New Zanchetta case documents complicate the Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cathoholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Cathoholic

Guest
From El Tribuno (with Google Translate)

New Zanchetta case documents complicate the Church​

FEBRUARY 21, 2019 - 03:11 Indicate that the Vatican knew the denunciations against the ex-bishop before giving him a charge. The religious is accused of abuses and economic mismanagement with “endorsement” of the Pope.
Silvia Noviasky

Internal documents of the Church show that authorities of the institution, including Pope Francis, knew the allegations of sexual abuse and economic mismanagement that weighed against the now ex-bishop of Oran Gustavo Zanchetta, before giving him a high position in the Vatican and transfer him to Rome . The religious sent intimate photos from his cell phone, harassed seminarians, did not register the sale of an important property and managed funds discretionally, according to the first formal complaint in the ecclesiastical field made by five renowned priests of the northern city, presentation to which he agreed The Tribune

Zanchetta faces a criminal case for sexual abuse as a result of a judicial complaint that was filed days ago, after the case was made public. But the suspicions against Zanchetta arose in the bosom of the Church since 2105, as described in the internal complaint.

After a secretary of the bishopric discovered sexual photos that Zanchetta had sent and received from his cell phone, priests alerted the authorities. According to what the text tells, after that the Pope called the then bishop to speak on the subject, but he was not separated from the position. Then in 2016, three of his vicars general and two monsignors made a formal internal complaint before the nunciature, insisting on “strange attitudes” of Zanchetta with the seminarians as "watching them at night walking through their rooms late at night with a flashlight, or ask for massages, or go into their rooms and sit on their beds, or encourage them to drink alcoholic beverages, . . .
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
A couple of other articles about this story:


https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2...ay-porn-on-his-phone-vatican-journalist-says/

It certainly looks like this bishop was given special treatment, likely due to his personal relationship with Pope Francis. This is a perfect example of why even with new policies or procedures that may come out of the abuse summit there is no guarantee that bishops will face justice if favoritism is shown towards certain members of the clergy.
 
This is exactly the kind of foundational handling motif of these issues that archbishop Vigano told the Church was occurring. (Archbishop Vigano exemplified this of course, with the specific case of Theodore McCarrick–then-Cardinal McCarrick).

And Pope Francis never denied archbishop Vigano’s statement either.
 
. . . . insisting on “strange attitudes” of Zanchetta with the seminarians as "watching them at night walking through their rooms late at night with a flashlight, or ask for massages, or go into their rooms and sit on their beds . . .
Click to expand...
Our poor Catholic seminarians.

This is awful.
 
Weserthy said:
This is a perfect example of why even with new policies or procedures that may come out of the abuse summit there is no guarantee that bishops will face justice if favoritism is shown towards certain members of the clergy.
Click to expand...
This is a perfect example of apple and oranges .
A bishop will face justice if it is reported to the Police.
A predator will face justice if it is reported to civil authorities
Otherwise, it is more of the same ” somebody said somebody knew “ and left for the Church to solve and sometimes many years later if not decades.
 
graciew said:
A bishop will face justice if it is reported to the Police.
Click to expand...
Does the promise of obedience to the bishop and his successors that a priest makes at his ordination prevent him from reporting abuse by the bishop? I ask because I haven’t seen a “#metoo” type reaction from the clergy in any of the current scandals.
 
How a bishop is to be held accountable was explicitly asked at one of the Abuse Summit press conferences.

The question was dodged under the guise of concern over a “specific case” (but they COULD have given a generalized answer. But they chose not to).
 
We are persons. Priests are too.
And have every bit of the dignity any person has to report abuse.
No one should go through that agony…

Ask your priest…
 
Last edited:
MikeInVA said:
40.png
graciew:
A bishop will face justice if it is reported to the Police.
Click to expand...
Does the promise of obedience to the bishop and his successors that a priest makes at his ordination prevent him from reporting abuse by the bishop? I ask because I haven’t seen a “#metoo” type reaction from the clergy in any of the current scandals.
Click to expand...
You make a good point here. I think in many cases a whistleblower priest would face significant backlash from other priests within his own dicoese and within the Church. Many members of the clergy seem to view promises of obedience to a bishop almost on the same level as the seal of confession, where it cannot be broken, no matter the reason. I would bet that there are many priests that would decline to report abuse or coverup of abuse by their bishop for fear of breaking their promise to obey the bishop. Some probably would also refuse to report out of fear of retaliation, as if their complaint falls on deaf ears (which is a definite possibility depending on who the bishop is) then they will be at the absolute mercy of their bishop in terms of their future career. I don’t know if there are any direct examples of this happening, but the closest I can think of is Archbishop Vigano, though he was already retired. He was roundly criticized for breaking the pontifical secret when he came out with his testimony, even though several of his accusations were later verified. But many people would have rather that he just kept his mouth shut and screw transparency, because he’s “disobeying the Pope.”
 
Last edited:
I know the priests around me , even in my own family. I have seen peaceful , kind souls turn tough at the very mistreatment of another person. And rightly so.
And this not even close to the type of abuse we are speaking about but verbal , by other women so much that a volunteer was made to cry .
Believe me…they dared not ever again.
He stopped it right away .
The priests I know are kind , patient and peaceful men of God. Including the Bishops…So it is hard for me to envisage such a scenario of being left aside, or called whistleblowers or the stuff you mention…It is different to my experience.
What I know is that their faces can turn very stern , rarely but rightly so.

I do not know what you mean by whistleblower. I mean witnesses.

Honestly, the best people to answer about priests, are priests themselves. Why don t you ask them personally…?
I have had no sad or disappointing experience with any of them, quite normal “ kids” some of them who have grown up in stature, wisdom and grace 🙂( I have known some of them since ordination, and before…so I ‘ be also grown older, not necessarily wiser.,)
 
Last edited:
Weserthy . . .
I would bet that there are many priests that would decline to report abuse or coverup of abuse by their bishop for fear of breaking their promise to obey the bishop. Some probably would also refuse to report out of fear of retaliation . . .
Click to expand...
That was a proverbial “lay up” that could have easily been done at the “Abuse on Minors Summit”.

A simple broad statement not only exempting priests from coming forth about bad bishops, but ordering them to do so.

And not merely notify the Vatican either (that was not effective at least initially with priests like “Don Mercedes” - Don Mauro Inzoli – You can read about Don here so it would likely be less effective with bad bishops. Zanchetta himself merely got moved around when it was exposed credibly of his abuse), but an admonition that the priests need to report it to the police.

Notifying the Vatican was also inneffective with Theodore “Ted” McCarrick.
 
Last edited:
More on this from Catholic News Agency . . .
. . . The documents seem to confirm earlier reporting by the Associated Press. Zanchetta also faces a judicial complaint of sexual abuse in Argentina that was recently made public.

Fr. Juan Jose Manzano, Zanchetta’s former vicar general in the diocese of Orán, told the Associated Press that the
Vatican received complaints against Zanchetta
in both 2015
and 2017,
but that the 2015 complaint against Zanchetta was not issued as an official canonical complaint.

According to The Tribune’s report, one of the Zanchetta’s secretaries alerted authorities after accidentally finding sexually explicit images sent and received on Zanchetta’s cell phone. The complaint says that some of the images depict “young people” having sex in addition to lewd images of Zanchetta. . . .

. . . .Pope Francis summoned Zanchetta to Rome for five days in October 2015.
The pope appeared to have accepted Zanchetta’s excuse
that his cell phone had been hacked,
and dismissed the allegations.

The 2017 internal accusation,
which The Tribune says alleged
more explicit abuse by Zanchetta of seminarians,
resulted in Zanchetta’s exit from the diocese,
though Zanchetta said he was resigning for health reasons.
The Vatican did not open an investigation at that time.

Manzano said part of the reason the allegations against Zanchetta may have not been taken seriously by the Vatican was because of the bishop’s close relationship with Pope Francis, who appointed him bishop of Orán in 2013. . . .

. . . The current Bishop of Orán is in the process of collecting testimonies regarding allegations against Zanchetta, which will be sent to the Congregation for Bishops.
Zanchetta is on a leave of absence while the investigation takes place.
Click to expand...

Why is Bishop Zanchetta on leave of absence?
If this moving around the alleged perpetrator was appropriate to begin with, WHY a leave of absence NOW?
 
Last edited:
Because he was suspended prom APSA after the preliminary investigation . Now( as far as I understand) the case is in the hands of Card. Ouellet from the Congregation of Bishops and the result of this instruction will pass to de CDF for a sentence.
Aside of that there is the penal accusation.
Is that what you had asked?
 
Last edited:
Is that what you had asked?
Click to expand...
Not really.

I was disappointed that there were credible allegations against bishop Zanchetta in 2015 and Zanchetta was still sent back to his diocese. (Even after knowing there were nude pictures of himself on the phone).

I think a more thorough investigation back in 2015 may have saved some pain.

I get that, that Zanchetta denied it (saying someone hacked his phone).

But if a man is going to do what is alleged against Zanchetta, I would not expect scruples about him lying either.

If he was set up that is serious too.

Either way, more steps should have occurred.

The Vatican should have gotten the Argentinian police involved immediately. (“Someone hacked his phone and is attempting to discredit him. Please police, look into this!”)

As far as I can tell none of that was ever done.

A bishop COULD have been sent to the diocese and with a reasonable investigation to check out Zanchetta too, and other things may have come to light.

As it is, now in 2019 that the story is public knowledge . . . it appears Zanchetta is at least on “leave of absence”.

(People are going to look at that and conclude it is not because of abuse but because of bad public relations that Zanchetta is on “leave of absence”.

Whatever “leave of absence” means (as far as I can tell, he may be going over to give “talks” to seminarians, hearing confessions, etc.).

After the 2015 apparent non-investigation . . . . seminarians were attacked culminating in a 2017 “move” (again, not taken out of ministry EVEN NOW as far as we know).

And this is exactly the kind of thing we have been told has been going on.
  • 2015 - Not much.
  • 2017 - Move the alleged perpetrator around. (Where have we heard THAT before back in 2002?)
  • 2019a - Pre Argentinian (and AP) news. Same as 2017.
  • 2019b - Post Argentinian (and AP) news. “Leave of absence” (whatever THAT means?)
Now that this is coming out, it does not look good.
 
Last edited:
Cathoholic said:
The Vatican should have gotten the Argentinian police involved immediately. (“Someone hacked his phone and is attempting to discredit him. Please police, look into this!”)

As far as I can tell none of that was ever done.
Click to expand...
I thought you had asked why he was “ on a leave” to which I answered . Sorry.,

Well, if it happens say to me that sb hacks my phone, it is me who has to report it to my cel phone co. And change chip.
If sb steals my credit card, or ID, then to my say Visa and the police in the case of my ID
Not “ my employer “, at least here…, if the poor analogy helps…
 
Last edited:
I thought you had asked why he was “ on a leave” . . .
Click to expand...
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

It was meant to be a rhetorical question
to get people to ask that question to themselves,
look over the evidence so far,
and then come to their own conclusions.
 
That is ok.
I have the same info you may read in the news or about.
We’ll see what comes out of the investigation .
It won t take long I believe.But who knows.
 
After reading about all the abise in the Church and the abuse elsewhere, I think the only thing to do is to set up a third-party system to evaluate and do things about the problems.

All too often it seems like the popular folks get a break. The authority needs to be taken out of the hands of those who have a relationship with or a benefit from the accused. A personal assistant complains of harassment from the top salesperson? A bishop receives complaints about a very popular priest?

Not to mention that organizations rarely have the investigative staff to properly evaluate these problems.
 
Annie . . . .
I think the only thing to do is to set up a third-party system to evaluate and do things about the problems.
Click to expand...
Our Lord Jesus is giving these men every possible chance to do this cleaning themselves.

But alas. It appears they are not going to follow their own items any time soon (at least according to other bishops. I’ve cited them numerous times here on CAF).

So if they don’t clean house, our Lord will use some other avenue to clean up for them. Perhaps the secular authorities.

Unfortunately as seen throughout history . . . when that type of “clean-up” occurs it is much more painful.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top