New SSPX Rosary Crusade

[LilyM]

I don’t understand the hostility in this post.

3 children claimed to have visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in a small village in Portugal 1917. After years of study, the Church proclaimed the apparitions “worthy of belief”. One of the things Our Lady asked for was the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart by the Pope in union with all of the bishops of the world. She said that “In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. Russia will be converted, and a period of peace will be given to the world”. Many Church approved theologians, such as Fr. Joaquin Alonzo, believe that the era of Peace promised at Fatima will be the triumph of the Church that the Fathers believed would one day happen before the end of time.

Yes, Sr. Lucy did say that the conversion of Russia would be a full fledged conversion to the Catholic faith. I don’t have the exact quote, but I believe it can be found in William Thomas Walsh’s book OUR LADY OF FATIMA.

Certainly an “era of peace” hasn’t occured yet, in Russia or anywhere else. What is the harm in praying for this to happen? Even if LilyM is correct and these rosaries are for an “unworthy cause”, Our Lord and Our Lady and will take the prayers and use them for another good purpose. No prayer said with a sincere heart is ever despised or wasted by Almighty God.

The hostility is caused by the bad faith of people who refuse to take the word of the Vatican that the consecration has been done, if you want to know where it stems from. What reason would the Vatican possibly have to lie and say it was done correctly if it wasn’t?

Would JP2, so devoted to Our Lady of Fatima, crediting her with saving his life, give up on the consecration unless he was reassured that it had been done? And he communicated with Sr Lucy numerous times, it beggars belief that he wouldn’t have checked with her and received her assurance.

It’s an insult to his memory and hers to keep this wound open and festering as it has been. There’s a lot more to denying the consecration than just ‘well, maybe it wasn’t done, we’d better be sure’ - there’s a whole conspiracy theory surrounding it, alleging that certain Cardinals (for what reason?) knew that it hadn’t been done and deliberately covered the fact up. Such second-guessing of the Vatican breeds unholy dissent.

 

[Sir_Alec]

LilyM, I apologize if my posts offended you.

The Holy Father and the Roman Curia are in regular contact with Bishop Fellay and other leaders of the SSPX. I’m sure that this Rosary crusade will be discussed, and perhaps the differences of opinion on whether the Consecration of Russia was accomplished will be dealt with in a substantive way. There are many people who are unimpeachable in their loyalty to the Holy Father who feel that there are some discrepancies between statements Sr. Lucia supposedly gave in the eighties versus what she is supposed to have said later.

As far as I know, Pope John Paul II never made any statements on whether the consecration of Russia was accomplished or not.

 

[Timothysis]

It’s an insult to his memory and hers to keep this wound open and festering as it has been. There’s a lot more to denying the consecration than just ‘well, maybe it wasn’t done, we’d better be sure’ -** there’s a whole conspiracy theory surrounding it,** alleging that certain Cardinals (for what reason?) knew that it hadn’t been done and deliberately covered the fact up. Such second-guessing of the Vatican breeds unholy dissent.

Exactly. A person would have to be blind not to see the underlying sentiments that are insinuated by questioning the actions of Pope John Paul II. Of course, one need also create a conspiracy to explain Sr. Lucia’s statements of the consecration being accomplished. Why would anyone drive at such a conclusions? It can be seen in a statement such as this: "There are many people who are unimpeachable in their loyalty to the Holy Father who feel that there are some discrepancies between statements Sr. Lucia supposedly gave in the eighties versus what she is supposed to have said later." A conspiracy is born…

 

[Indyann]

I wonder why the Bishop hasn’t begun a Rosary Crusade praying that the SSPX will be fully united to The Catholic Church?

That would seem to be a more beneficial intention, rather than praying for something already accomplished.

 

[Sir_Alec]

I guess I made a mistake in joining this forum.

Peace,

Larry

 

[ProVobis]

And even more let us not presume to take any alleged failure of quick results (although I’d say** the fall of Communism is hardly insignificant **if one IS looking for results) to mean that the consecration has not occurred.

Excellent point. The SSPX could pray that it stays this way.

And BTW to other posters, for what it’s worth, Putin is alcohol-free and Russia has a much-improved economy.

 

[pnewton]

This is unbelievable. In these days when Catholics vote for pro abortion candidates, attend church picnics that have craps, blackjack tables, and teen aged girls and women showing as much of their tans they can get away with, World Youth Days at which condoms are handed out to minors, on and on, we have Catholics looking for reasons why we don’t need to muster 12 million Rosaries.

Isn’t this a good idea ?

Good point. I will offer a rosary for an end to abortion and return of morality to America.

 

[Lainey63]

I wonder why the Bishop hasn’t begun a Rosary Crusade praying that the SSPX will be fully united to The Catholic Church?

That would seem to be a more beneficial intention, rather than praying for something already accomplished.

Agreed. Especially by the same named good bishop. A few alarms go off when this subject is brought up in my mind they are just using the backdoor to go against Our Holy Fathers, in this case JohnPaul II. Who by the way, knew firsthand of the evils of both Nazism and Communism.

 

[BrendanD]

I wonder why the Bishop hasn’t begun a Rosary Crusade praying that the SSPX will be fully united to The Catholic Church?

Um, they already did. I know some people have an irrational fear of the SSPX, but really, attacking them for praying the rosary

 

[LilyM]

Um, they already did. I know some people have an irrational fear of the SSPX, but really, attacking them for praying the rosary

It’s nothing to do with the SSPX at all. I rejoice unreservedly that the excommunications of the Bishops have been lifted, and only pray that the barriers may soon be removed (on both sides) that currently prevent them being restored to their episcopal offices.

Fatima conspiracy theories are a separate issue, and certainly not one that, until now, I thought the SSPX would have stooped to associate themselves with. Fellay has done a grave disservice to the standing of the SSPX to associate it with the likes of the defrocked Fr Gruner and his fellow ‘third secret’ conspiracy theorists.

 

[Lainey63]

Um, they already did. I know some people have an irrational fear of the SSPX, but really, attacking them for praying the rosary

They are not being attacked for saying the Rosary…there is a disagreement in regards to the request of the consecration of Russia being fulfilled as Our Lady requested at Fatima.

 

[Indyann]

Um, they already did. I know some people have an irrational fear of the SSPX, but really, attacking them for praying the rosary

Not according to the OP. Do you have evidence of a Rosary Crusade requested by the Bishop for unification with Rome?

Nobody is attacking them for praying the Rosary. The intention just seems, shall we say “suspect”.

 

[BrendanD]

I don’t know much about Fatima, the secrets, conspiracies, whatever. And it’s fine if you don’t want to pray for their intention (I’m not either.) My comment was that they already did led a rosary crusade for the intention of reconciling with Rome (lifting the excommunications, obviously the first step in the process.) We should not make untrue accusations that they haven’t done so.

Really, every time an apparition is mentioned a CAF, at least a few people point out that belief in them is “not required” and that Catholics are free to ignore them. But the SSPX presents an opinion about one, and all of a sudden, it is considered disobedient and disloyal to have a certain opinion or interpretation of a private revelation.

Not according to the OP. Do you have evidence of a Rosary Crusade requested by the Bishop for unification with Rome?

SSPX offered a million rosaries for the lifting of the excommunications and the Bishop delivered them in Rome. The excommunications were lifted. (I think the very same day?)

 

[pnewton]

Um, they already did. I know some people have an irrational fear of the SSPX, but really, attacking them for praying the rosary

What better way of trying to disguise and agenda than presenting it in conjunction with something that can not be questioned. For example, would it be wrong to question a Rosary campaign being offered for the election of a genuine Pope? How about for gay marriage?

The reason does matter.

 

[BrendanD]

What better way of trying to disguise and agenda than presenting it in conjunction with something that can not be questioned. For example, would it be wrong to question a Rosary campaign being offered for the election of a genuine Pope? How about for gay marriage?

The reason does matter.

Interpretation of a private revelation is not comparable to gay marriage or sedevacantism. This analogy would only fit if their intention were heretical, which it is not.

My point was not that I approve of their intention, I wont be taking part in it. I also won’t make vague accusations about why they aren’t praying for some other intention instead, when they already are.

 

[Shin]

Honestly, there’s nothing wrong with consecrating specific countries multiple times. It’s a painless thing to do. Completely.

And frankly should be done a great deal, to a great deal of countries because they all really need it. A lot. More than once.

So, if it will placate the people who are convinced it was not done properly or fully properly too – why not do it eh? No reasonable reason I can conceive of not to.

Let’s have it done.

Consecrate Russia. Consecrate America. Consecrate the U.K. Do 'em each individually. Have a whole worldwide series of consecrations, one after another, for the major nations individually, then the minor nations in groups.

Let’s have at it.

 

[LilyM]

Honestly, there’s nothing wrong with consecrating specific countries multiple times. It’s a painless thing to do. Completely.

And frankly should be done a great deal, to a great deal of countries because they all really need it. A lot. More than once.

So, if it will placate the people who are convinced it was not done properly or fully properly too – why not do it eh? No reasonable reason I can conceive of not to.

Let’s have it done.

Consecrate Russia. Consecrate America. Consecrate the U.K. Do 'em each individually. Have a whole worldwide series of consecrations, one after another, for the major nations individually, then the minor nations in groups.

Let’s have at it.

Which would be fine if such were Fellay’s mindset and intent. If such were the case he would’ve made the campaign one to offer rosaries for the intent of (re)consecration of ALL these countries.

There is a definite agenda behind singling out Russia for attention as he has done, and the agenda is one which would cause great pain to the Vatican and to those who treasure the memories of JP2 and Sr Lucia.

 

[Shin]

Which would be fine if such were Fellay’s mindset and intent. If such were the case he would’ve made the campaign one to offer rosaries for the intent of (re)consecration of ALL these countries.

There is a definite agenda behind singling out Russia for attention as he has done, and the agenda is one which would cause great pain to the Vatican and to those who treasure the memories of JP2 and Sr Lucia.

Oh please, let’s not make mountains out of molehills. There is no reason to be ‘pained’ by these things or to take it as harm to ‘treasured memories’.

Do you really want these people saying rosaries from here till who knows when, when a quick action can fix it all? How about some compassion for those? And the people who would be more drawn to full communion with this done?

Benedict can even state in his personal opinion it was already done for Russia, or diplomatically ignore the issue directly and just stick Russia in a series of consecrations.

This isn’t a turf war, it’s something that can do a lot of good. What is this ‘no consecrations allowed’ business? Honestly.

 

[Like]

It’s nothing to do with the SSPX at all. I rejoice unreservedly that the excommunications of the Bishops have been lifted, and only pray that the barriers may soon be removed (on both sides) that currently prevent them being restored to their episcopal offices.

Fatima conspiracy theories are a separate issue, and certainly not one that, until now, I thought the SSPX would have stooped to associate themselves with. Fellay has done a grave disservice to the standing of the SSPX to associate it with the likes of the defrocked Fr Gruner and his fellow ‘third secret’ conspiracy theorists.

It seems to me that the SSPX keeps shooting themselves in the foot. They just got their foot in the door by getting their excommunications lifted & now they are saying Sr.Lucia, JP II and our current Holy Father have lied to the world. I am NOT a SSPX hater, but I would have thought they would be doing everything possible to obtain full communion with Rome.

I don’t know much about Fatima, the secrets, conspiracies, whatever. And it’s fine if you don’t want to pray for their intention (I’m not either.) My comment was that they already did led a rosary crusade for the intention of reconciling with Rome (lifting the excommunications, obviously the first step in the process.) We should not make untrue accusations that they haven’t done so.
True! But why stop with getting the excommunications lifted and yet not go for full communion. I just don’t understand what they really want, do you?
Really, every time an apparition is mentioned a CAF, at least a few people point out that belief in them is “not required” and that Catholics are free to ignore them. But the SSPX presents an opinion about one, and all of a sudden, it is considered disobedient and disloyal to have a certain opinion or interpretation of a private revelation.
Wrong! their opinion is contradicting what Sr. Lucia and the Holy See has stated Our Lady & Heaven has accepted the Consecration of Russia.

SSPX offered a million rosaries for the lifting of the excommunications and the Bishop delivered them in Rome. The excommunications were lifted. (I think the very same day?)

Is that all they wanted?

Which would be fine if such were Fellay’s mindset and intent. If such were the case he would’ve made the campaign one to offer rosaries for the intent of (re)consecration of ALL these countries.

There is a definite agenda behind singling out Russia for attention as he has done, and the agenda is one which would cause great pain to the Vatican and to those who treasure the memories of JP2 and Sr Lucia.

 

[Hesychios]

…:coffeeread: