News Story Today about the Pope

[Lapell]

Please know I wasn’t including homosexuals in this - only those that attack other people.

Actually talking about homosexuality on another thread-
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6409345&postcount=105

LOL!! OK!

Yes, homosexuality is a matter usually unrelated to pedophilia. Which doesn’t keep homosexuality from being condemned by God in Lev. 18, 22: “You won’t sleep with a man like one sleeps with a woman. It’s an abomination in God’s eyes”.(Adressed to men. To women, it’s sleeping with a woman like with a man.)

 

[Lapell]

This is not about pedophilia people its about the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church covering it up and not acting long ago. And in this case a letter tied to the now Pope.

What is sicker and more evil to have the odd pedophile active or the church sitting back and covering it up to save face?

I say the latter.

Given how the pope adresses the issue of sexual scandals involving the priests, I would tend to believe the news saying he was not involved in a guilty way and would give him the benefit of the doubt. The secular press for the past years have been quite eager to tie the pope with any controversial matter so as to make him look very bad. Sounds anti-popish just as many false accusations against the Jewish people are called antisemitic! Would our Protestant brothers wish that our society would do away with any visible sign of our Lord’s presence in our world? The pope happens to be one.

 

[mark_a]

The foundation of Jesus’ Church is the TRUTH of the statement. At that point in time human bodies were needed to spread the message.

Are bodies no longer needed?

At Pentacost Paul and the Disciples unlocked the Kingdom of Heaven to all by spreading the Word-TRUTH. The Apostles recorded the TRUTH in Scripture thereby unlocking the Kingdom for all of us.

Can you show me in the bible where the Apostles necessarily knew they were writing Sacred Scripture?

What do you think? Does someone that is immoral have access to the Holy Spirit?

Immoral acts are forgiven by God every second of every day.
**

Galatians 5

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Would repenting Galations inherit the Kingdom of God? ******

 

[Greenbrier]

The vast majority of clerical sexual abuse cases are homosexual in nature and are not even pedophilia proper since in most cases they are the predation by priests upon sexually mature adolescent boys.

That said, it needs to be remembered that in the heyday of this sort of thing it was still believed that these men could be cured. We should all know better now.

 

[Palaeologos]

The vast majority of clerical sexual abuse cases are homosexual in nature and are not even pedophilia proper since in most cases they are the predation by priests upon sexually mature adolescent boys.

That said, it needs to be remembered that in the heyday of this sort of thing it was still believed that these men could be cured. We should all know better now.

Hebephilia and ephebophilia are both arguably paraphilias, like pedophilia. There are psychologists who are arguing for their inclusion in the DSM-V.

But you are correct that hebephilia & ephebophilia tend to have more sharply marked preferences for one sex or another. I don’t know that the molesters really qualify as homosexuals tout court, though. Most heterosexual men think teenage girls are sexually attractive, but most of them are restricted by simple decency from doing anything about it. The same is true of most homosexual men and teenage boys.

In 1957, Fr Gerald Fitzgerald (a priest who specialized in the treatment of mentally ill clergy) wrote, of sexual predators :

*‘From our long experience with characters of this type, and without passing judgment on the individual, most of these men would be clinically classified as schizophrenic. Their repentance and amendment is superficial and, if not formally at least sub-consciously, is motivated by desire to be again in a position where they can continue their wonted activity. A new diocese means only green pastures.” *

Fifty years ago! And nobody listened to him then; pray God they’ll listen now.

 

[Lapell]

Many people simply don’t want to examine the various aspects of the matter. It’s not as simple as it may seem sometimes. It’s quite easy to “simplistify” the whole thing, that is, to make it sound simple when in doing so we’re being quite simplistic.

“Cover-up” seems to imply seeking to leave righteousness aside. How are you so sure? In saying this , I am not seeking that the whole be not uncovered, but really, who is interested in the WHOLE truth among those who are after the pope to find him at fault? Any room in their view for attenuing circumstances, if there proves to be a fault that seems quite serious? Even among Catholics (or is it nominal Catholics) there seems to be a tendancy to condemn the people on what appears to be a wrong thing, without double checking whether it really was completely wrong or not.

 

[Lapell]

That said, it needs to be remembered that in the heyday of this sort of thing it was still believed that these men could be cured. We should all know better now.

Very good point.

 

[Lapell]

Another point to consider is that there are priests who became priests for reasons other than having clearly received a call from God. To please their parents, for instance.

 

[nsper7]

Another point to consider is that there are priests who became priests for reasons other than having clearly received a call from God. To please their parents, for instance.

But that doesn’t explain pedophilia and stuff. I mean, you could understand such a Priest falling and have an illicit thing with a women (maybe even a young woman–16 or 17 or something), but a young boy?

 

[KathleenGee]

There are men who were ordained who should not have been.

We were told many years ago that some day Satan would enter into the Catholic Church…and Pope Paul VI alluded to it about the smoke of Satan entering the sanctuary.

Part of the entrance is by bringing science, and excluding the Holy Spirit.

95% of American clergy are good.

What is not good is how the secular world is getting away with tremendous abuse, far greater than any church institution.

 

[tweetymom]

There are men who were ordained who should not have been.

We were told many years ago that some day Satan would enter into the Catholic Church…and Pope Paul VI alluded to it about the smoke of Satan entering the sanctuary.

Part of the entrance is by bringing science, and excluding the Holy Spirit.

95% of American clergy are good.

What is not good is how the secular world is getting away with tremendous abuse, far greater than any church institution.

But the Church is supposed to be a picture of Jesus.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Correct, and nobody expects the secular world to be holy. One would hope at bare minimum that we could trust our innocents and our young people to be in the company of clergy without the Michael Jackson effect. It’s unacceptable. And it’s disgusting how higher-ups have swept it under the carpet. And it’s obscene how many of us here try to minimize it or just compare it to other denominations. When I was a kid and I cussed and my dad caught me, I would say, “yeah, well Matt and Steve and Rich cuss too!” My dad’s reply, “I don’t give a dang about Matt, Steve and Rich. Their parents can deal with them. You clean up your mouth!” I feel the same way about the Church. I don’t care if Lutherans, Presbyterians,and Baptists do it too or more or less or whatever. We shouldn’t do it AT ALL. And if it’s known, hang 'em.

But the Church is supposed to be a picture of Jesus.

 

[tweetymom]

Correct, and nobody expects the secular world to be holy. One would hope at bare minimum that we could trust our innocents and our young people to be in the company of clergy without the Michael Jackson effect. It’s unacceptable. And it’s disgusting how higher-ups have swept it under the carpet. And it’s obscene how many of us here try to minimize it or just compare it to other denominations. When I was a kid and I cussed and my dad caught me, I would say, “yeah, well Matt and Steve and Rich cuss too!” My dad’s reply, “I don’t give a dang about Matt, Steve and Rich. Their parents can deal with them. You clean up your mouth!” I feel the same way about the Church. I don’t care if Lutherans, Presbyterians,and Baptists do it too or more or less or whatever. We shouldn’t do it AT ALL. And if it’s known, hang 'em.

Right on. God Bless

 

[humble_maid]

Correct, and nobody expects the secular world to be holy. One would hope at bare minimum that we could trust our innocents and our young people to be in the company of clergy without the Michael Jackson effect. It’s unacceptable. And it’s disgusting how higher-ups have swept it under the carpet. And it’s obscene how many of us here try to minimize it or just compare it to other denominations. When I was a kid and I cussed and my dad caught me, I would say, “yeah, well Matt and Steve and Rich cuss too!” My dad’s reply, “I don’t give a dang about Matt, Steve and Rich. Their parents can deal with them. You clean up your mouth!” I feel the same way about the Church. I don’t care if Lutherans, Presbyterians,and Baptists do it too or more or less or whatever. We shouldn’t do it AT ALL. And if it’s known, hang 'em.

I agree with you but you have to understand that an accusation is just that, an accusation, though this is enough to cause alarm within the community. Those accused of abuse should be set to confinement of some sort till the situation is solved. In this case, it took six years to convict the priest. Firstly, why did it take so long, and should this person have been barred from the priesthood based on accusations or should he have been on watch 24 hours until he is either proven guilty or innocent.

I was once told by a dissident catholic that he lost his faith because his local priest was abusive and everyone in the village knew it. My question to him was if the locals knew why didn’t anyone report it or even approach the “priest” and demand an explanation or his resignation(if they had positive proof)? To this the man could not answer. I told them that all were to blame for being silent and allowing this to happen. To this he could not answer as well.

We are all to blame. We gave to much trust to these “priests”. We would never question their authority. I say this not because I don’t respect the authority of the priesthood but because they are of flesh and blood, like the most of us. Yet there are many of those who’s calling is true and are blessed by God.

When innocent lives are involved, we, the community, must always be vigilant in all matters of life whether it is leaving your child to be watched by your neighbor, leaving them in the care of educators, etc…

Instead of deflecting accusations or pointing fingers elsewhere, we as members of the Body of Christ should pray to protect innocent lives and the Church from such evil actions.

God Bless.

 

[Lapell]

There are men who were ordained who should not have been.

We were told many years ago that some day Satan would enter into the Catholic Church…and Pope Paul VI alluded to it about the smoke of Satan entering the sanctuary.

Part of the entrance is by bringing science, and excluding the Holy Spirit.

95% of American clergy are good.

What is not good is how the secular world is getting away with tremendous abuse, far greater than any church institution.

Don’t throw stones at authentic science! It would confirm the truth rather than go against it. What you just said here is rather about phoney science or the “half-baked” kind, but authentic science does exist and is worth being backed by all of us here!
But yes, so-called science of an un-authentic kind, and the fact that so many people apparently fall for it without even taking the time to try to discern properly, this has caused a lot of damage in our world.

 

[Lapell]

Correct, and nobody expects the secular world to be holy.

??? I beg your pardon? The Jews would tell you that the non-Jews are all bound by the Covenant that God did with Noah. That INCLUDES the secular world rather than it would exclude it. That the secular would not feel bound is rather a symptom that they don’t want anything to do with the One True God. It’s their choice and they will have to answer for it some day, whether they like it or not. Isn’t this true?

 

[Lapell]

(…) nobody expects the secular world to be holy.

Except God and His prophets!

 

[BrianH]

I commented a long time ago on this thread. Suffice to say, I suspect the Vatican administration and local administrators will respond better than they have the past. I also imagine that the screening process has improved as well.
There also has to be parent responsibility increasing as well. Under no circumstances, should an adult be left with your child alone or unsupervised without windows and so forth open and visible for every to see. Simple precautions.

 

[Mickey]

I commented a long time ago on this thread. Suffice to say, I suspect the Vatican administration and local administrators will respond better than they have the past. I also imagine that the screening process has improved as well.
There also has to be parent responsibility increasing as well. Under no circumstances, should an adult be left with your child alone or unsupervised without windows and so forth open and visible for every to see. Simple precautions.

Indeed.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You are not understanding my point. I’m simply saying that the secular world is so sinful, so out of whack, so entrenched in a pansexual, morally vague, politically-correct, heavily-sexualized haze that we the people are usually cynical about them being moral or responsible. As a voter, I’m at the point where, Democrat or Republican, I don’t trust any of these folks. I have a Shakespearean “kill all the lawyers” mentality. The way the U.S. government is full of greed, power-mongering, corruption, smoke filled rooms, phoniness and false fronts, do you seriously think any of us really expect them to fullfill what they promise morally or ethically anymore? We have low expectations after all we see. We keep hoping and hoping for moral leadership and government but we come up empty decade after decade and things are only getting worse. Do I demand and want morality from my secular government? Duh! Will I get it? I’m a realist, probably not.

But when it comes to the Catholic Church, that’s different. I know they’re human, but I expect THE BEST. I expect pedophiles to NOT be transferred, swept under the rug. I expect popes, archbishops, bishops, and priests to have a zero tolerance for this diabolical activity. You should as well. I don’t put a Republican or Democratic senator in the same category as a shepherd of Christ. I expect my bishops to fight for children. I also don’t like my Church paying zillions of $$$ to pay off victims of molestation and hush money.

And why do we get outraged when a senator or congressman cheats on his wife with a reporter from Argentina, or when a congressman is having gay affairs or a governor cheats on his wife and yet we instantly kick in apologetics mode and defend any bishop who knowingly transferred child predators and say, “they’re only human?” Why the swift condemnation of one and not the other if we see them as equal?

I think the secular world lives by secular rules. So we can expect secular morality. It is naive and silly to expect secular leaders, many of whom are not Christian or Jewish, to live by Judeo-Christian morality. It’s naive. But to expect Catholics to act like Catholics in the Catholic Church, perfectly reasonable.

Except God and His prophets!