Newman's beatification is disturbing

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Hey rjs. I would appreciate the link very much. Thanks.
Here is a copy. You can check the reliability of the source- it seems fine to me.
I need to post it in two parts due to length restrictions:

English translation, provided by Michael Davies, also included in Davies’ Lead Kindly Light: The Life of John Henry Newman, Neumann Press, 2001.
LETTER
In which Pope Pius X approves the work of the Bishop of Limerick
on the writings of Cardinal Newman.
To his Venerable Brother
Edward Thomas Bishop of Limerick
Venerable Brother, greetings and Our Apostolic blessing. We hereby inform you that your essay, in which you show that the writings of Cardinal Newman, far from being in disagreement with Our Encyclical Letter Pascendi, are very much in harmony with it, has been emphatically approved by Us: for you could not have better served both the truth and the dignity of man. It is clear that those people whose errors We have condemned in that Document had decided among themselves to produce something of their own invention with which to seek the commendation of a distinguished person. And so they everywhere assert with confidence that they have taken these things from the very source and summit of authority, and that therefore We cannot censure their teachings, but rather that We had even previously gone so far as to condemn what such a great author had taught. Incredible though it may appear, although it is not always realised, there are to be found those who are so puffed up with pride that it is enough to overwhelm the mind, and who are convinced that they are Catholics and pass themselves off as such, while in matters concerning the inner discipline of religion they prefer the authority of their own private teaching to the pre-eminent authority of the Magisterium of the Apostolic See. Not only do you fully demonstrate their obstinacy but you also show clearly their deceitfulness. For, if in the things he had written before his profession of the Catholic faith one can justly detect something which may have a kind of similarity with certain Modernist formulas, you are correct in saying that this is not relevant to his later works. Moreover, as far as that matter is concerned, his way of thinking has been expressed in very different ways, both in the spoken word and in his published writings, and the author himself, on his admission into the Catholic Church, forwarded all his writings to the authority of the same Church so that any corrections might be made, if judged appropriate. Regarding the large number of books of great importance and influence which he wrote as a Catholic, it is hardly necessary to exonerate them from any connection with this present heresy. And indeed, in the domain of England, it is common knowledge that Henry Newman pleaded the cause of the Catholic faith in his prolific literary output so effectively that his work was both highly beneficial to its citizens and greatly appreciated by Our Predecessors: and so he is held worthy of office whom Leo XIII, undoubtedly a shrewd judge of men and affairs, appointed Cardinal; indeed he was very highly regarded by him at every stage of his career, and deservedly so. Truly, there is something about such a large quantity of work and his long hours of labour lasting far into the night that seems foreign to the usual way of theologians: nothing can be found to bring any suspicion about his faith. You correctly state that it is entirely to be expected that where no new signs of heresy were apparent he has perhaps used an off-guard manner of speaking to some people in certain places, but that what the Modernists do is to falsely and deceitfully take those words out of the whole context of what he meant to say and twist them to suit their own meaning. (continued in next post)
 
(continued from previous post)
We therefore congratulate you for having, through your knowledge of all his writings, brilliantly vindicated the memory of this eminently upright and wise man from injustice: and also for having, to the best of your ability, brought your influence to bear among your fellow-countrymen, but particularly among the English people, so that those who were accustomed to abusing his name and deceiving the ignorant should henceforth cease doing so. Would that they should follow Newman the author faithfully by studying his books without, to be sure, being addicted to their own prejudices, and let them not with wicked cunning conjure anything up from them or declare that their own opinions are confirmed in them; but instead let them understand his pure and whole principles, his lessons and inspiration which they contain. They will learn many excellent things from such a great teacher: in the first place, to regard the Magisterium of the Church as sacred, to defend the doctrine handed down inviolately by the Fathers and, what is of highest importance to the safeguarding of Catholic truth, to follow and obey the Successor of St. Peter with the greatest faith. To you, therefore, Venerable Brother, and to your clergy and people, We give Our heartfelt thanks for having taken the trouble to help Us in Our reduced circumstances by sending your communal gift of financial aid: and in order to gain for you all, but first and foremost for yourself, the gifts of God’s goodness, and as a testimony of Our benevolence, We affectionately bestow Our Apostolic blessing. Given in Rome at St. Peter’s, on 10 March 1908, in the fifth year of Our Pontificate.
Pius PP. X
 
What Cardinal Newman is speaking about is the definition of dogmas. Many dogmas were defined after the deaths of the last apostle. But they existed in seminal form in the Church prior to their definition. A good example that Cardinal Newman gives is the teaching on the episcopacy. Like this there was the Immaculate Concpetion and the Assumption of Mary or the hypostatic union. These dogmas were defined long after the death of the apostles.
And none of these changes were deemed anathema by St. Pius X.
As one cardinal whom I know once said, “Someone is always going to be angry.” This is true.
How true.

I agree with others here that I simply do not see the contradiction between this man’s teaching and established doctrine of the Church. Since the Church also does not see a problem, why is anyone even looking for a problem. Could it be that some miss the devil’s advocate so much that they want to apply for the job?
 
Either accept it or don’t this is heresy:
“We shall find ourselves unable, to fix an historical point at which the growth of doctrine ceased. Not on the day of Pentecost, for St. Peter had still to learn at Joppa about the baptism of Cornelius; not at Joppa and Caesarea, for St. Paul had to write his Epistles; not on the death of the last apostle,.…"(pg.107 from: An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine)

Pope Pius X condemned his idea in Lamentabili Sane, July 3, 1907-- #21: "Revelation, constituting the object of the Catholic faith, was not completed with the Apostles." --condemned.
Sorry, but the Church has the final say as to whether someone is a heretic or stattement they made or wrote is heretical. The Church clearly has determined Cardinal Newman is not a heretic.
 
Here is a copy. You can check the reliability of the source- it seems fine to me.
I need to post it in two parts due to length restrictions:

English translation, provided by Michael Davies, also included in Davies’ Lead Kindly Light: The Life of John Henry Newman, Neumann Press, 2001.
LETTER
In which Pope Pius X approves the work of the Bishop of Limerick
on the writings of Cardinal Newman.
To his Venerable Brother
Edward Thomas Bishop of Limerick
Venerable Brother, greetings and Our Apostolic blessing. …
Thank you for providing something of substance and not just using name calling.

I can accept this letter, but I think we must admit that the Essay on the Development of Doctrine was written essentially before he entered the Church and was published soon after entering the Church as a Catholic with some small changes. I claim his book falls into what Pius X says : "For, if in the things he had written before his profession of the Catholic faith one can justly detect something which may have a kind of similarity with certain Modernist formulas, you are correct in saying that this is not relevant to his later works."

THe quotes I have given should be enough.
In his book:
He believed infant baptism evolved
-----purgatory evolved
-----The Christianity was not founded as a Church but an Idea
-----the Episcopacy was started By St. Ignatius
----- Revelation didn’t end with the Death of the last Apostles

As for what learned people who were against this book Orestes Brownson one of the greatest Catholic minds in USA Catholicism wrote 4 essays against his work.

I hold that this book on Developments contains some form of Modernism.
 
The Church long taught that slavery was allowable, even desirable in certain circumstances. Today, it condemns slavery. A change no?

Similarly, the Church long condemned democracy but reversed this stance at Vatican II.

The reality is that doctrine changes over time. That is not the same thing as a change in Revelation.
 
The Church long taught that slavery was allowable, even desirable in certain circumstances. Today, it condemns slavery. A change no?

Similarly, the Church long condemned democracy but reversed this stance at Vatican II.

The reality is that doctrine changes over time. That is not the same thing as a change in Revelation.
Hi LP2P,

I think you are being a little too loose in saying that the Church has changed her views on slavery and democracy. I would be more comfortable saying that there are forms of slavery and democracy which have always been condemned and always remain permissible. You even used the words “reversed this stance”. I don’t think so. I’ll try to explain briefly.

The Church has never condoned the African slave trade or any other kidnapping and enslaving of individuals for monetary gain. She has permitted that criminals, including enemies in a just war may be sentenced to penal servitude.

The Church has never condemned all democracy, only godless democracy such as the French Revolution that would overthrow the established order and persecute Christians. St. Thomas gave the teaching of the Church in His letter to the King of Malta where he clearly outlines the advantages and disadvantages of monarchy, oligarchy, and democracy.

Since growth is change, I agree that doctrine changes over time, just not the ones you picked. I believe we understand the prerogatives of the papacy more clearly today than did St. Clement of Rome. We have to be careful. Doctrine cannot contradict from one age to the next. It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that the Church now condemns what she once condoned. That would be unacceptable change and I am sure that is incompatible with St. Pius X

As far as I have hitherto understood, Newman was eager to condemn “growth” that was contradictory too. I thought Newman was a patristic scholar who was uncomfortable claiming that the Christians of the first three centuries had as clear a picture of Apostolic revelation as we do today, after 2,000 years. It is with difficulty that I can avoid believing in the accumulated definitions of the Church during that period without allowing some theory of doctrinal development within the same genus, based on the original apostolic deposit. His theory of development helps with that. I have read Orestes Brownson and he doesn’t talk about patristics. He just condemns Newman. He replaces something with nothing.

It appears to at least one serious Catholic here that St. Pius X condemned the theory of Newman at least, and perhaps any theory. I would be torn if I were to be finally convinced that PIus X denied every theory of doctrinal development in his writings. The problemfor me is that my reading of history makes me doubt that infallible definitions of doctrine were as clearly understood prior to the definition. Until now, it has been Newmanesque doctrinal development that allows me to acknowledge the subordinationism in ante-Nicene Fathers who did not have benefit of the Council of Nicea. I don’t know how to defend some canonized churchmen if the Church has clearly understood every defined doctrine, without growth or increase, since the death of the last Apostle. Newman supplied a defense, although it is arguably wrong. Brownson takes it away.

Rory
 
rjs1,

Wow. Thank you very much for supplying Pope Pius X’s resounding endorsement of the work of John Henry Newman. My mind is put at rest. Great. I hand’t seen it when I wrote the preceding post. Now to address treba’s latest wherein he doesn’t seem moved enough by this ringing tribute by the pope he says condemns Newman.

treba
THe quotes I have given should be enough.
In his book:

He believed infant baptism evolved
-----purgatory evolved
-----The Christianity was not founded as a Church but an Idea
-----the Episcopacy was started By St. Ignatius
----- Revelation didn’t end with the Death of the last Apostles

As for what learned people who were against this book Orestes Brownson one of the greatest Catholic minds in USA Catholicism wrote 4 essays against his work.

I hold that this book on Developments contains some form of Modernism.

Rory
I hold that “the writings of Cardinal Newman, far from being in disagreement with Our Encyclical Letter Pascendi, are very much in harmony with it, has been emphatically approved by Us.” It seems to me like you need to distinguish between “growth in doctrine” and “Revelation didn’t end with the Death of the last Apostles.”

I have been sympathetic up to this point, but it seems to me like you should take pause from this letter which actually says what Pius X thought of Newman’s work. You have begun by being disturbed at Newman’s cause for canonization because of his essay which he submitted to the Vatican for approval before his conversion. Let us suppose that you and Brownson are correct and Pius X is wrong about how Newman’s Essay contradicts Pius X. Are you disturbed that St Augustine is canonized? After all, he was a Manichean before his conversion. If St. Augustine’s pre-conversion doctrines don’t prevent his worthiness, I don’t see how Newman’s early writings should even enter the picture.

I am not concerned with Brownson’s four essays. He died before Pius X endorsed Newman. When you seemed to be making headway in showing an incompatibility with Pius X, my mind was open. I was loathe to condemn Newman, but how could I oppose Pius X? Now, unless you have some more information, it is our turn to see if you will accept the specific judgment of Pope St. Pius X. Had you been familiar with this letter to the Bishop of Limerick already? If not, I sincerely hope you will reconsider what appears to me to be the end of the argument.

Regards,

Rory
 
I believe that anything that the Holy Spirit does that we find disturbing is our problem, not his. If Cardinal Newman is beatified, this is an action of the Holy Spirit. If he is canonized, then it’s set in stone. There are no more questions other than to ask ourselves what is wrong with us, not with Cardinal Newman.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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