News Story Today about the Pope

[tweetymom]

What would you say when Protestant pastors are accused of pedophily? It has happened to them too, even though they didn’t make the news as much…

I have said the same thing to all Catholic, Protestant, they are all sick, sick. sick and they all deserve punishment. It makes the news not as big because the CC claims to be above all others.

 

[tweetymom]

Many people simply don’t want to examine the various aspects of the matter. It’s not as simple as it may seem sometimes. It’s quite easy to “simplistify” the whole thing, that is, to make it sound simple when in doing so we’re being quite simplistic.

Yea it is real simple to me, kick all who are involved out!!! Doesn’t seem to hard to me. I can talk with some authority been there done that and it is sickening. Like vomit in your mouth

 

[Lapell]

I have said the same thing to all Catholic, Protestant, they are all sick, sick. sick and they all deserve punishment. It makes the news not as big because the CC claims to be above all others.

Thanks, tweetymom! God bless you!

 

[Sherry_G]

Although it’s true that non-Catholic clergy have also been involved in these kinds of activities, the big difference is that there is not an institutional effort to cover up the charges and to shield the perpetrators from the consequences of their crimes. The Church isn’t responsible for the pedophilia (though I can’t help but think that the celibacy requirement attracts a certain contingent that are running away from some sexual problem or another); it is fully responsible for obstructing justice in the matter of sex offenders.

There is no other faith based institution that can even come close to the size of the Roman Catholic church, therefore you cannot really even use that argument about “institutional effort”. Additionally, there is absolutely NO connection between celibacy and pedophilia or other sex abuse. That opinion doesn’t hold water anymore than the argument that sex offenders are homosexuals.

The constant attacks directed at the Catholic Church are satanic in nature. So are the infiltration of sex offenders into the priesthood.

 

[Pilgrimage]

You speak as if the Church teaches that sex abuse is a good thing.

Peace,
Robert

I did NOT say that sex abuse was a good thing at all, nor did I say that anyone should approve of it in any way shape or form.

If the individuals who have been abused sacrifice their financial claims against the church, then unbelievers and liars will be exposed. I am not for one moment saying that it didn’t happen, or that they or the church shouldn’t say that it didn’t happen. It’s a serious issue that has hurt many souls.

No one can change what’s happened to anyone if they have been abused, but claiming compensation against the church instead of the individual concerned is only hurting the integrity of the church as a whole. This is NOT about turning a blind eye, but about the power of sacrifice over evil.

So, what would you have the church do, change nothing, do nothing and continue to make a payment to anyone and everyone who claims a priest has molested them? It’s a never ending gravy train that people are just going to keep jumping on.

People need Jesus and they can’t afford to be feeling guilty because they have taken money out of the church.

God bless

 

[Dokimas]

Therefore, following your logic, Jesus must not have had a right whatsoever to give Peter the keys to the Kingdom of God (Mt 16) and thus give him authority over the Church He established on earth, and He had no right to give the Apostles the power to tie and to untie.

Are you sure you understood me? My logic doesn’t lower Jesus to the status of you and me. Jesus can do whatever He wants to do within His nature. I’m not sure you or I really understand what Jesus was doing with the keys and the authority and Peter. But that’s another story. Right now we’re dealing with a position (pope) that, IMO, is dangerous for someone to hold and dangerous for people to follow. Dangerous because power (authority) in the hands of humans corrupts, absolute power (authority) has the potential to corrupt absolutely.

 

[Pilgrimage]

What would you say when Protestant pastors are accused of pedophily? It has happened to them too, even though they didn’t make the news as much…

I expect it has, but you are missing the point, an attack on the CC is an attack on the body of Christ as a whole. Why would I not be bothered if it is either the CC or any other church?

1 child abuse is as important as 1,000 others elsewhere.

You don’t take the focus off the CC by trying to put the focus elsewhere. The Devil attacks where he thinks he will do most damage and he loves a division.

When he’s attacking my brothers and sisters in Christ, it’s hurtful.

God bless

 

[Palaeologos]

There is no other faith based institution that can even come close to the size of the Roman Catholic church, therefore you cannot really even use that argument about “institutional effort”.

Oh, yes I can.

When a bishop, or a religious superior, relocates an offender in a remote parish or chapter instead of referring the case to law enforcement, there is an institutional policy of cover-up. I’m willing to accept that the cause is naivete about this particular pathology rather than any desire to shield malefactors from the just consequences of their actions; when I was a kid there were several known kiddy-fiddlers living in my small town, everybody knew who they were and could tell stories about things that had happened, but they were simply avoided and left alone. These days, the cops would be called instantly. So I understand that the way the cases were dealt with is a survival of a policy which was once thought to be correct.

But this ain’t the 1950’s no more! And certainly by now consciousness has been raised enough so that everyone can be expected to know that sex offenders will continue to commit crimes until they are physically stopped from doing so.

Additionally, there is absolutely NO connection between celibacy and pedophilia or other sex abuse. That opinion doesn’t hold water anymore than the argument that sex offenders are homosexuals.

I’m not saying that celibacy ineluctably leads to pedophilia. Not at all.

But there are two issues that must be examined closely, and in neither case will pious ultramontanism be helpful.

First : Pedophiles seek vocations or occupations which bring them into contact with children. Boy Scout leaders. Teachers. Clergy. This correlation is beyond dispute.

Second : Living under vows looks very attractive to people who don’t feel able to control their behavior. An active pedophile is someone who has a compulsion. He is not fully in control of his actions (which doesn’t mean that he’s not fully culpable, of course). Don’t you think that a vow of celibacy might be extremely attractive to a person who feels he can’t control his sexuality? The tragedy is, of course, that you can’t run away from yourself into the ministry–if anything, it throws your problems into bolder relief.

Of course I know better than to suggest that pedophiles are homosexual. They’re not. They’re not heterosexual either; they’re pedophiles. They’re sexually attracted to children.

I’m not suggesting that the solution is to dismantle clerical celibacy. But the Church will obviously have to be more careful about who it’s ordaining, and it will need to revise its methods of dealing with abusive clergy. At the very least, they should be inhibited and investigated, and if there’s sufficient reason, the Church needs to wash its hands of them and turn them over to the secular authorities for trial.

 

[tweetymom]

Well thank you, but do not know how I blessed you?

 

[mark_a]

I guess I feel more comfortable knowing it was the statement of truth that Peter uttered and not the man himself that Jesus built His church on.

But Jesus didn’t give the keys to the kingdom to a statement of truth.

The only infallible authority in the world - GOD’s Word.

The probem with that is the bible doesn’t “say” anything. Written word needs to be interpreted.

Here is another thought. I know not all Catholics believe this but, I know at least a couple that do!!

The Holy Spirit will direct an immoral Pope but not a moral non- catholic Christian?

The Holy Spirit will direct His infallible Earthly teaching office and His flock from being taught error. Will the teacher and pupils fail to apply these teachings to their own lives? You betcha.

 

[mark_a]

I think it is time to do away with the discipline of mandatory celibacy in the Latin Church.

The reason many Catholics lobby for a married priesthood is not the pedophilia scandal, but the lack of vocations.

I’ve read that Orthodox have a lack of voctions to the priesthood too, do you know if this is correct?

 

[Mickey]

The reason many Catholics lobby for a married priesthood is not the pedophilia scandal, but the lack of vocations.

Lack of vocations is one of many problems with a mandatory celibacy discipline.

I’ve read that Orthodox have a lack of voctions to the priesthood too, do you know if this is correct?

I do not have numbers, but I can tell you this. As a Roman Catholic, I saw many Churches shutting down and priests serving two different Churches. As a Ruthenian Catholic it was worse–I am told some of the priests are now serving three different Churches. I have seen no such crisis during my time in the Holy Orthodox Church.

 

[shawn38]

There are more sexual scandal attacks on the Pope today. I was going online when I just found this is the news. "Pope under fire for transfer, letter on sex abuse ". Just wanting to know what some people think about this?

Everyone knows that it has and still does take place. The bigger issue is “the church’s worldwide custom of shielding pedophile priests from the law and public scandal.”

jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=170918

It’s inevitable that all bishops of the day, including Ratzinger, handled abuse complaints against priests in-house, said the Rev. Fergus O’Donoghue, editor of the Irish Jesuit journal Studies.

“The pope was no different to any other bishop at time. The church policy was to keep it all quiet — to help people, but to avoid scandal. Avoiding scandal was a huge issue for the church,” he said. “Of course there was cover-up,” he added. But worse was “the systematic lack of concern for the victims.”

 

[Mickey]

Everyone knows that it has and still does take place. The bigger issue is “the church’s worldwide custom of shielding pedophile priests from the law and public scandal.”

jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=170918

It’s inevitable that all bishops of the day, including Ratzinger, handled abuse complaints against priests in-house, said the Rev. Fergus O’Donoghue, editor of the Irish Jesuit journal Studies.

“The pope was no different to any other bishop at time. The church policy was to keep it all quiet — to help people, but to avoid scandal. Avoiding scandal was a huge issue for the church,” he said. “Of course there was cover-up,” he added. But worse was “the systematic lack of concern for the victims.”

Yes. The cover-ups are a very sad part of these tragedies.

 

[schaick]

Firstly can I say that being a homosexual does not make someone a sexual offender unless s/he acts upon it. God offers a celibacy, supernaturally reinforced, if someone wants to be in the Christian family.

Please know I wasn’t including homosexuals in this - only those that attack other people.

Actually talking about homosexuality on another thread-
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6409345&postcount=105

Secondly I was speaking of the sacrifice that victims must make, not the offenders. For example; to give up any compensation claims against ‘the church’, so that they can heal. None Christians and those making false claims are then exposed. The church then stops getting attacks because the compensation culture is self-feeding, especially where there is no defence, and the church can heal.

God bless

LOL!! OK!

 

[Libertarian_FL]

This is not about pedophilia people its about the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church covering it up and not acting long ago. And in this case a letter tied to the now Pope.

What is sicker and more evil to have the odd pedophile active or the church sitting back and covering it up to save face?

I say the latter.

 

[tweetymom]

This is not about pedophilia people its about the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church covering it up and not acting long ago. And in this case a letter tied to the now Pope.

What is sicker and more evil to have the odd pedophile active or the church sitting back and covering it up to save face?

I say the latter.

They are both sick and evil. If this had been addressed when it happened there would be no scandal’.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Excellent post. I still ythink that the church can maintain rules of celibacy while simultaneously improving the screening process for potential priests. Much of this is already in the works with changes in major seminaries around the world.

Oh, yes I can.

When a bishop, or a religious superior, relocates an offender in a remote parish or chapter instead of referring the case to law enforcement, there is an institutional policy of cover-up. I’m willing to accept that the cause is naivete about this particular pathology rather than any desire to shield malefactors from the just consequences of their actions; when I was a kid there were several known kiddy-fiddlers living in my small town, everybody knew who they were and could tell stories about things that had happened, but they were simply avoided and left alone. These days, the cops would be called instantly. So I understand that the way the cases were dealt with is a survival of a policy which was once thought to be correct.

But this ain’t the 1950’s no more! And certainly by now consciousness has been raised enough so that everyone can be expected to know that sex offenders will continue to commit crimes until they are physically stopped from doing so.

I’m not saying that celibacy ineluctably leads to pedophilia. Not at all.

But there are two issues that must be examined closely, and in neither case will pious ultramontanism be helpful.

First : Pedophiles seek vocations or occupations which bring them into contact with children. Boy Scout leaders. Teachers. Clergy. This correlation is beyond dispute.

Second : Living under vows looks very attractive to people who don’t feel able to control their behavior. An active pedophile is someone who has a compulsion. He is not fully in control of his actions (which doesn’t mean that he’s not fully culpable, of course). Don’t you think that a vow of celibacy might be extremely attractive to a person who feels he can’t control his sexuality? The tragedy is, of course, that you can’t run away from yourself into the ministry–if anything, it throws your problems into bolder relief.

Of course I know better than to suggest that pedophiles are homosexual. They’re not. They’re not heterosexual either; they’re pedophiles. They’re sexually attracted to children.

I’m not suggesting that the solution is to dismantle clerical celibacy. But the Church will obviously have to be more careful about who it’s ordaining, and it will need to revise its methods of dealing with abusive clergy. At the very least, they should be inhibited and investigated, and if there’s sufficient reason, the Church needs to wash its hands of them and turn them over to the secular authorities for trial.

 

[schaick]

But Jesus didn’t give the keys to the kingdom to a statement of truth.

The probem with that is the bible doesn’t “say” anything. Written word needs to be interpreted.
The Holy Spirit will direct His infallible Earthly teaching office and His flock from being taught error. Will the teacher and pupils fail to apply these teachings to their own lives? You betcha.

Sorry I am confusing you.

The foundation of Jesus’ Church is the TRUTH of the statement. At that point in time human bodies were needed to spread the message.

At Pentacost Paul and the Disciples unlocked the Kingdom of Heaven to all by spreading the Word-TRUTH. The Apostles recorded the TRUTH in Scripture thereby unlocking the Kingdom for all of us.

What do you think? Does someone that is immoral have access to the Holy Spirit?

Galatians 5
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

***I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. ***

This is a person with the Holy Spirit

Galatians 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

Matthew 7
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 

[Lapell]

Are you sure you understood me? My logic doesn’t lower Jesus to the status of you and me. Jesus can do whatever He wants to do within His nature. I’m not sure you or I really understand what Jesus was doing with the keys and the authority and Peter. But that’s another story. Right now we’re dealing with a position (pope) that, IMO, is dangerous for someone to hold and dangerous for people to follow. Dangerous because power (authority) in the hands of humans corrupts, absolute power (authority) has the potential to corrupt absolutely.

That seems to leave aside a few important facts.
For example:- that the pope doesn’t write his encyclicals alone. It’s really the pope and the collegium of bishops united to him;
- that the line of (legitimate) successors of Simon Peter has been continuous. (The time when there were allegedly 3 popes at the same time was a time of singular crisis which was solved.)
- that the Magisterium of the Church has been consistent in what they have taught. So-called new dogmae were rather defined dogmae which were held even before. For instance there existed the devotion to our Lady of the Assumption many centuries before the dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was defined under Pius XII in 1950!