News from Diocese of Saginaw, MI

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It has now been several months since Pope Benedict XVI issued the motu proprio regarding the extraordinary form of the Mass.

Has the Diocese of Saginaw formally commented on it, one way or another? I can’t even find an acknowledgement of it at all on the diocesan website www.saginaw.org
:confused:
I guess not. 😦
 
It’s my understanding that there aren’t any priests in the Saginaw diocese qualified to celebrate the Latin Mass let alone willing to do it.

If I’m mistaken, please correct me.
 
It’s my understanding that there aren’t any priests in the Saginaw diocese qualified to celebrate the Latin Mass let alone willing to do it.

If I’m mistaken, please correct me.
Do you have a source for this comment, or just guessing? We do have some senior priests that remained “traditional” over the years that might be qualified and willing to say the extraordinary rite every now and then. I would also guess His Excellency might be qualified.

The question remains, why have we heard nothing official from the diocese about the Motu Proprio? It could be the explanation above, no one is qualified. It could be no one has asked. Or it could be that His Excellency has decided that the document does not need an official statement from the diocese, that it stands on its own merits?
 
This subject has been on my heart and mind for a few years and I feel one that needs addressed. It is difficult to ask the hard questions, be open to the Word of God, and SEE the TRUTH as Christ intended, and in turn be willing to live in the Will of God. We must have 20/20 vision when it comes to being a Kingdom people. All are held responsible, accountable, and living according to Christ’s Will in our lives should not be motivated by subjective relativism.
Centering on SELF, is the basis to all sin. SO, I ask:

How are we incorporating the wisdom of God when we decide to spend millions and millions on newly built churches, renovations, additions, and so forth in this Diocese. Some of the most recent that I am personally aware of, St Stanlislaus, St James, Sacred Heart (BR). How is it, EXACTLY, we have given in to the Consumerism of the secular world. WE are not our brick and mortar. WE are the BODY OF CHRIST. How have we lost our vision in this. Must we frill and thrill people, comfort them, impress them, in order to EVANGELIZE them into our faith community. TO the Body and Blood of Christ. What can be greater. WHY isn’t it enough?. I am not talking about renovations done in a church to assure safety issues, leaky roofs, electrical problems, etc.

WHO in the parish decides to heavily burden the people of the parish with monstrous loans. Is it the Pastor alone, directing the project?. This conjures up whispered nuances of a Priest wanting to leave a legacy, a shrine to himself, a way to be remembered. This is the communications that circulates, the impression damages the Kingdom. Is it the parish council, who under peer pressure, not wanting to make waves, allows millions of dollars to be spent. Does it ultimately lie with-in the Diocese’s, the approval of the board?. Is this dependent upon the popularity of the priest, the longevity of the priest, connections and ties. WHY must we limit our vision, become prisoner to our own DEBT pile, allowing everything else we do, for years to come, to be dictated by the DEBT. How we worship, how we tend to the poor, who and if we hire. I think to Bishop Untener, who mandated that for one year, before any meeting, the question, the consideration of " How will this be of service to poor" was asked.

I consider the Mission and Religious Community set up by our very own Bishop Carlson. Christ in action. Columbia in desperate need, he answered God’s call in a tangible and miraculous way. $2k for a home for those in need, a beginning of a religious community, recognizing Christ in the poor. Attending in a real way. A building of the KINGDOM. How many homes, basic shelter for those less fortunate than us, could one million buy. I think so much about the missionaries that visit our very own parishes, telling the need of clean water, worship space. On our very own judgment day, First consideration will be: how well did we LOVE one another, recognize Christ in one another, FEED the hungry, the poor, the oppressed. FEED his sheep. Most certainly, the next question will not be, “how big and new was the church we built”, while we neglected the poor. DO NOT confuse yourself. WE DO NOT GIVE ENOUGH, not to our capabilities.We must realize that by Virtue of our own Baptism, we are held highly accountable, we take in the BODY of CHRIST, we MUST do CHRIST"S WILL WE will answer to God. We not only need to reach those who have left the Catholic Church, but those in third world countries, Africa, South America, who are yearning and dying to live their faith. TO have a place of worship. The cost is so little, the need so great. WHAT right do we have to be so frivolous with the many BLESSINGS GOD has given each and everyone of us. If you are on this site, on your computer, you most likely rank in the top 5%, income in this world. WE must walk the talk, bring people home, love one another, spread our faith, and be open to STEWARDSHIP, not selfishness. I can’t help it, selfishness, to me, dictates all sin.

I want to SEE the truth of all this. It makes me quesy, feels inherently wrong, to spend millions on NEW< NEW< NEW, all the while, not in a true and authentic way, willing to walk a mile in our brother’s shoes.

I want to see clearly!
LRS
 
LRS:

What expenditures are you referring to? It’s hard to reply unless you be more specific.
 
It is not precise but: St Stalislaus ($5mil), St james ($1.5 mil), Sacred Heart ($3mil). Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
It is not precise but: St Stalislaus ($5mil), St james ($1.5 mil), Sacred Heart ($3mil). Please correct me if I am wrong.
You make some serious allegations in your other post. How do you know that these aren’t legitimate and needed capital improvement expenditures?

It could very well be that these projects are long overdue–but Bishop Ken just kept putting them off.
 
Dear Lepanto, ironically enough I just read that the New Parish center for St Stan’s was unveiled and the cost is 4.2 mil. St James , I believe is a parish center as well. Sacred Heart was a brand new parish. I notice you are from Boise, so you may not be familiar.
These are not allegations, just concerns that while we are spending these millions, so many go hungry. Let the Holy Spirit have the last word, as Bishop always says.
 
You make some serious allegations in your other post. How do you know that these aren’t legitimate and needed capital improvement expenditures?

It could very well be that these projects are long overdue–but Bishop Ken just kept putting them off.
Let me jump in here…

There can be no doubt that the physical plants of many of these places needed updating…

However…one could question the need to spend 5 million dollars combined on two parishes that are about 6 blocks apart in a town where the population is declining rapidly.

Keep in mind that many multi million dollar building projects took place in the late 90s in Bay City as well…while the Catholic schools had no money…

These building projects have a lot more to do with ego and old parish rivalries than anything else.
 
That is right Frommi, and something that I did not consider. If tithing is down, and the MI economy is the worse in the nation, and due to building in Iraq and China, lumber has skyrocketed (and fuel has increased the price of everything) where is our larger vision???
Ego runs contrary to the work of the Holy Spirit.
 
Dear Lepanto, ironically enough I just read that the New Parish center for St Stan’s was unveiled and the cost is 4.2 mil. St James , I believe is a parish center as well. Sacred Heart was a brand new parish. I notice you are from Boise, so you may not be familiar.
These are not allegations, just concerns that while we are spending these millions, so many go hungry. Let the Holy Spirit have the last word, as Bishop always says.
I spent many years in Ubley, and I still have many relations in the Thumb.
 
So you are implying that ego is what is driving these projects? On evidence what do you base this?
Dear Lepanto, God Bless You, you must be a relation to or very familiar with Fr. Bill Rukowski, who is a brilliant, wise, steward of Christ and pastor of St Stan’s.
Please reflect back on the previous page, I can say it no other way but this:
.How many homes, basic shelter for those less fortunate than us, could one million buy. I think so much about the missionaries that visit our very own parishes, telling the need of clean water, worship space. On our very own judgment day, First consideration will be: how well did we LOVE one another, recognize Christ in one another, FEED the hungry, the poor, the oppressed. FEED his sheep. Most certainly, the next question will not be, “how big and new was the church we built”, while we neglected the poor. DO NOT confuse yourself. WE DO NOT GIVE ENOUGH, not to our capabilities.We must realize that by Virtue of our own Baptism, we are held highly accountable, we take in the BODY of CHRIST, we MUST do CHRIST"S WILL WE will answer to God. We not only need to reach those who have left the Catholic Church, but those in third world countries, Africa, South America, who are yearning and dying to live their faith. TO have a place of worship. The cost is so little, the need so great. WHAT right do we have to be so frivolous with the many BLESSINGS GOD has given each and everyone of us. If you are on this site, on your computer, you most likely rank in the top 5%, income in this world. WE must walk the talk, bring people home, love one another, spread our faith, and be open to STEWARDSHIP, not selfishness…
Lisa
 
Dear Lepanto, God Bless You, you must be a relation to or very familiar with Fr. Bill Rukowski, who is a brilliant, wise, steward of Christ and pastor of St Stan’s.
Sorry, I do not know him. You are now referring to him as “a brilliant, wise, steward of Christ,” but earlier you were alleging that he is on an expensive ego trip. Can this be logically consistent? :confused: Please explain.

And every time I hear someone give the argument that you are trying to make, it sooner or later devolves into “we should sell the Vatican too.” (That argument has been rebutted elsewhere.) Maybe we should all just sell our homes too? Who wants to be first?

But while we’re selling our homes and computers, let’s reflect on John Chapter 12, 1-8:

Six days before Passover Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead.

They gave a dinner for him there, and Martha served, while Lazarus was one of those reclining at table with him.

Mary took a liter of costly perfumed oil made from genuine aromatic nard and anointed the feet of Jesus 2 and dried them with her hair; the house was filled with the fragrance of the oil.

Then Judas the Iscariot, one (of) his disciples, and the one who would betray him, said,

“Why was this oil not sold for three hundred days’ wages 3 and given to the poor?”

He said this not because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief and held the money bag and used to steal the contributions.

So Jesus said, "Leave her alone. Let her keep this for the day of my burial.

You always have the poor with you, but you do not always have me."
 
Consider this Lepanto, I never directed the comment to any specific pastor, I questioned whether it was the pastor, the parish council, or diocesan review board that directs the spending of million. AND honestly, it is all of them. I ask, to be authentic and true, why not put these renovations to a parish vote, and I know personally, this does not happen.

The scripture reading you quote is often used as well to justify exuberance. Listen, we all live in this world full of greed and excess, and I am definately no holier than thou. It is just that, when we practice our Catholic and Universal faith, we must try to be as individuals as well as one faith community as authentic and genuine as we possibly can. Spending millions is way out of balance, and does not reflect “recognize Jesus in the poor, the hungry, etc”.
I am entitled to my opinion. Listen, this world wants you and I to believe in a saturation of hopelessness, I want to focus on the good. Because, all good things come from GOD. I only just read the article regarding ST Stans from the Catholic Weekly Saturday, after I wrote this. It was short and only spoke about the 1000 foot kitchen, the grills, the 3 car garage, etc. I am obviously not aware of the divine purpose of this. Perhaps Fr. should do an article about it. But, it is not just this parish. We live in an environment of excess. I am sorry, but any way you cut it, we should be giving out more fishing poles, and providing basic human needs, shelter, clothing.
I feel very strongly about this, helping the poor, how can that be wrong. AND, if I fail to understand, or condone, the politics behind getting million dollar loans, then so be it. This I will not apologize for.
Lisa
 
Here are some questions that might help clarify the thinking here:

*Is any use of funds, other than giving it to the poor, against the Gospel?

Will these new buildings interfere with the way these parishes help the poor? Or will they help?

Is the Church’s mission to undo all of the effects of poverty that it can until it runs out of resources? Or is it the salvation of souls through Jesus Christ?

How much money does any one of us spend on cars, houses, furniture, clothes, meals, pets, etc. … in relation to what we might give to the poor?*

Evangelical poverty is a counsel, not an imperative. That is, it is taken up voluntarily, not imposed universally.

“The saints always accuse themselves first.”
 
Dear Prochorus, I am concerned that you did not read my original statement, request, for clarity. Obviously, the questions you propose have nothing to do with spending millions and millions, we have a social responsibility. You are taking the complete opposite end of the spectrum of what I said, it is ineffective. Remember, the Gospel, The Word of Jesus Christ, is alive, and very much part of our everyday, we choose to selectively pick what suits us.
This is what I said, in part:
This subject has been on my heart and mind for a few years and I feel one that needs addressed. It is difficult to ask the hard questions, be open to the Word of God, and SEE the TRUTH as Christ intended, and in turn be willing to live in the Will of God. We must have 20/20 vision when it comes to being a Kingdom people. All are held responsible, accountable, and living according to Christ’s Will in our lives, and should not be motivated by subjective relativism.
Centering on SELF, is the basis to all sin. SO, I ask:

How are we incorporating the wisdom of God when we decide to spend millions and millions on newly built churches, renovations, additions, and so forth in this Diocese. Some of the most recent that I am personally aware of, St Stanlislaus, St James, Sacred Heart (BR). How is it, EXACTLY, we have given in to the Consumerism of the secular world. WE are not our brick and mortar. WE are the BODY OF CHRIST. How have we lost our vision in this. Must we frill and thrill people, comfort them, impress them, in order to EVANGELIZE them into our faith community. TO the Body and Blood of Christ. What can be greater. WHY isn’t it enough?. I am not talking about renovations done in a church to assure safety issues, leaky roofs, electrical problems, etc…
WHY must we limit our vision, become prisoner to our own DEBT pile, allowing everything else we do, for years to come, to be dictated by the DEBT. How we worship, how we tend to the poor, who and if we hire. I think to Bishop Untener, who mandated that for one year, before any meeting, the question, the consideration of " How will this be of service to poor" was asked.

I consider the Mission and Religious Community set up by our very own Bishop Carlson. Christ in action. Columbia in desperate need, he answered God’s call in a tangible and miraculous way. $2k for a home for those in need, a beginning of a religious community, recognizing Christ in the poor. Attending in a real way. A building of the KINGDOM. How many homes, basic shelter for those less fortunate than us, could one million buy. I think so much about the missionaries that visit our very own parishes, telling the need of clean water, worship space. On our very own judgment day, First consideration will be: how well did we LOVE one another, recognize Christ in one another, FEED the hungry, the poor, the oppressed. FEED his sheep. Most certainly, the next question will not be, “how big and new was the church we built”, while we neglected the poor. DO NOT confuse yourself. WE DO NOT GIVE ENOUGH, not to our capabilities.We must realize that by Virtue of our own Baptism, we are held highly accountable, we take in the BODY of CHRIST, we MUST do CHRIST"S WILL WE will answer to God. We not only need to reach those who have left the Catholic Church, but those in third world countries, Africa, South America, who are yearning and dying to live their faith. TO have a place of worship. The cost is so little, the need so great. WHAT right do we have to be so frivolous with the many BLESSINGS GOD has given each and everyone of us. If you are on this site, on your computer, you most likely rank in the top 5%, income in this world. WE must walk the talk, bring people home, love one another, spread our faith, and be open to STEWARDSHIP, not selfishness. I can’t help it, selfishness, to me, dictates all sin.

I want to SEE the truth of all this. It makes me quesy, feels inherently wrong, to spend millions on NEW< NEW< NEW, all the while, not in a true and authentic way, willing to walk a mile in our brother’s shoes.
 
I guess you aren’t going to answer my questions.

Can you give concrete evidence as to how these construction projects are based on what you claim? I would wonder if the Holy Spirit isn’t moving in doing something that seems foolish to human beings in terms of worldly wisdom (economy, population, other needs). So far, those are the only arguments I’ve read – worldly ones.

And when you get around to it, please consider prayerfully answering my questions.

Somehow I think that no matter what happens in your diocese, you’re going to find something wrong in it – just because it’s not what you’re accustomed to from the past.

Different does not equal uninspired or ego.

I invite you to read Isaiah 43:19, “Behold I do something new. It will come forth, and you will not recognize it.”

Are you not recognizing the movement of the Spirit of God because you choose to remain entrenched in old ideas?
 
Dear Prochorus, you are filled with presumptions:
Namely, how do you know that my responses were not prayerfully considered?
How is it you assume that this being stuck in the past Does apply to me. You SEE, we have been in the Saginaw Diocese for approximately 10 years. Bishop Robert J Carlson is an enormous gift for this diocese, a willing servant open to the Will of God, Now that we have that straight, don’t feed and expound upon the fear some people have in change. The Holy Spirit sent him here.
WE were in the Archdiocese of Detroit prior to now. The only deep seeted alliances, coalitions, and connections I have are with Jesus, the Savior of the Entire World, all the people in the world, all of them.
Have you often wondered how it was, by the miracle and gift your birth, you were “placed” on this side of he world, the side of the land of milk and honey. The gift of this is that you are held responsible to help all those who are less fortunate than you. Whose hands can Christ use but yours and mine. You see, the greatest commandment, Love God with all your heart, mind and soul and the second: Love your neighbor as yourself, is simple in theory, complex in execution. Sometimes we fail miserable, Now bear with me: because I don’t know anyway more that I can explain to you, that spending millions, so we can have new and be comforted, catered to, served, visually pleased, when we have so much already, is not the way to Evangelize. This will not bring Catholics home, nor will it attract new ones.
We have the Gift of the Eucharist to share. Jesus is the Savior of the whole world, comes to us in the Eucharist, communicates his love for us. Are we to hold it? Are we to indebt ourselves by millions under the premise that “it will bring people closer to Christ” The Eucharist in worldly terms costs nothing, we can not buy it, improve it, or make it look more attractive. Only the Holy Spirit brings people to the Eucharist, it may be through us, but it is not by brick and mortar. WE as a Catholic Church are in the “business” of people are we not?, not buildings, we have good buildings, we have churches that sit virtually empty on the weekend, with one Mass. We have beautiful cathedrals and wonderful Homages to celebrate Christ in our lives. We have the center of ministry building to use for large gatherings. WE are a community. Can’t close some inner city or rural churches as brand new multimillion dollars are being built. Looks inauthentic. We have enough, we have a beautiful worship space, we must give back.
WE, by virtue of our Baptism MUST, bring Christ to each other, recognizing Christ in one another, shelter and feed one another. A gold palace and a beggar on the street does not communicate the Love of God. God has entrusted us. HOW many scripture passages speak about this, who was invited to the DINNER, the Wedding Feast, The stations of the cross, HAVE I heard it all wrong?. IT can not be. WE have an enormous responsibility, accountability to bring people to Christ,so that all may experience in Joyful Fulness the Glory and Grace of God.

Frommi made an excellent point, why build two parish centers 6 blocks apart, at close to a combined cost of 6 million.
Jesus has a much larger vision. The greatest good for the greatest number of people. How that money could have been spent to build the Kingdom of God. I almost can not believe, in fact I am actually shaking my head, that this is not inherently believed and understood in its own right. We are all children of God, he does not love one of us more than others, feed one of us, shelter one of us and not the other. WE must step up in a grander way. AM i truly way off base about helping the poor, please, what could you possible by arguing against. Consider it…

Be in Peace,
Lisa
 
I never said your reply wasn’t prayerfully considered. I asked you to prayerfully answer my questions. I asked for concrete answers to four simple questions. Instead I’ve received two flames in response.

The point about money is a worldly point. What appears foolish in the eyes of the world may be great wisdom in the eyes of God. Who among us can say how God intended that money to be spent? And who among us knows God’s plans for those new buildings.

Do you see that the poor are being neglected? Did asking a question at the start of meetings for a year eliminate poverty by it’s mere asking? It would seem that Ken wanted to make us all more aware of the poor so that we might act on that awareness. If you see a need, then fill it. Didn’t Ken show how one person can make a difference? Or is his memory being served by accusing others of being giant egos and spendthrifts?
 
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