NEW YORK: Lesbian [Episcopal ] Priest Nominee on List to be Next Bishop of New York

[Scott_Lafrance]

lol this is from an Orthodox Christian regurding the validity of Catholic Orders and Sacraments:

*'According to the first Canon of St. Basil, which was incorporated into the decrees of the Sixth Ecumenical Council:
“The beginning, true enough, of the separation resulted through a schism, but those who seceded from the Church had not the grace of Holy Spirit upon them; for the impartation thereof ceased with the interruption of the service. For although the ones who were the first to depart had been ordained by the fathers and with the impartation of their hands had obtained the gracious gift of the Spirit, yet after breaking away they became laymen, and had no authority either to baptize or to ordain anyone, nor could they impart the grace of the Spirit to others, after they themselves had forfeited it.”

Of course, interpretation of his words may vary, but given Rome’s propagation of heresies unacceptable to the Church of Christ, and the obvious schism that exists between them and us, I would suggest we do not regard as valid the priesthood of the Catholics, regardless of Apostolic succession, given the above words of St. Basil.*

your full of it mate!

If Catholic orders are invalid, why does the Patriarch of Constantinople (now in Istabul) co-celebrate Mass with the Pope? If Catholic Orders were invalid as a result of schism and heresy, why would the Patriarch “honor” the Pope by celebrating the Eucharist (which is just as much the center of Orthodox spiritual life as it is with the Catholics) with him? So, with all due respect to your Orthodox friend, he should pay a little more attention to what his ordinaries do and say and get of his own anti-Catholic diatribe.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Read carefully the last line of what you quoted via saying in post #224. /

Oh! Ya, my mind read it as consecration.

How do you condense the Eucharist? Is that when the priest skips lines in the liturgy?

 

[via_media]

If Catholic orders are invalid, why does the Patriarch of Constantinople (now in Istabul) co-celebrate Mass with the Pope? If Catholic Orders were invalid as a result of schism and heresy, why would the Patriarch “honor” the Pope by celebrating the Eucharist (which is just as much the center of Orthodox spiritual life as it is with the Catholics) with him? So, with all due respect to your Orthodox friend, he should pay a little more attention to what his ordinaries do and say and get of his own anti-Catholic diatribe.

he doesn’t co-celebrate the Liturgy with the pope. the pope was a guest at a liturgy in Istanbul. the pope was not allowed to receive communion nor were any other members of the Roman Church. as far as Orthodoxy is concerned your order are Invalid, Null and Utterly Void!!!

 

[ringil]

OMG your like a broken record arn’t you. listen I was tellign someone else what Anglicans believe about their own Sacraments (we call them sacraments) I have no other word to use for them!

Im unsure what u mean by I write like im composing a prince song…but tell me, why are you going on about this like a dog with a bone??? Im not talking about the sacraments within the Catholic Church, Im talking about what Anglicans believe about their own Sacraments.

I think he’s talking about using “u, b4, OMG”. THat comes across a little silly when discussing theology. Anglicans, in general, have impecable English- so use the Queen’s not the NETS!!!

 

[via_media]

Read carefully the last line of what you quoted via saying in post #224. /

I meant ‘conversation’ sorry…auto correct can sometimes be not that great lol

 

[Contarini]

Whats a pansexual?

It’s a term that conservative Anglicans have come up with to describe the views of their liberal opponents. I understand what it means when referring to an ideology that affirms all different kinds of sexual behavior. But I think it’s grotesquely misapplied in this case.

I don’t expect anything better from Mr. Virtue, though (unfortunately given his name).

Edwin

 

[ringil]

Sounds like spiritual direction, rather than Confession/Reconciliation. The Catholic Church allows for non-priest Spiritual Directors, as well.

Yes that’s how some do it. The penitent will tell their sins to a spiritual advisor, then the priest will confer the absolution which is done quickly just before the Liturgy. This allows for a more thourough Confession dialogue experience I believe. I have no problem with it.

 

[via_media]

I think he’s talking about using “u, b4, OMG”. THat comes across a little silly when discussing theology. Anglicans, in general, have impecable English- so use the Queen’s not the NETS!!!

sorry I went to the Catholic Mass as a youngster…I guess 40 years of appalling translations left it’s mark on me and my generation

 

[Wolseley]

Oh! Ya, my mind read it as consecration.

I think I’ve worked with people who were condensed, to be honest with you----they were certainly drips, at any rate.

I meant ‘conversation’ sorry…auto correct can sometimes be not that great lol

I have a spelling checker
It came with my PC;
It planely marks four my revue
Mistakes I cannot sea.
I’ve run this poem threw it;
I’m sure your please two no:
It’s “letter-perfect” in its weigh—
My checker tolled me sew.

 

[Contarini]

And who was being mean? The fact is this is just another sign of the Esplicopalian Church becoming less and less relevant, sadly for them.

I don’t understand why an orthodox Christian would use the word “relevant” in that manner. Who cares about being relevant?

The Episcopal Church is becoming less and less orthodox, which actually means something.

Relevance is, well, relative–relevant to whom? The Episcopal Church is very relevant to a significant (if relatively small) number of people.

And apparently it’s very relevant to the conservative Catholics on this forum, given how obsessed with it they seem to be

Edwin

 

[ringil]

sorry i went to the catholic mass as a youngster…i guess 40 years of appalling translations left it’s mark on me and my generation

touche!!

 

[Contarini]

As a Catholic, I agree with you; but I don’t think Episcopalians care what we think.

Well I do, but I’m a very weird Episcopalian

Edwin

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

he doesn’t co-celebrate the Liturgy with the pope. the pope was a guest at a liturgy in Istanbul. the pope was not allowed to receive communion nor were any other members of the Roman Church. as far as Orthodoxy is concerned your order are Invalid, Null and Utterly Void!!!

Ya, maybe you should go back in history and read about Patriarch Athenagoras and Pope Paul VI.

“We see no obstacle on the path leading to union between the Church of Rome and the Church of the East… We do not see an obstacle, for the very simple reason that such obstacles do not exist” (from statements made by the Patriarch on the occasion of his meeting with Pope Paul VI in Rome, October 26, 1967; see OrqodoxoV TupoV [a biweekly newspaper published by the Pan-Hellenic Orthodox Union], Nos. 90-91 [August-September 1968], p. 4).

“We have the same Faith, we worship the same God, we hold the same things sacred and holy. Tradition has divided us, but it is necessary to the incentive for union” (Rome, May 14, 1965, Reuters ; cited Orthodox Word, January-February-March 1966 issue, Vol. 2, No.1, p. 36).

“We have been seperated for 911 years and now the time has come for us to be found together again. The Catholics and the Orthodox do not belong to two different Churches, but to two branches of the same Church” (Milan, Nov. 2, 1965, Corriere de la Sera ; cited Orthodox Word, January-February-March 1966 issue, Vol. 2, No.1, p. 36).

Athenagoras Co-Worshipping with Paul VI in the Basilica of St. Peter at Pascha (Easter) of 1966

“Once again, we are celebrating a new (kainon) and holy Pascha, beloved brethren and children in the Lord. But the entire Christian world is also celebrating a common (koinon) Pascha this year [March 28/April 10, 1966–Trans.]. And, as we embrace one another, we strike up the hymn of victory over evil, over divisions and death, out of a common faith and hope, and appealing to love, that we may one day celebrate a common Feast of the Resurrection, on the same fixed Sunday every year…

Again, you feel free to listen to a lay Orthodox if you’d like. I prefer to go with the words and actions of the ecumenical Patriarch. Call me crazy.

 

[via_media]

Yes that’s how some do it. The penitent will tell their sins to a spiritual advisor, then the priest will confer the absolution which is done quickly just before the Liturgy. This allows for a more thourough Confession dialogue experience I believe. I have no problem with it.

didn’t know that…but in the Orthodox Church the Bishop or ArchBishop can give the Authority to whom he wishes to give absolution. i.e a nun could do it, no need for the priest to do it if the Archbishop gives her a dispensation to do it.

for Orthodox Christians the Priest doesn’t have the power to give absolution by virtue of his ordination. Orthodox Christian maintain that in the early church confession was communal and absolution was given by the entire congregation, over time the person of the priest came to embody the community so as Public confessions died out the priest fulilled the role of the community in that regard. thus even laymen may grant absolution to someone (if the bishop has given this person the Authority to do so)

 

[Contarini]

Either the Catholic Church is true or it isn’t. If it is, then the Anglican “Communion” is invalid.

No, only if Pope Leo XIII was right in his determination in Apostolicae Curae. I recognize that this was traditionally listed as an infallible determination, but I do not think that all Catholics hold that view today.

If it should turn out that Pope Leo was wrong about us, Catholicism would not collapse. I think your view of your Church is a bit too fragile

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

They have crackers and grape juice, not the Blessed Sacrament.

Episcopalians do not have crackers and grape juice, whether or not we have the Blessed Sacrament.

Edwin

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

No, only if Pope Leo XIII was right in his determination in Apostolicae Curae. I recognize that this was traditionally listed as an infallible determination, but I do not think that all Catholics hold that view today.

If it should turn out that Pope Leo was wrong about us, Catholicism would not collapse. I think your view of your Church is a bit too fragile

Edwin

Has anything come out to countermand Apostolicae Curae?

 

[Contarini]

You mean that the bulk of the people here are not in line with Church teaching on embryonic destruction for stem cell harvestation? Cloning? Euthanasia? Any other type of marriage other than one man/one woman? Subsidiarity and the proper role of government? Collectivism?

The interpretation of subsidiarity, the proper role of government, and “collectivism” (which seems to mean any effort for the common good) prevalent on these forums is certainly not representative of mainstream Catholicism.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

It’s not a matter of “my beliefs”, rather it is a matter of metaphysical certitude.

You have metaphysical certitude about the validity of other Christians’ sacraments?

I find it hard to imagine the state of mind that could have anything remotely capable of being confused with certitude on such a subject. And I don’t much want to imagine such a state of mind, frankly.

Edwin

 

[via_media]

Ya, maybe you should go back in history and read about Patriarch Athenagoras and Pope Paul VI.

“We see no obstacle on the path leading to union between the Church of Rome and the Church of the East… We do not see an obstacle, for the very simple reason that such obstacles do not exist” (from statements made by the Patriarch on the occasion of his meeting with Pope Paul VI in Rome, October 26, 1967; see OrqodoxoV TupoV [a biweekly newspaper published by the Pan-Hellenic Orthodox Union], Nos. 90-91 [August-September 1968], p. 4).

“We have the same Faith, we worship the same God, we hold the same things sacred and holy. Tradition has divided us, but it is necessary to the incentive for union” (Rome, May 14, 1965, Reuters ; cited Orthodox Word, January-February-March 1966 issue, Vol. 2, No.1, p. 36).

“We have been seperated for 911 years and now the time has come for us to be found together again. The Catholics and the Orthodox do not belong to two different Churches, but to two branches of the same Church” (Milan, Nov. 2, 1965, Corriere de la Sera ; cited Orthodox Word, January-February-March 1966 issue, Vol. 2, No.1, p. 36).

Athenagoras Co-Worshipping with Paul VI in the Basilica of St. Peter at Pascha (Easter) of 1966

“Once again, we are celebrating a new (kainon) and holy Pascha, beloved brethren and children in the Lord. But the entire Christian world is also celebrating a common (koinon) Pascha this year [March 28/April 10, 1966–Trans.]. And, as we embrace one another, we strike up the hymn of victory over evil, over divisions and death, out of a common faith and hope, and appealing to love, that we may one day celebrate a common Feast of the Resurrection, on the same fixed Sunday every year…

Dude the Orthodox church is not in communion with Rome…Athenagoras may have been Ecumenical Patriarch but he doesn’t have the Authority to speak for all Orthodoxy, ask any orthodox christian and you will get the same response. ORTHODOXY IS NOT IN COMMUNION WITH ROME, There has been no Eucharistic sharing, Most Orthodox don’t believe Roman orders are Valid…some may, but the general feeling is that they are not. in many cases if a Catholic is received into the Orthodox Church they may have to be re baptized (although the more common way today is through conformation, but the Russians still insist on re-baptism) I don’t know where your getting your information from but trust me I’m from an multi-faith family (catholic and Orthodox and now Anglican of course) if the RCC and the EOC were in communion with one another I’d know about it!!!