Newlyweds struggling with sexual issue

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Sapphire1022

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My husband and I have been married for three months now, and have been practicing NFP. Just as a little background, both of us are Catholic and were virgins when we married. Both of us were very devout as young people, but have recently struggled in our faith. I have a very strong desire to live as a faithful Catholic, whereas my husband is much more questioning. He struggled with masturbation as a teen and young adult in college, and I by God’s grace had been free from any major sexual sins as a single person.

We’ve been using NFP, and all in all things have been going very well. My husband doesn’t agree with the philosophy behind NFP (despite my best efforts to explain it to him, he still views it as simply “Catholic contraception” rather than something inherently different), but he has agreed to use NFP in our marriage and is generally agreeable about it.

However, recently a pretty hefty issue has arisen. During the first two months of our marriage, he would get very sexually frustrated during our periods of abstinence. This led to multiple occasions of us being close but not having intercourse, but him climaxing. More often than not this was intentional on both our parts. I have read that this is not in line with Catholic teaching (Christopher West wrote something along those lines, I’ve heard, though I haven’t read it myself. This is also referenced in the book “Holy Sex!” by Gregory Popcack), and I knew through my upbringing that this wasn’t acceptable either. However, at the time it was easier (though certainly still wrong) to go along with my husband and relieve his sexual tension.

This has been making my conscience uneasy and I recently told him that it’s something I’m not willing to do anymore, since I want us to live our sexual lives as faithful Catholics. I have explained the two ends of marital lovemaking - union of the spouses and the procreation of children, how each act of intercourse must be open to love and life, how his climax has procreative significance that is only appropriate in lovemaking that is open to life - and he doesn’t see what the big deal is. In his mind, there are “much bigger problems in the world”. He states that after many days without intercourse, the feelings of temptation to masturbate begin to return, which is something he hoped he’d never have to go through again after he got married. He knows it is an important matter to me, though, and so has agreed to comply, albeit somewhat reluctantly. I just don’t like not being of the same mind and heart on this.

So my question is twofold.
  1. Where exactly does the prohibition against male climax outside of the wife’s body come from? I’ve heard that it’s from JPII’s Love and Responsibility. If that’s true, where exactly? I’d like to see something rooting this directly in church teaching.
  2. What on earth can I do/say to my husband to help him see where I’m coming from?
Sorry for being so long-winded…
 
I recommend Christopher West’s books Theology of the Body for beginners and Good news about sex and marriage. Read them together.

orgasm separated from intercourse is masturbation. All you are doing is assisting him masturbation.
 
Sapphire1022 said:
  1. Where exactly does the prohibition against male climax outside of the wife’s body come from? I’ve heard that it’s from JPII’s Love and Responsibility. If that’s true, where exactly? I’d like to see something rooting this directly in church teaching.
  2. What on earth can I do/say to my husband to help him see where I’m coming from?
Sorry for being so long-winded…
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vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Humanae Vitae is as clear of an answer as you’re going to get. I’d recommend reading the entire thing, but if you just want something short, ctrol f and search for “any action” and it’ll take you to the section.

Its important to remember that if you are using NFP, you’re using knowledge of your body to decide when to be sexually intimate. Its effectiveness at preventing pregnancy is solely based on abstaining. You don’t have to have sex during your infertile time. You may put a greater priority on your infertile time to make the most of things, but NFP is still reliant on periodic abstainence. What you would be doing in substituting other behaviors would be to use those other behaviors as your contraceptive method, but to use fertility awareness to reduce your need to resort to a contraceptive action.
 
God bless you and your husband, I will pray for both of you.
 
My husband also had quite a struggle with the periodic abstinence that comes along with NFP. At the time he told me that he felt like “the church has ideals that none of us can reach, and this is as good as I can do but I’ll never reach the ideal.” It was definitely a journey for both of us.

We read “The Good News About Sex and Marriage,” by Christopher West together. It’s got some very good logical explanations about why NFP is acceptable and about the Church’s view on human sexuality. It’s really a beautiful viewpoint.

It might not change your husband’s mind immediately, but it could plant a seed. When it comes right down to it, your husband won’t accept anything until he’s ready for it. You can help him along and give him the information that you find, but it will be up to him to change his own view of sex. In the meantime, pray for your husband. When you think of him, think of him as a loving and supportive husband, rather than dwelling on his more frustrating points. Be patient and gentle and open in your communication with your husband. Let him know how important it is to you. Let him know that he is important to you as well.
 
Think of God as someone who loves you, and dwell on the issue.

Still see a problem in formalities? 😉
 
Sapphire1022 said:
  1. Where exactly does the prohibition against male climax outside of the wife’s body come from? I’ve heard that it’s from JPII’s Love and Responsibility. If that’s true, where exactly? I’d like to see something rooting this directly in church teaching.
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While it is likely most recently explained and expressed in JPII’s writings, this comes directly from the bible. See the story of Onan. Also, the Catechism section on the Sixth Commandment. It is a sin against chastity. You are spot on in your reasoning and in your desire to live a holy life.
Sapphire1022 said:
  1. What on earth can I do/say to my husband to help him see where I’m coming from?
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I don’t know if you can. He is determined to put sexual pleasure first in his life. He needs some help to grow in chastity and maturity as a man.

I suggest www.dads.org for that. He has little self control and has never demanded it of himself. I’m sorry you are having to bear the brunt of his displeasure as you demand it of him.

He needs to learn that chastity is an integral part of **all **states in life. He likely had the wrong idea that he had to wait for marriage to have sex and the he could “feast” on sex without restraint. That is not true and not in line with the virtue of chastity.
 
Castello said:
Also, make sure that you do have a serious reason to avoid children. If you are a healthy woman, you are married, pray that you will be able to welcome children and not avoid blessings!
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This is a good piont as well. Examine your reasons for avoiding.
 
I recommend that we men decrease our exposure to pop culture’s hotties. Exposure to them only gets us all fired up. I recommend the beauty and romanticism of Tchaikosky’s Piano Concerto No 1 in B flat minor or Vivaldi’s Four Seasons Summer. We need to channel in a more romantic direction. But don’t be too hard on him. It’s difficult for women to understand the extreme urgency of the male sex drive. Try, but that’s the beauty of confession.
 
How long are the days of abstinence? You mentioned many days. Perhaps the NFP use is not entirely accurate? Using Marquette model and Clearblue, you only ovulate 1 day each month, and you can abstain at that time to avoid pregnancy as well as just a few days before - and also watching mucus/temperature. Your hubby was a virgin before he married and struggled with masturbation so understandably, he’s married now to a beautiful woman and wants to enjoy intimacy with you - a lot. 😉

I struggled with the Church’s teaching re: NFP until I read Theology of the Body - it all makes sense to me now. We’ve been married 11 years, succesfully using NFP and we planned conceiving our 2nd child. 1st child we just let it happen. Of course, we’re open to children throughout our marriage (we’re not always careful and go with the flow of things sometimes). Praying for you and your hubby and enjoy this newlywed time! Honeymoon phase only lasts for so long 🙂
Maria
 
Observing the Natural Law
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  1. The sexual activity, in which husband and wife are intimately and chastely united with one another, through which human life is transmitted, is, as the recent Council recalled, "noble and worthy.’’ (11) It does not, moreover, cease to be legitimate even when, for reasons independent of their will, it is foreseen to be infertile. For its natural adaptation to the expression and strengthening of the union of husband and wife is not thereby suppressed. The fact is, as experience shows, that new life is not the result of each and every act of sexual intercourse. God has wisely ordered laws of nature and the incidence of fertility in such a way that successive births are already naturally spaced through the inherent operation of these laws. The Church, nevertheless, in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life. (12)
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Union and Procreation
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  1. This particular doctrine, often expounded by the magisterium of the Church, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act.
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The reason is that the fundamental nature of the marriage act, while uniting husband and wife in the closest intimacy, also renders them capable of generating new life—and this as a result of laws written into the actual nature of man and of woman. And if each of these essential qualities, the unitive and the procreative, is preserved, the use of marriage fully retains its sense of true mutual love and its ordination to the supreme responsibility of parenthood to which man is called. We believe that our contemporaries are particularly capable of seeing that this teaching is in harmony with human reason.
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I would attack the problem from more the standpoint of someone being enslaved to their passions. His body controls him in this regard and when he realizes this and commits himself to fighting it, he will become a much stronger man. Him struggling with this is no different then if he struggled with controlling his anger and allowed his anger to control his actions at times. Both failures can have drastic consequences for a marriage. He needs to gain control of his sexual passions before he will have any hope of understanding the teaching.
 
Actually, his body is doing what a young married man is supposed to do - married people are supposed to have sex and have babies. Only something seriously amiss should keep them from welcoming children as they promised to do at their wedding.

Why do we think that the default for marriage is to refuse children from day 1?
 
Thank you all so much for the prayers, resources, and advice so far. It is deeply appreciated!

Yes, it would be easier to not abstain during the fertile times, and possibly conceive. My husband and I are definitely looking forward to having children. This just isn’t a solution to our current problem, however, which is how to live chastely as a married couple. There are times in life when periods of abstinence are necessary. As is the duty of husbands and wives, we have decided that responsible parenthood for us is not actively seeking to conceive at this time, for serious reasons. Starting to have kids right away because my husband has difficulty managing his sex drive isn’t a long-term solution to this problem.

I read Humanae Vitae in college and reread it again this morning - I am looking forward to reading it and a few other books with my husband. I’m starting to see more clearly right now that I think the best way to approach this is through loving and supporting him, seeking to “learn together” with him, and affirming all the ways he is a wonderful husband. He is very self-directed and independent, and I’m not going to get anywhere by trying to “school” him.

If anyone has any good resources on Catholic spirituality for men, i’d really appreciate if you’d pass them along. And I mean Catholic resources for manly men. Strong, protective, breadwinning, leader-type, football-playing meat-eating manly men. 😃
 
Sapphire1022 said:
Thank you all so much for the prayers, resources, and advice so far. It is deeply appreciated!

Yes, it would be easier to not abstain during the fertile times, and possibly conceive. My husband and I are definitely looking forward to having children. This just isn’t a solution to our current problem, however, which is how to live chastely as a married couple. There are times in life when periods of abstinence are necessary. As is the duty of husbands and wives, we have decided that responsible parenthood for us is not actively seeking to conceive at this time, for serious reasons. Starting to have kids right away because my husband has difficulty managing his sex drive isn’t a long-term solution to this problem.

I read Humanae Vitae in college and reread it again this morning - I am looking forward to reading it and a few other books with my husband. I’m starting to see more clearly right now that I think the best way to approach this is through loving and supporting him, seeking to “learn together” with him, and affirming all the ways he is a wonderful husband. He is very self-directed and independent, and I’m not going to get anywhere by trying to “school” him.

If anyone has any good resources on Catholic spirituality for men, i’d really appreciate if you’d pass them along. And I mean Catholic resources for manly men. Strong, protective, breadwinning, leader-type, football-playing meat-eating manly men. 😃
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I just wanted to add to what I’ve already mentioned here. I got interrupted by my kids while posting last night–life calls! 🙂

Make sure that you continue to tell your husband how much you love, value, and desire him. Part of his struggle is that he likely feels rejected by you during the times when you must abstain. I know my husband felt that way for a time. He felt like it was easy for me to give him up (which it wasn’t always) during those times. Make sure you’re telling him how you feel–that you do still desire him, but that you desire to show him the utmost respect and love by this sacrifice that you’ve both agreed is necessary right now.

You are wise for trying to find a long-term solution right now, rather than just agreeing to get pregnant right away. Some women’s sex drives plummet when they’re pregnant, and if you’re already having this problem it will only add to the stress. (Some women don’t have that problem at all, though–so take that advice with a grain of salt!) And after birth, the woman’s body requires about six weeks to heal before she can resume sexual activity. I’m sure that would seem like an eternity for a healthy male who desires his wife!
 
Castello said:
I’d suggest you get a copy of Steve Ray’s talks for men.

steveraysstore.com/audio/men-marriage-sex-heaven-cd-and-mp3.html

steveraysstore.com/audio/catholic-family-husbands-and-wives-cd.html

Masturbation is a sin. When he chooses to accept that, it will be a big step.

Also, make sure that you do have a serious reason to avoid children. If you are a healthy woman, you are married, pray that you will be able to welcome children and not avoid blessings!
Click to expand...
Re posting two very good talks for men.
 
Sapphire1022 said:
Thank you all so much for the prayers, resources, and advice so far. It is deeply appreciated!

Yes, it would be easier to not abstain during the fertile times, and possibly conceive. My husband and I are definitely looking forward to having children. This just isn’t a solution to our current problem, however, which is how to live chastely as a married couple. There are times in life when periods of abstinence are necessary. As is the duty of husbands and wives, we have decided that responsible parenthood for us is not actively seeking to conceive at this time, for serious reasons. Starting to have kids right away because my husband has difficulty managing his sex drive isn’t a long-term solution to this problem.

I read Humanae Vitae in college and reread it again this morning - I am looking forward to reading it and a few other books with my husband. I’m starting to see more clearly right now that I think the best way to approach this is through loving and supporting him, seeking to “learn together” with him, and affirming all the ways he is a wonderful husband. He is very self-directed and independent, and I’m not going to get anywhere by trying to “school” him.

If anyone has any good resources on Catholic spirituality for men, i’d really appreciate if you’d pass them along. And I mean Catholic resources for manly men. Strong, protective, breadwinning, leader-type, football-playing meat-eating manly men. 😃
Click to expand...
Here are some recommendations:
  • Be A Man by Fr. Larry Richards
  • Holy Sex by Dr. Gregory Popcak
  • The Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West
These are great places to start.

If he has time to listen to talks he can go to www.catholicmentoday.org for a TON of talks for men.
 
  • Be A Man by Fr. Larry Richards
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I second this recommendation. I read this book a year or two ago, and it is full of good, concrete guidance on how to live life as a Catholic man. It doesn’t concentrate only on the issues of sexuality, but it does spend some time on sexual issues.

However, if your husband is not much of a reader, then the Steve Ray talks which have been recommended might be a better choice.
 
1ke said:
While it is likely most recently explained and expressed in JPII’s writings, this comes directly from the bible. See the story of Onan.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect. Onan is not a story against masturbation. The story of Onan is about disobedience on specific issues with respect to God. The ancient Jews even had cleanliness rules dealing with male emissions.
 
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