New Rosary Mysteries

[simple_soul]

I am a child of the Church, who may speak about such matters, and whom charity may make speak about such matters.

*As am I and hopefully still am as I try in charity to speak on such matters to keep in mind my clear understand that I do NOT have the years of the Apostolic Church’s Teachings, Theologies and Traditions behind me to be qualified in saying or even implying that their Leadership and Guidance is in error. I know I do not have the Apostolic Blessings that an Apostolic Position is given so I tremble to even “think” about the evil I may cause in saying or even implying that they are leading us into error.

Maybe you believe you are qualified and may be you are. I know I am not. *

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Great question! This goes to the point of organic development. The new rosary and the new mass are not products of organic development in the hearts of the faithful like the Fatima prayer in the rosary is.The new rosary also lacks roots in the life of the Church. It has been attached to the rosary. Normally things flow from the heart of the Church in a slow organic fashion infused by the Holy Ghost over time .The new rosary and the new mass were invented in the minds of two men. Pope John Paul II and Annibale Bugnini. This is not how things normally become part of tradition in the Church unless we see some direct intervention of heaven to confirm the new thing like in the case of the Battle of Lepanto and St. Dominic’s vision.Which then bares fruit. Also we see a continuity between heaven the Battle of Lepanto,St. Dominic’s vision and Fatima which our lady gives us the Fatima prayer and calls for recitation of the 15 mysteries of the rosary. According to the book Our Lady of Fatima by William Thomas Walsh (Macmillan, 1947), in an interview with the author (p 225) Sr. Lucia states that, “The correct form is the one I have written in my account of the apparition of July 13: ‘O my Jesus, pardon us, and save us from the fire of hell; draw all souls to heaven, especially those most in need.’” So as obedient children the faithful in line with the sense of faith added the prayer as a organic development to the rosary in line with our mother’s request. That did not fundamentally change the rosary like the new rosary does. We hear that “Among all the devotions approved by the Church none has been so favored by so many miracles as the devotion of the Most Holy Rosary” (Pope Pius IX). Clearly the Pope here is speaking about a certain thing not what ever anyone thinks the rosary is. My point is the rosary is something now to some it is something else.Pope John Paul II has called the Rosary his “favorite prayer,” after the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours. So for those who claim the rosary is just another private devotion that doesn’t seem to line up with Pope John Paul II. So to answer your question no it is not wrong to add a prayer to the rosary.Like a Pope added the St. Michael prayer to the end of the low Mass in the Latin rite Flowing from a direct intervention of heaven.The fruit of the prayer does not need to mentioned. It is not correct to fundamentally change a thing and call it what it was before. Like the new mass which has a valid consecration but is fundamentally not the same liturgy that the Latin rite produced from the early Church till the 1960’s. At some point you have something new something different.Like the new rosary I hope that is clear. One grows organically from tradition one is imposed on tradition. At the end of the day it shows in the good fruit that is borne or the bad fruit that is borne that was how our Blessed Lord told us to judge a thing. If my memory serves the Pope didn’t say the luminous mysteries were from a vision of our lady.He merely suggested them in a non binding way. So couldn’t this send the wrong message to protestant heretics? As if we just make things up. After all we didn’t invent the 15 mysteries the way the 5 new ones were made up.

No Friend, they were not made up, but are taken from the devotion of Blessed Father Preca of Malta. Also, the Eastern Churches have the rosary and have used several of the Mysteries of Light for centuries.

In the Catholic Church, Popes can and have made recommendations to benefit the spiritual life of Catholics. This is so with the five Luminous Mysteries. Father Preca prayed them and so did his spiritual children.

 

[MEPayne]

I have recently started praying The Scriptural Rosary, which gives a little Bible quote for each Hail Mary said. It helps to focus and brings more depth and beauty to the Mysteries. The Luminous Mysteries are included, and I think they are an important addition. You can get a Scriptural Rosary booklet here, or simply follow online: (No, I am not affiliated)

www.scripturalrosary.org

 

[PioKolby]

Vatican 2 Restored Tradition. Thanks to this Council, the Church bears a closer resemblance to the early Church.

Yeah right :thumbsup:like at “orthodox” Franciscan University at Steubenville shown here youtube.com/watch?v=d-Eg7via3q8

The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies.

This promise, along with the next, is simply the reminder on how fervent prayer will help us all grow in holiness by avoiding sin, especially a prayer with the excellence of the Rosary. An increase in holiness necessarily requires a reduction in sin, vice, and doctrinal errors (heresies). If only the Modernists could be convinced to pray the Rosary! (see Lumen Gentium chapter V - The Call to Holiness #42) St. Louis de Montfort states “Since Mary alone crushed all heresies, as we are told by the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary)…” [True Devotion to Mary #167]

 

[StTommyMore]

Yeah right :thumbsup:like at “orthodox” Franciscan University at Steubenville shown here youtube.com/watch?v=d-Eg7via3q8

The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies.

This promise, along with the next, is simply the reminder on how fervent prayer will help us all grow in holiness by avoiding sin, especially a prayer with the excellence of the Rosary. An increase in holiness necessarily requires a reduction in sin, vice, and doctrinal errors (heresies). If only the Modernists could be convinced to pray the Rosary! (see Lumen Gentium chapter V - The Call to Holiness #42) St. Louis de Montfort states “Since Mary alone crushed all heresies, as we are told by the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary)…” [True Devotion to Mary #167]

You don’t need to show me a video pf FUS. I am a student there.

 

[Shin]

*As am I and hopefully still am as I try in charity to speak on such matters to keep in mind my clear understand that I do NOT have the years of the Apostolic Church’s Teachings, Theologies and Traditions behind me to be qualified in saying or even implying that their Leadership and Guidance is in error. I know I do not have the Apostolic Blessings that an Apostolic Position is given so I tremble to even “think” about the evil I may cause in saying or even implying that they are leading us into error.

Maybe you believe you are qualified and may be you are. I know I am not. *

Pardon me, but your attempt to shut down any and all discussion and concern about a document on the Rosary using this tactic… well…

You don’t know what you’re doing, that’s right, so maybe you should step out of the discussion. Certainly you need to get some of that passion you have attacked with out of your responses.

Stop bringing this discussion down to the level of ad hominem.

 

[StTommyMore]

Pardon me, but your attempt to shut down any and all discussion and concern about a document on the Rosary using this tactic… well…

You don’t know what you’re doing, that’s right, so maybe you should step out of the discussion. Certainly you need to get some of that passion you have attacked with out of your responses.

Stop bringing this discussion down to the level of ad hominem.

SS has attacked no one. In fact, he (she?) has been reasonable in defense of the Church, and not resorted to the typical accusations of “modernism” or wild conspiracy theories the the opposition has employed.

 

[Shin]

SS has attacked no one. In fact, he (she?) has been reasonable in defense of the Church, and not resorted to the typical accusations of “modernism” or wild conspiracy theories the the opposition has employed.

I will have to say this is the most conceited and condescending comment I believe I have ever read.
But, I understand and do sincerely believe that you believe that you are acting in all charity.

Thinly veiled? Not veiled at all really. I don’t consider acknowledging corruption or the possibility of simple problems or mistakes, ‘wild conspiracy theories’, anymore than I consider the founder of the Legion of Christ supported and acclaimed by Pope John Paul IInd being a sexual pervert, a wild conspiracy theory, or bishops conferences denying Catholic doctrine wild conspiracy theories, or Pope John Paul IInd appointing homosexual abuser bishops a wild conspiracy theory, nor do I consider altars destroyed and ripped apart, masses suppressed and replaced with sacrileges, Holy Communion given, then the fragments trodden under foot, wild conspiracy theories…

I consider that a factual reality that bursts some little bubbles people have.

They want to cover it up. Conceal it. Deny it. Rather than face that this isn’t a golden age for the Church, a springtime of happiness.

Many people are heartbroken by what is happening and has happened and still happens in the Church… Every day their traditions are denigrated, stepped on, squashed, ripped apart, torn out, modified, fiddled with, added to, optioned, made fun of, updated, criticized, or plundered.

But if they speak up about the problems this causes, the pain this causes, they are the ones to blame?

No. Sorry. Some people deserve some apologies… apologies not for the acts of the distant past, but for what is happening today.

 

[StTommyMore]

Thinly veiled? Not veiled at all really. I don’t consider acknowledging corruption or the possibility of simple problems or mistakes, ‘wild conspiracy theories’, anymore than I consider the founder of the Legion of Christ supported and acclaimed by Pope John Paul IInd being a sexual pervert, a wild conspiracy theory, or bishops conferences denying Catholic doctrine wild conspiracy theories, or Pope John Paul IInd appointing homosexual abuser bishops a wild conspiracy theory, nor do I consider altars destroyed and ripped apart, masses suppressed and replaced with sacrileges, Holy Communion given, then the fragments trodden under foot, wild conspiracy theories…

I consider that a factual reality that bursts some little bubbles people have.

They want to cover it up. Conceal it. Deny it. Rather than face that this isn’t a golden age for the Church, a springtime of happiness.

Many people are heartbroken by what is happening and has happened and still happens in the Church… Every day their traditions are denigrated, stepped on, squashed, ripped apart, torn out, modified, fiddled with, added to, optioned, made fun of, updated, criticized, or plundered.

But if they speak up about the problems this causes, the pain this causes, they are the ones to blame?

No. Sorry. Some people deserve some apologies… apologies not for the acts of the distant past, but for what is happening today.

I will concede that the Church is having difficulties right now. It is to be expected. After all, immediately after the institution of the Eucharist, the Church had its darkest period ever: the Crucifixion. I will say that I firmly believe that we are right around the corner from a great renewal in the Faith.

 

[laszlo]

Do you remember St. Peter and St. Paul? Do you take it into account?

If so what are we in conflict about?

1./ St Paul was Jesus Christ chosen Apostle

2./ St Paul **stood up **to St peter, face to face, not for everyone behind his back

3./ St Paul convinced St Peter (Act 15, second time; the first was the vision of the snakes and the baptism of Cornelius), that the gentiles are called by our Lord without the obligations of the Law

 

[PioKolby]

You don’t need to show me a video pf FUS. I am a student there.

Yeah that is very telling. I now understand why you so passionately defend the new rosary. That school is infected with the heresy of protestantism. cfnews.org/GardenHeresy.htm Scott Hahn is a decent man. His role as a theologian and convert has had negative impact on Catholic identity in America. Just in time for the new rosary. His role at FUS.and EWTN is not proper to a convert. We have theologians in the Latin Rite. We have a Mass in the Latin rite. We have a rosary in the Latin Rite it has 15 mysteries. Sorry I drew a line in the sand years ago with the hijacked version of the Church. I will not support the lie in anyway. The rosary with it’s 15 mysteries and it’s 15 promises youtube.com/watch?v=NCCCKqX7k3w will undo the error you picked up at FUS. God Bless you!
**“For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears”
-2 Timothy 4:3
**

youtube.com/watch?v=d-Eg7via3q8

 

[Shin]

1./ St Paul was Jesus Christ chosen Apostle

2./ St Paul stood up to St peter, face to face, not for everyone behind his back

3./ St Paul convinced St Peter (Act 15, second time; the first was the vision of the snakes and the baptism of Cornelius), that the gentiles are called by our Lord without the obligations of the Law

And this has what to do with discussing a document on the Rosary?

If you believe that only Apostles can discuss on a public Catholic forum possible problems with documents that have nothing to do with the infallible Magisterium, then what are you doing here on this forum in the first place and how dare you open your mouth on the subject matter pro or con at all?

I certainly hesitate to speak more than a little on these subjects. So if people cannot get off the ad hominem subject completely, I will respond to that much. Folks… can we stick to the subject matter and not try to ascribe false standards and requirements for people to speak at all, in attempts to crush viewpoints?

If you don’t have the tools you want to discuss the point don’t descend any to try to ‘win’. Let go of the emotion. Give the subject up to God.

“For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears”

• 2 Timothy 4:3

Very true. Sigh. And so the worst happens, people are given what they want, instead of what they need.

 

[StTommyMore]

Yeah that is very telling. I now understand why you so passionately defend the new rosary. That school is infected with the heresy of protestantism. cfnews.org/GardenHeresy.htm Scott Hahn is a decent man. His role as a theologian and convert has had negative impact on Catholic identity in America. Just in time for the new rosary. His role at FUS.and EWTN is not proper to a convert. We have theologians in the Latin Rite. We have a Mass in the Latin rite. We have a rosary in the Latin Rite it has 15 mysteries. Sorry I drew a line in the sand years ago with the hijacked version of the Church. I will not support the lie in anyway. The rosary with it’s 15 mysteries and it’s 15 promises youtube.com/watch?v=NCCCKqX7k3w will undo the error you picked up at FUS. God Bless you!
**“For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears”
-2 Timothy 4:3
**

youtube.com/watch?v=d-Eg7via3q8

Smearing good Catholics is not acceptable. I think I read that somewhere.

 

[PioKolby]

Smearing good Catholics is not acceptable. I think I read that somewhere.

Sound doctrine is more important that feelings. No smear here just the facts. Like I said Scott Hahn is a decent man. I assume he means well. I judge his influence not his intention or heart those are known to God alone.That doesn’t mean he or the new rosary should be followed or prayed. So what miracles do you know of linked directly to the new rosary? Any big conversion stories? Any mention of the new rosary by Our Lady in visions?

latinmassmagazine.com/

 

[simple_soul]

Pardon me, but your attempt to shut down any and all discussion and concern about a document on the Rosary using this tactic… well…

You don’t know what you’re doing, that’s right, so maybe you should step out of the discussion. Certainly you need to get some of that passion you have attacked with out of your responses.

Stop bringing this discussion down to the level of ad hominem.

*Shin, I do not even know what to say to this. I am not even sure I fully understand what an ad hominem attack is. But if it is something that I should not have done and if I did do this I apologize. But I really do not see the difference between what I said and in what you said here

“But, many people do not understand the troubled times we are in, and think that things are much better than they are. So they become quite distraught at any suggestion matters are otherwise… because it interrupts a beautiful little dream.”.

or by implying that others have

“some little bubbles”

I only meant to defend our Apostolic Church Leaders in their leadership and guidance. Period! I understand that they are human and they can make mistakes, but God’s Truth will still be revealed to us through them. I believe it is one thing to point out they are human and have a sinful nature and what those sins are. But it is quite another thing to claim that because of their errors, their leadership, and their guidance should be looked at as being corrupt. I do believe that the Holy Spirit will work through all of them, regardless of their human weaknesses, to lead us into unity and into the fullness of God’s Truth. *

 

[StTommyMore]

Sound doctrine is more important that feelings. No smear here just the facts. Like I said he is a decent man. I assume he means well. I judge his influence not his intention or heart those are known to God alone.That doesn’t mean he or the new rosary should be followed or prayed. So what miracles do you know of linked directly to the new rosary? Any big conversion stories? Any mention of the new rosary by Our Lady in visions?

All straw men. Every last one. First, Dr. Scott Hahn has forgotten more about theology than either you or I know. Confirmed miracles are not the measure of the validity of a devotion. Matters of devotional discipline are open to modification by the Holy See, and do not need the approval of an apparition On the contrary, apparitions need approval of the Holy See.

 

[simple_soul]

Sound doctrine is more important that feelings. No smear here just the facts. Like I said he is a decent man. I assume he means well. I judge his influence not his intention or heart those are known to God alone.That doesn’t mean he or the new rosary should be followed or prayed. So what miracles do you know of linked directly to the new rosary? Any big conversion stories? Any mention of the new rosary by Our Lady in visions?

They got me to start believing in our Apostolic Leaders and in their leadership and guidance more.
Does that count?

 

[PioKolby]

All straw men. Every last one. First, Dr. Scott Hahn has forgotten more about theology than either you or I know. Confirmed miracles are not the measure of the validity of a devotion. Matters of devotional discipline are open to modification by the Holy See, and do not need the approval of an apparition On the contrary, apparitions need approval of the Holy See.

Answer: None no fruit to speak of Tradition still stands! Thanks for making my point. No fruit no thanks!

hsjoy.blogspot.com/2009/05/power-of-rosary.html

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/9827881/The_last_unfinished_sermon_of_a_wonderful_priest/

 

[StTommyMore]

Answer: None no fruit to speak of Tradition still stands! Thanks for making my point. No fruit no thanks!

You are actually rejecting Tradition. You know, the one about humble submission to the Pope and the Bishops. Your radicalism is a very short step from sedevacantism. You need to desist from the obsession with some “golden age” of the Church that never existed.

 

[Melchior_1]

His role at FUS.and EWTN is not proper to a convert.

I need a clarification; do you mean to tell me that converts cannot perform these functions? Or Just Scott Hahn?