New SOLT Statement re: Father Corapi

[Chipper]

This isn’t a criminal case! Mr. Corapi .

Oh man you folks like to put words in everyone’s mouth just to get your point of debate across.

I never said it was a criminal case…sheessshhh

 

[surfinpure]

Truly missing the point.

I read JR’s posts. None of them explained how an OLD MAN with heart problems can do all this stuff.’

We don’t need an explanation. I have no reason to doubt SOLT, which has everything to lose and nothing to gain from making the statement they did. This isn’t a civil trial. They opened an investigation. Fr. Corapi impeded it. They did their best under the circumstances and were still able to come up with enough evidence.

If he truly wanted it to proceed to a canonical trial, he’d release his ex-employees from their non-disclosures and quit the suit against his accuser. Then we might have an actual verdict one way or the other someday. But since he continues to refuse to cooperate, this is the best they could do. I think it’s quite enough, actually. Again, I have absolutely no reason to believe Fr. Corapi over SOLT - in fact, quite the contrary, based on his current behavior.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Not quite accurate. He was miss diagnosed, but, he still has problems.

SO I guess you are saying that your 70 year old grandfather, is proof that doing drugs, getting drunk, riding around on speedboats/ atv’s and motorcycle, and jumping into bed with prostitutes - is something your grandfather is capable of doing???

Come on!!!

Since my father in law has never done any of those things, at any age, NO he is not proof that another person could or couldn’t do them.

I’m sorry I first mentioned him as an example of an “older” person in good health doing many physical things. I do not like your implications, so please do not mention him again.

 

[Chipper]

The heart problems were a mis-diagnosis.
Not even the gov’t would call Fr. Corapi, at 64 yo, an “old” man.

The government doesn’t think there is anything wrong with abortion either.

That doesn’t mean they are right.

 

[surfinpure]

Not quite accurate. He was miss diagnosed, but, he still has problems.

SO I guess you are saying that your 70 year old grandfather, is proof that doing drugs, getting drunk, riding around on speedboats/ atv’s and motorcycle, and jumping into bed with prostitutes - is something your grandfather is capable of doing???

Come on!!!

As a matter of fact, my father, a long time heart patient who had a triple bypass at 67, earned his 3rd degree black belt at age 70, while still going fishing, riding on boats, and (as far as we know) being sexually active. It’s absolutely possible.

But this is a red herring argument. Have you a source stating his medical condition that the rest of us have not seen? If so, please share…

 

[Phemie]

Oh man you folks like to put words in everyone’s mouth just to get your point of debate across.

I never said it was a criminal case…sheessshhh

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept which doesn’t come into play here.

Outside of the law I go by ‘If there’s smoke there’s fire.’

 

[Phemie]

Truly missing the point.

I read JR’s posts. None of them explained how an OLD MAN with heart problems can do all this stuff.’

Good grief, 64 is not old. You are speaking of him as though he were decrepit. He looks in better shape than many 50 year olds I know.

 

[catharina]

The government doesn’t think there is anything wrong with abortion either.

That doesn’t mean they are right.

I’ll re-phrase for you.

Few among mainstream Americans would consider
a 64-yr old man to be an “old” man. So I have to
guess you are very very young, perhaps?

 

[Corki]

However, that is not the issue. His PROMISES of poverty were broken by his amassing of personal wealth. That he apparently chose to spend it on vechicles he may or may not use is not the point.

I am not taking a position on the Father Corapi issue but I want to clarify one point. According the the SOLT statement from back in June, Fr. Corapi was not under the same promises that the members of the society take today. At the time Fr. Corapi joined, the founder had agreements with the priests that did not necessarily include poverty or living in community.

In 1994, the Society approved a new Constitution. The NCRegister article includes this portion (bolding mine):

“The founder’s arrangement with Father Corapi was established before that time, when Father Flanagan believed that every mission should take care of its own needs,” noted Father Sheehan at that time. “Now, according to our constitution, a different way of life has been established for members. All the money we make is turned over to the society, which gives us an allowance.”

During that interview, Father Sheehan confirmed that SOLT had “begun to address the issues of members who joined the society before the new constitution. The society is moving to a more organized structural phase of its existence, with all the Church discipline that entails.” The implication of his remarks was that Father Corapi had not accommodated the discipline imposed by the new constitution.

So, you could say that Father was chosing not to comply with the new rules but you can’t really say he broke his promise of poverty because that wasn’t part of his association with the SOLT.

The new constitution requiring members turn over their money may have been a source of tension between the society and Fr. Corapi since it seems they only began to address the “issues of members who joined the society before the new constitution” after Fr. has recieved a large settlement and was becoming more successful in his media ventures. It is one thing for a person to enter religious life knowing he will be forgoing all personal possessions and quite another to enter under one set of “rules” and then later be asked to forgoe all.

This is not to say that SOLT’s new rule isn’t a good one or that there were any ill motives behind the rule change but that it was probably an ongoing source of friction.

 

[centurionguard]

Actually this is no longer the reality. Mr. Corapi is a priest, he is no longer respected and has been instructed by his superior to return. Respected??? For apparently violating his vows of poverty, sexting, etc. He will definitely be in my prayers but he will not be respected until he fully submits to his superiors, addresses all the aspects of the investigation under the rules to which he is subjected and he might want to consider stop accusing Bishops of conspiring against him.

Maybe you do not understand the full context of slander.

newadvent.org/cathen/14035b.htm

Even if one is a sinner and people speak against such sinner, defaming them with the slightest of evil intent it is still slander.

None of the accusations brought against Father Corapi have been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt despite what has been convincingly or seemingly disclosed by SOLT.

 

[surfinpure]

None of the accusations brought against Father Corapi have been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt despite what has been disclosed by SOLT.

Proven to you, or proven to the investigators? Because unless you’ve reviewed the evidence yourself, you can’t possibly determine whether there can be any doubt left as to his guilt.

If, for example, I were on the investigative team and personally saw the texts sent, saw photos, talked to neighbors who witnessed his cohabitation, etc., I would have no doubt remaining.

The doubt remains with the public who is not privy to this information, nor should we be. But let’s not get into the business of telling SOLT they didn’t see the evidence and determine correctly what was going on before releasing a statement that could put them in a very vulnerable position if they’re wrong. Bad idea.

 

[whm]

I don’t know. Maybe you are right that no one is defending sin but when people doubt the truth as spoken by his community and his superiors it seems that they are at least ignoring the authority that is over Fr Corapi and rather than defending sin they are denying it. So the blinders comment seems a bit valid, at least on the surface.

For whatever reason the order does not appear to have exercised much authority or oversight over Fr. Corapi in the past. As a parent I know what happens when you do not exercise authority, it weakens your authority. Do you think that SOLT has a certain amount of responsibility for this mess, not of course the alleged sins as those are a mans own sins, but for enabling a situation conducive to these activities? According to Fr. Corapi he was also getting conflicting advice from the order’s founder (who may very well have not known all of the facts), who I assume is “retired” since there is a different person in charge of the order now. Opportunity is a big factor in sin, particularly for a recovered addict. Is that not why many orders are cloistered and/or live in community? I realize they changed their rule back in 1994, but non the less they did not address it with him, again for reasons we don’t know.

How could they possibly not know about his wealth, possessions, living arrangements etc. its like he wasn’t even a member of an order at all? It is still really weird. Perhaps they did try to address this and he was resisting, then in hind sight it appears to have been a mistake not to be more forceful.

I am really interested in your perspective on this. What responsibility does an order have for the welfare of its member? Thanks for your insight.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I’ve said this before, on other threads and other fora, but it bears repeating:

I am getting MORE than tired of speculation, gossip, and hanging Father Corapi in absentia, without benefit of trial, judge, jury.

What his order did was beyond strange. This whole case is beyond strange.

Father Corapi could be utterly innocent. He could be guilty of all he is accused of and more. It could be anything in between.

But tongues are wagging.

This is shameful. I repeat:

Utterly and completely shameful and without a shred of charity.

And I am also sick of people claiming to know what is in his heart or that he has shown pride WITHOUT knowing one iota of the facts.

I believe what is the truth about this case will not emerge for years. So I hope God judges many of you with more mercy than you are showing Father here.

 

[mcrow]

I’ve said this before, on other threads and other fora, but it bears repeating:

I am getting MORE than tired of speculation, gossip, and hanging Father Corapi in absentia, without benefit of trial, judge, jury.

What his order did was beyond strange. This whole case is beyond strange.

Father Corapi could be utterly innocent. He could be guilty of all he is accused of and more. It could be anything in between.

But tongues are wagging.

This is shameful. I repeat:

Utterly and completely shameful and without a shred of charity.

And I am also sick of people claiming to know what is in his heart or that he has shown pride WITHOUT knowing one iota of the facts.

I believe what is the truth about this case will not emerge for years. So I hope God judges many of you with more mercy than you are showing Father here.

When was the last time the Church or a religious order made these sort of comments about a priest and they were not true?

I’m not convicting him on anything (yes, I realize it’s not a civil case, just a figure of speach) but the Church generally does not comment at all on these things unless there is very good source info.

 

[Eliza10]

This is a bombshell. How do I explain this to my 10 year old son who was greatly inspired by Fr. Corapi?

Tell him a good man can be taken down if he does not live as Jesus told us to live. Sin can lead one quickly off-course. Tell him we fight not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities. Tell him we need the Grace so. Tell him that the Sacraments are what he needs to receive the Graces to lead a holy life; and that Confession is key when one is stuck in sin. Teach him the St. Michael prayer and prayer it with him often. Tell him, “Lean not on thine own understanding but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord”. Tell him to take custody of his eyes NOW and spurn every impure thing. Teach him about chastity. Read to him from the book of Proverbs. Tell him to pray for Father Corapi and for the Truth to win back Father’s heart! Tell him his prayers are powerful, because the Heart of Jesus takes His rest in the pure ones like him!

 

[Orogeny]

I’ve said this before, on other threads and other fora, but it bears repeating:

I am getting MORE than tired of speculation, gossip, and hanging Father Corapi in absentia, without benefit of trial, judge, jury.

What his order did was beyond strange. This whole case is beyond strange.

Go back and read JReductions posts. It is not strange.

I believe what is the truth about this case will not emerge for years. So I hope God judges many of you with more mercy than you are showing Father here.

And if Fr. is guilty of what he is accused of?

Peace

Tim

 

[surfinpure]

I’ve said this before, on other threads and other fora, but it bears repeating:

I am getting MORE than tired of speculation, gossip, and hanging Father Corapi in absentia, without benefit of trial, judge, jury.

What his order did was beyond strange. This whole case is beyond strange.

Father Corapi could be utterly innocent. He could be guilty of all he is accused of and more. It could be anything in between.

But tongues are wagging.

This is shameful. I repeat:

Utterly and completely shameful and without a shred of charity.

And I am also sick of people claiming to know what is in his heart or that he has shown pride WITHOUT knowing one iota of the facts.

I believe what is the truth about this case will not emerge for years. So I hope God judges many of you with more mercy than you are showing Father here.

What exactly is speculation? The superior of his order has declared him unfit for ministry. Either we accept the Church’s authority in this matter or we don’t. Either we trust their judgment or we don’t. But the facts are out; many simply refuse to accept them.

 

[Kardinal]

I am getting MORE than tired of speculation, gossip, and hanging Father Corapi in absentia, without benefit of trial, judge, jury.

I certainly agree that speculation, gossip, and “hanging” (whatever that means) are inappropriate. But in this case, the Archbishop of Corpus Christ, Father Corapi’s religious superior, is in fact, judge and jury, and is qualified to pass judgment on him. Further, while the courts require trial, judge, and jury, we the faithful are free to draw conclusions based on the public conduct and statements of people, informed by faith and charity.

Father Corapi could be utterly innocent. He could be guilty of all he is accused of and more. It could be anything in between.

Respectfully, “utterly innocent” is very unlikely. As far as I can tell, at least in its public statements, the Assocation (not order; the distinction is crucial) has acted appropriately and forthrightly. It did not make the proceedings, accusations, or any other information public; Father Corapi did that. It made no accusations of any kind toward anyone; Father Corapi publicly accused a sitting Archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church and his religious superior (as SOLT is a diocesan Association, the ultimate superior is the Archbishop of that diocese) of lying, slander, and blackmail. Only after the conclusion of the fact-finding task did SOLT publish its findings, after Father Corapi made this a public matter, accusing SOLT of attempting to railroad him. They have a right to their good name as well, once the matter is made public.

But tongues are wagging.

It is entirely appropriate for the faithful to discuss and attempt to understand the public actions of public figures. I agree that speculation and gossip have no place here, but the discussion of public acts (such as Father Corapi’s and SOLT’s public statements) are entirely fair game for discussion.

And I am also sick of people claiming to know what is in his heart or that he has shown pride WITHOUT knowing one iota of the facts.

Quite the contrary, my friend. We have quite a few facts. We have the public statements and behavior of Father Corapi and of Father Sheehan and SOLT. That comprises quite a few facts, including the fact which I repeated above.

I believe what is the truth about this case will not emerge for years.

Perhaps not. But both sides have had their say; SOLT that they found evidence of misconduct, and Father Corapi that he is being falsely accused. Based on their public actions and statements, I strongly tend to believe SOLT rather than Father Corapi.

 

[Eliza10]

Very good point. In my early sobriety I was helped very much by an “old-timer” who gave me some great advice and helped me get through those tough early months. . He later slipped, left the program and finished life as a derelict alcoholic. The last time I saw him he apologized for throwing away his sobriety I told him he didn’t throw away all of his sobriety away because part of it still lived in me. His message helped keep me sober and many others, regardless of the fact that he succumbed to his illness in the end.

As we look at Fr Coarapi we should feel great sadness but that does not undo the great good he has done- unless we allow it to.

I am impressed with this story too!

 

[Kardinal]

Further, an excellent point was made by Jimmy Akin on Kresta yesterday. By publicly publishing that they have seen evidence that leads them to believe that Father Corapi did the acts described in the statement yesterday morning, SOLT enters into a civil, legal arena; that of libel. If the accusations against Father Corapi are indeed false, SOLT just opened themselves up to an ENORMOUS libel lawsuit. Demonstrating damages will not be difficult; SOLT’s statement will result in a precipitous drop in Santa Cruz Media revenues. That kind of risk is not undertaken by anyone without serious consultation with lawyers who would have to review the evidence themselves. I think this lends significant credibility to their statement regarding Father Corapi’s conduct.