New York Parish Fears Losing Daily Dose of ‘Spiritus Sancti’

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I hope they don’t lose the ability to have the TLM mass. It seems odd to me that since SP is still in effect (Pope Francis hasn’t recinded it) then how can the diocese recommend to close the only Church in NYC that is offering it.

Also I am surprised that a city as big as New York only has ONE Church offering the TLM.
 
It must be wonderful to live in or near a parish where daily ‘E.F.’ masses are said or sung. At my church, the High Mass on Sundays/Holy Days is usually in Latin (the parish mass in English immediately precedes it, but generally the former is a more popular choice…although that could be just because 10.30 is a more convenient time!), and said on Fridays and Saturdays…I think there is absolutely a place for both in the life and worship of the Church (although I’m very clear on which I personally prefer!).

Obviously we all have to recognise that in some places, the arrangement (and number) of parishes might need to be reorganised because of our shortage of priests, or simply falling numbers of parishioners, and while we’re bound to make our views heard it’s something everyone, wherever they are, should probably try to make their peace with. Just because the priest on a particular day, or against our personal preference, has made a particular choice from among the legitimate liturgical possibilities, there’s no need ipso facto to kick up a fuss.

I live in a different country, never mind a different diocese or city, so obviously wouldn’t want to comment in this particular instance in too much detail…but while we can all agree that priests, visiting or otherwise, ought not to present an overly critical picture of their diocese (as the spokesman is quoted, to ‘build up the church rather than try to bring disunity’) - it always seems an anathema to me that the Church (or particular parts of it anyway), do tend to take on a rather arrogant attitude on occasion, as though the Archdiocese of New York (or any other) were above the potential for criticism or comment. It (and they) is (are) not.

All that said, what I fear - for the Catholics in NYC who do attend Holy Innocents - is that this particular diocese, for whatever reason, seems to have (or at any rate gives the impression of, to judge from the tone of the NYT article) an agenda set against the Latin Mass. (This thread obviously isn’t the place to re-open discussions of the merits of ad orientem v. versus populum or anything else). But there’s clearly not merely a place, but a hunger for E.F., not merely in New York but anywhere I’ve been where it is celebrated. I just hope that for all his ‘cool’-ness, as well as his generosity of spirit and gracious holiness, Pope Francis isn’t (accidentally?) encouraging an environment where the full panoply of possibilities, celebrating the rich liturgical traditions of the Church, are again looked down upon.
 
A lengthy portion of Fr. Wylie’s remarks to the parish can be found here:
cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/27/defending-devotees-of-the-latin-mass-in-new-york/?action=click&contentCollection=N.Y.%20%2F%20Region&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

Towards the end, you can see where he overstepped the bounds. He criticized the decision of the archdiocese as unjust and urged those in attendance to organize in protest. As someone in a diplomatic position, he surely knew the prudence of negotiating behind the scenes, rather than making a public rebuke.

I do not know the reasons for the archdiocese’s plan, and wonder if an accommodation couldn’t be made. However, any concerns and appeals should have been discussed behind closed doors.
 
saintjohnxxiii said:
Also I am surprised that a city as big as New York only has ONE Church offering the TLM.
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I agree with this.

They should be able to figure something out. The article says that the parish operates at a surplus. The priests needs to not be so bombastic.
 
There may be other agendas going on here besides preferences in liturgy. The saints who worshiped in the TLM never attacked the Catholic diocese, and never reached out to anti-Catholic secular media to promote their cause. We tend to think liberals are the only ones influenced by the “the spirit of the world”; actually conservatives are also influenced by the anti-Catholicism of 2014 (which means anti-Catholic authority, anti-diocese or anti-Vatican.) My daily newspaper printed a very long article on this, even though I live nowhere near NY City. The secularists love this stuff.

Again, while the article talks about priests and people supposedly influenced by the past, there is a lot of 2014 in their response.
 
I was thinking, it can’t hurt to have the EF said in more than one parish throughout the city, even if it’s only one Mass / weekend. That would truly men the liturgies are aside by side, with more opportunity to welcome newbies and sentimentalists and everyone in between.
 
ringil said:
I agree with this.

They should be able to figure something out. The article says that the parish operates at a surplus. The priests needs to not be so bombastic.
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I actually don’t think there is only one. I know that Our Lady of Mount Carmel recently had the Mass in Latin. (it’s in the Bronx)

This article explains what is happening.

ncregister.com/daily-news/traditional-catholics-perplexed-over-n.y.-parishs-rumored-closing

The TLM is being currently offered by Father Paul Rutler. Father Rutler offered it at his former parish as well, and probably will offer it wherever he is reassigned, if he ends up being reassigned due to the Parish closing.

It depends also on the availability of Priests who are able to offer the mass.
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
I actually don’t think there is only one. I know that Our Lady of Mount Carmel recently had the Mass in Latin. (it’s in the Bronx)

This article explains what is happening.

ncregister.com/daily-news/traditional-catholics-perplexed-over-n.y.-parishs-rumored-closing

The TLM is being currently offered by Father Paul Rutler. Father Rutler offered it at his former parish as well, and probably will offer it wherever he is reassigned, if he ends up being reassigned due to the Parish closing.

It depends also on the availability of Priests who are able to offer the mass.
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I’ve heard of Father Rutler while living in NC. He was doing some EF masses there. It’s a small world with the EF.
 
I don’t see a criticism of the diocese in Fr. Wylie’s remarks as much as an exhortation to action on the part of the faithful there. He is right in pointing out that traditionalists are too often treated as second-class citizens by the Church at large, and that they facilitate this treatment by not insisting on their rights. And they do have rights, after all. They are as much the loyal sons and daughters of the Church as anyone else, and just as entitled to pastoral care and consideration as anyone else, and it is not criticism to say as much.
 
sw85 said:
I don’t see a criticism of the diocese in Fr. Wylie’s remarks as much as an exhortation to action on the part of the faithful there. He is right in pointing out that traditionalists are too often treated as second-class citizens by the Church at large, and that they facilitate this treatment by not insisting on their rights. And they do have rights, after all. They are as much the loyal sons and daughters of the Church as anyone else, and just as entitled to pastoral care and consideration as anyone else, and it is not criticism to say as much.
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In fact, he exhorts them to:

"I urge you, therefore, to be obedient and to be charitable with your legitimate superiors in all this, as well as with each other. Be firm and clear, also, and just; however, let charity always be the litmus test of whom it is you serve.

…and in this they must have our obedience, charity and prayer:…"
 
saintjohnxxiii said:
I am surprised that a city as big as New York only has ONE Church offering the TLM.
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I believe the article was referring to offering a daily Latin Mass.

The Latin Mass NYC website lists ten locations offering the Latin Mass. (The site, linked below, seems to have been last updated in November).

latinmassnyc.org/
 
sw85 said:
… He is right in pointing out that traditionalists are too often treated as second-class citizens by the Church at large, and that they facilitate this treatment by not insisting on their rights…
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Is there any group in America that doesn’t claim they are treated as “second class citizens”?
That’s the mantra of 2014 America. At one time traditional Catholics were suspicious of secular trends and peer pressure. Now, some groups welcome the modern culture with open arms.

Traditional Catholics sometimes seek help from the Catholic Church to deal with the secular media. **This **group apparently reached out to the pro abortion media to seek help in dealing with the Catholic Church.

This is not a reflection on Catholics who love the TLM. It simply means that a small minority of them sometimes give in to the temptation of the “spirit of the age”. They want to be up-to-date Americans insisting on their rights. Most are not like that.
 
NOTE: this isn’t the only place in New York City or even in Manhattan (see latinmassnyc.org/)

However, it is the Church with the most Mass times.

NOTE: Just because the Parish might merge with another Parish doesn’t mean that the Church would have to close. It’s possible that it could become a Chapel.

It’s also possible to create a Latin Mass Apostate like we have in Philadelphia. It’s the Archdioceses’ official dedicated Latin Mass Community. From what I understand, the community is too small to be it’s own Parish right now, so it meets in a Chapel of another Parish. The Clergy rotate in from their regular Parishes/Assignments to say Mass. And there is a Chaplin (Priest) assigned to the community too.

There are ways for the Archdiocese of New York to stabilize the Masses in the Extraordinary Form without it being an actual Personal Parish.

Now that this article is out there, I would suggest a nice letter to the Archbishop expressing the desire to maintain the COMMUNITY and the number of Masses, etc. Again, this can be done in a Merged Parish and who knows… might actually help.

I would like to wish this community good luck and God Bless
 
commenter said:
Is there any group in America that doesn’t claim they are treated as “second class citizens”?
That’s the mantra of 2014 America. At one time traditional Catholics were suspicious of secular trends and peer pressure. Now, some groups welcome the modern culture with open arms.

Traditional Catholics sometimes seek help from the Catholic Church to deal with the secular media. **This **group apparently reached out to the pro abortion media to seek help in dealing with the Catholic Church.

This is not a reflection on Catholics who love the TLM. It simply means that a small minority of them sometimes give in to the temptation of the “spirit of the age”. They want to be up-to-date Americans insisting on their rights. Most are not like that.
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I really have no idea what you are talking about. Nothing Fr. Wylie said was especially remarkable – the Archdiocese really does have a duty to minister pastorally to that community (or is pastoralism only for the left?) and what evidence is there that they “reached out” to the media to tell their story? And even if they did what would make their “reaching out to the media” such an abomination when Card. Dolan and Pope Francis are both praised for doing exactly the same thing?
 
phil19034 said:
Now that this article is out there, I would suggest a nice letter to the Archbishop expressing the desire to maintain the COMMUNITY and the number of Masses, etc. Again, this can be done in a Merged Parish and who knows… might actually help.
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Yes, but in my experience in working with UnaVoce, you’re DAED if you do too little, and DAED if you do too much. And working with a small group, either gets amplified by the media, which tends to look anywhere and everywhere for news. The ideal would be to grow organically (and this is true for the OF as well) without any hoopla and without any resistance. The odds of that happening, however, are small.
 
ProVobis said:
Yes, but in my experience in working with UnaVoce, you’re DAED if you do too little, and DAED if you do too much. And working with a small group, either gets amplified by the media, which tends to look anywhere and everywhere for news. The ideal would be to grow organically (and this is true for the OF as well) without any hoopla and without any resistance. The odds of that happening, however, are small.
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Actually, the media does not look everywhere, they have a very selective filter. This past Saturday my bishop (not in NYC) said Mass for prolifers, then led them in a procession to protest outside an abortion clinic, right in the same city as our daily newspaper. On Sunday, there was no mention of this in the paper, but a very long article, promoted from the front page, about Catholics disagreeing with the Archbishop of a city a long ways away.

The media does not print articles about Catholics who support their bishops, or about non-Catholics who attack Catholic bishops. They are looking for Catholics who disagree with Catholic bishops, or with the Vatican.
 
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