springing up - Her job is always to lead us or bring us to Jesus. that’s what She does. And this makes me wonder whether the Luminous Mysteries might also be meant for our time - this time of incredulity of God really being present in the Holy Eucharist, a lack of belief in the need for the sacrament of Reconciliation and actually a time of confusion in general.
In the fifth mystery we contemplate Jesus as the “source and summit” of our Christian life, truly and entirely present in the most holy Sacrament of the altar . We contemplate Holy Thursday - the feast of all priests.
In the first, we contemplate the first and only occasion of the simultaneous manifestation of all three Persons of the Holy Trinity in humanly sense perceptible form.
Although the Holy Rosary is not the “prayer of the Church” (the Liturgy of the Hours is the prayer of the Church) it is a staple for almost all of us who share a devotion to our Blessed Mother - Mary and it bolsters the Church. I love my Blessed Mother and I need Her dearly, but I just don’t seem to be able to imagine Her being displeased if we contemplate Jesus in the Holy Eucharist while invoking Her, or if we contemplate the Holy Trinity, and particularly our Heavenly Father’s words: " This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased " , and " This is my beloved Son; hear him." In these mysteries even our Blessed Mother herself reminds us, " Do whatever he tells you.”
So many Saints and Popes have prayed and recommended the Rosary ; to maintain the family, to defeat evil and as the preferred weapon. St. Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort wrote: “The rosary is the most powerful weapon to touch the Heart of Jesus, Our Redeemer, who so loves His Mother.”
As a side note : There are some grounds supporting the possibility that the Luminous Mysteries did not originate with Pope John Paul II , although they may have come to us “through” him.
However we pray the Rosary, let’s try to make sure we persevere.
Blessings
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blackrobe
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Absolutely. The Rosary is a private devotion. There are no rules, only suggestions and customs. Naturally some suggestions carry more weight than others, such as those from Popes.
AMDG
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Jea9
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You cannot compare public revelation to private revelation. It would be like comparing the miracle of the bread and fish with any miracle that has occurred at Lourdes or Fatima. These are private revelations, not required to be believed.
Yes, it is a holy devotion, but please do not put it on the same page as public revelation. Our Lady would not like that.
I am a convert, my husband and his family are very traditional Catholics and they are more focused on pre-Vatican II. His sister and mother won’t pray the Luminous mysteries for many of the same reasons people are posting on here. I told them why I felt a connection to them. They speak of His baptism which I so desperately wanted to receive, of His first miracle, of His instituting the Eucharist of which I so desperately wanted to partake. I told them how I would cry when using a devotional of the mysteries by St. Jose Marie Escriva (actually writings on these parts of the Gospel that someone has turned into a devotional for the mysteries) because they reminded me of what I couldn’t have yet, of how Communion with Holy Mother Church was what I wanted and needed. I still don’t think they pray them, but I think they have a better understanding. Maybe.
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simple_soul
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*Dear Robert Burns,
I try very hard to never “assume” our Apostolic Leaders are primarily moved by there human nature but by the Holy Spirit. I believe and trust that they have the integrity and guidance of the Holy Spirit to know the difference of weather or not it is God’s grace that moves them our their will. It is my integrity that I always try to question.*
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FrancisB
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If there were never innovations, much of what we love would not have ever existed. That is to say that much of what we now consider “tradition” was at some point an innovation. We would, for instance, have no music but the most ancient chants. Even much of the Gregorian tradition is a later addition. We would also lack the propers for many of the most important feasts and solemnities in the church calendar. We would have no Latin, for the use of Latin was an innovation, and the retention of it when it ceased to be the vernacular is also an innovation or sorts, since the early liturgy was in the vernacular (largely Greek or Aramaic). Our priests would be married if there were no innovation. Clerical celibacy didn’t become common until centuries after the founding of the church, and wasn’t normalised until the Middle Ages.
We can’t look at new trends in the church–especially matters of private devotion–and reject them simply because they are novelties. That is allowing human history and not the Holy Spirit to determine validity. We must look at the trends on their own terms and judge them by their own merits: where did they come from, what is their purpose, how do they glorify God, what do they teach us about the faith, &c. When we look at the Luminous Mysteries, we find that they are drawn from Scripture, follow the pattern of earlier sets of Rosary Mysteries, and seek to fill in some of the gaps that the earlier Mysteries had left in the ministry of our Lord. On these terms, I find it repugnant that someone would reject them on the grounds that there will then be too many Ave Marias. If you don’t want to pray them because you are used to doing it a different way, then that’s your decision. It’s a private devotion. But how can you attack something on numerological grounds and have it not sound like you’re practising sorcery rather than praying to the One True God?
We can’t look at new trends in the church–especially matters of private devotion–and reject them simply because they are novelties. That is allowing human history and not the Holy Spirit to determine validity. We must look at the trends on their own terms and judge them by their own merits: where did they come from, what is their purpose, how do they glorify God, what do they teach us about the faith, &c. When we look at the Luminous Mysteries, we find that they are drawn from Scripture, follow the pattern of earlier sets of Rosary Mysteries, and seek to fill in some of the gaps that the earlier Mysteries had left in the ministry of our Lord. On these terms, I find it repugnant that someone would reject them on the grounds that there will then be too many Ave Marias. If you don’t want to pray them because you are used to doing it a different way, then that’s your decision. It’s a private devotion. But how can you attack something on numerological grounds and have it not sound like you’re practising sorcery rather than praying to the One True God?
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Robert_Burns
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Robert: I try never to assume their motivations either. One thing is certain - the Deposit of Faith came from Jesus Christ , True God and True Man - on pentecost Sunday the holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and from the Son and has guided the Church ever since - keeping her within the Doctrine of Christ which hasnt been added to by Man. The Development of Doctrine isnt Evolution of Doctrine , rather , but a refined definition of that which has existed already given us directly by GOD , the Son and defined by Holy Mother the Church as applicable to the Situations that have arisen over the last 2000 Years. That fact is confirmed in Vatican Council I - which defined the reason for the Infallibility of the POPE which of course , is the Assistance of the Holy Ghost definitively.
Vatican Council I:
Session 4 : 18 July 1870
Chapter 4
- For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles.
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simple_soul
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I just have to ask, how does the addition of the luminous Mysteries to the Rosary go outside the Doctrine of Christ?
*Now you know why I believe the addition of the Luminous Mysteries to the Rosary by Pope John Paul II are a good addition. In his faith to lead us and guide us in all faith and morals, they will not fail to be a good addition and they will strengthen us. *
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lil_flower_luv
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Thank you.
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