new wine

  • Thread starter Thread starter JED8643
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JED8643

Guest
I recently heard a Baptist pastor I know say something that really offended me as a convert coming into the Catholic faith. (I overheard this, not directed at me personally)
He was recently at the funeral of a distant relative of his who was a Catholic. He obviously attended a traditional Catholic Mass because he was questioning and mocking Catholic communion.
He said the fact that Catholics use real wine (he uses grape juice in his service) just reaffirmed how “wicked the CC is” because in his view alcohol was a “type” of sin in the bible. He then jokingly put down transubstantiation as if you had to be a moron to believe Jesus was being literal at the last supper. He then referred to a verse in Proverbs (23:31) that he said warned us not to drink wine after it turns alcoholic. He thinks references in the bible where it seems drinking in moderation is o.k., they are really drinking non fermented wine. I read the verse and it doesn’t seem to say what he is making it try to say. Here’s the verse.
’Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly!
I guess at some point he thinks you can visibly tell when the juice from grapes begins to ferment from reading this passage.
He said using real wine makes the blood of Christ “sinful”.
Is this a common argument used by some Baptist’s or is this pastor really twisting scripture on a whole new level??
🤷
 
I recently heard a Baptist pastor I know say something that really offended me as a convert coming into the Catholic faith. (I overheard this, not directed at me personally)
He was recently at the funeral of a distant relative of his who was a Catholic. He obviously attended a traditional Catholic Mass because he was questioning and mocking Catholic communion.
He said the fact that Catholics use real wine (he uses grape juice in his service) just reaffirmed how “wicked the CC is” because in his view alcohol was a “type” of sin in the bible. He then jokingly put down transubstantiation as if you had to be a moron to believe Jesus was being literal at the last supper. He then referred to a verse in Proverbs (23:31) that he said warned us not to drink wine after it turns alcoholic. He thinks references in the bible where it seems drinking in moderation is o.k., they are really drinking non fermented wine. I read the verse and it doesn’t seem to say what he is making it try to say. Here’s the verse.
’Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly!
I guess at some point he thinks you can visibly tell when the juice from grapes begins to ferment from reading this passage.
He said using real wine makes the blood of Christ “sinful”.
Is this a common argument used by some Baptist’s or is this pastor really twisting scripture on a whole new level??
🤷
Yes. He’s twisting Scripture. But hardly to a “whole new level.” This is a very common way of thinking for the no-drinkin’, no-dancin’, no-cardplayin’ sort of Christian. Heck, even J. Vernon McGee – a pretty good Fundamentalist – says that Jesus made WATER at the wedding at Cana. Go figure.
 
I’ve just quit being surprised at what Baptists have to say. They should give up religion and go into stand-up comedy.
 
The problem is, he has hundreds of folks who believe and hang on every word he say’s. I guess that how all this Catholic bias gets spread around. I can picture folks in his congregation going around repeating what he says to their Catholic acquaintances and co-workers.

Do you think it will ever end???
😦
 
The problem is, he has hundreds of folks who believe and hang on every word he say’s. I guess that how all this Catholic bias gets spread around. I can picture folks in his congregation going around repeating what he says to their Catholic acquaintances and co-workers.

Do you think it will ever end???
😦
My wife and I have some really dear friends that attend an Independent Fundamental Baptist church.

I took martial arts with their pastor when I was attending a Wesleyan church and he was talking to me about a fighter, Ken Shamrock, who is Catholic. He said there was a big difference between Shamrock and himself and I asked what it was… “He’s Catholic… and I’m not. That difference is like Heaven and Hell.”

Our friends don’t treat us different and I hope it stays that way, but I do pray that God will guard their minds and hearts.
 
I think you should probably ask him, if wine was sinful, then why would Jesus turn water into wine? I mean, that’s like Jesus telling people to sin. Jesus is enabling a sin, which is sinful, right?
 
I think you should probably ask him, if wine was sinful, then why would Jesus turn water into wine? I mean, that’s like Jesus telling people to sin. Jesus is enabling a sin, which is sinful, right?
Cuz, Tick, that wasn’t ALCOHOLIC wine Jesus made a Cana. It was pre-fermended non-alcoholic wine. Man! You Catholics don’t know nuthin’ about the BIBLE!
 
Cuz, Tick, that wasn’t ALCOHOLIC wine Jesus made a Cana. It was pre-fermended non-alcoholic wine. Man! You Catholics don’t know nuthin’ about the BIBLE!

[honest. that’s what they believe.]
 
Because grape juice pasteurzation was invented by Jesus you know.😃

Fundamental Baptist are among the most willfully retarded people on Earth. :mad:
Is like deliverate ignorance. Or reality denial.

Fundies say the darnest things:shrug:
 
Because grape juice pasteurzation was invented by Jesus you know.😃

Fundamental Baptist are among the most willfully retarded people on Earth. :mad:
Is like deliverate ignorance. Or reality denial.

Fundies say the darnest things:shrug:
Well, we have to be careful since Jesus did tell us that unless one becomes like a child he can not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Of course I have met some very intelligent and quick kids but the fundamentalists seem to bring new meaning to having the mind of a child. The ironic thing is that this probably gets 99% of them to heaven through the theological excuse of invincible ignorance. :rolleyes:

Now that’s a rather sobering thought…

James
 
I once talked to a Fundamentalist who actually believed that alcohol was added to grape juice in ancient times in order to preserve it.
 
Can we all retire for a moment and enjoy some nice, cold sangria. I’m thirsty! :twocents:

Sorry James, for my not so sobering thought. :rotfl:
 
If he was breastfed as a baby he was drinking alcohol molecules. Alcohol is naturally present in milk in alkylglycerols, a naturally occurring ester, which is a chemical formed by the combination of a fatty acid and an alcohol molecule.
10 times more alcohol molecules in human milk than in cow’s milk.
Go figure, ain’t God great.
 
If he was breastfed as a baby he was drinking alcohol molecules. Alcohol is naturally present in milk in alkylglycerols, a naturally occurring ester, which is a chemical formed by the combination of a fatty acid and an alcohol molecule.
10 times more alcohol molecules in human milk than in cow’s milk.
Go figure, ain’t God great.
No WONDER them breast-fed babies is SOOOOO content!
 
An interesting come-back to note on Cana is that the guests were asking why the good wine was served last. This question only makes sense if the wine really was wine.
 
An interesting come-back to note on Cana is that the guests were asking why the good wine was served last. This question only makes sense if the wine really was wine.
No it doesn’t! They were all Baptists at that wedding and they KNEW the GOOD wine was alcohol free! Shucks, you Catholics don’t know nuttin’ about the Bible.
 
An interesting come-back to note on Cana is that the guests were asking why the good wine was served last. This question only makes sense if the wine really was wine.
Remember these are the same people who for zeal of personal interpretation will squeeze every drop out of scripture as grapes in a wine press but for no other reason than to spite Catholic teaching would turn it into vinegar rather than wine and then have the gall to force Jesus to swallow His own words as a bitter drink as was done on the cross. 😉

Jesus predicted every bit of this by the events on the cross and in His own words when he complained:

Mark 7:6
"And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.”

And there will be gnashing of teeth when the same hear the words:
Matthew 7:23
‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

James
 
John wrote in the second chapter:
9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when ***men ***have well drunk (3184)( to drink to intoxication), then that which is worse (1640)( younger ): but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
Thank You Dr. Strong

**G3184
**μεθύω
methuō
*meth-oo’-o
From another form of G3178; to drink to intoxication, that is, get drunk: - drink well, make (be) drunk (-en).

**G1640
**ἐλάσσων, ἐλάττων
elassōn elattōn
el-as’-sone, *el-at’-tone
*Compound of the same as G1646; smaller (in size, quantity, age or quality): - less, under, worse, younger.

The practice was common that once everyone was drunk, the Good wine, that which was aged to a good fermentation was put up and the newer wine which was less inebriating was brought out in it’s place. Those being drunk, could hardly tell the difference since the senses at this point in time are significantly impaired.

Historical Culture at it’s best. Some hosts are like that today…
*
 
My wife and I have some really dear friends that attend an Independent Fundamental Baptist church.

I took martial arts with their pastor when I was attending a Wesleyan church and he was talking to me about a fighter, Ken Shamrock, who is Catholic. He said there was a big difference between Shamrock and himself and I asked what it was.… "He’s Catholic… and I’m not. That difference is like Heaven and Hell."

Our friends don’t treat us different and I hope it stays that way, but I do pray that God will guard their minds and hearts.
Lets look at the comparison:

“He’s Catholic” is to “I’m not”

as

“Heaven” is to “Hell”

I see no problem here. 😛
 
Lets look at the comparison:

“He’s Catholic” is to “I’m not”

as

“Heaven” is to “Hell”

I see no problem here. 😛
By George I think you’ve got it!

As Catholic relates to Heaven:)
So I’m not relates to Hell:eek:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top