NFP and people getting state aid

[Corki]

A blood test would prove it. And I have no problem with the poor or Catholics. I AM Catholic. But people cannot have 8 or more children and expect others to pay to raise them. It is immoral to do so.

Question to all of you rambling on about eugenics: would you have a problem being forced to pay for a Mormon man to support his multiple wives and children, or would you tell him that if he wants to live that sort of lifestyle with 5 wives and dozens of children, that he should seek help from those of his own faith, namely, over Mormons, and not the government?

If I didn’t have to pay 33% income tax, I wouldn’t be going further into debt every month trying to care for my OWN family. I would be able to help those relatives of mine who struggle and work very hard to support themselves. Instead, I am relegated to paying for complete strangers to have child after child while I, who ask nothing from anyone, continue to struggle month to month.

Blood tests would only show that someone may have taken a chemical contraceptive. Most forms of birth control won’t show up on a blood test. Or are you limiting your state aid only to those individuals who are willing to permanently screw up thier fertility with artificial hormones?

State aid doesn’t generally extend to illegal wives so your Mormon example is irrelevant. On the other hand, there are lots of single guys with multiple “families” none of which is headed by women he married. That should be a much bigger concern than intact families, who have fallen on hard times and who have more kids than you personally approve of.

 

[joclucsylv]

Can she show me that in the bible

Don’t you think it is a sin to abuse the system?? Knowingly having more children than one can aFford is abuse.

My question is this: Of those receiving public assistance, what is the nfp baby / welfare baby ratio?

I know of at least 20 families who don’t beilieve in birthcontrol on the programs I work with I know this because we ask our clients what they are using for birthcontrol… Our caseload is about 2000 families served per month in the area I work.

 

[Calliso]

The use of medicaid, WIC, and foodstamps is often generational. I am seeing proof of this where I work. I am sorry but it is disheartening for me to see these people come in for free handouts. Once they are pregnant the 3rd and 4th time, I can’t help but think that it is time to stop.

Yep really I have no problem with people having as many kids as they want. As long as I am not paying for those kids! Really if you can;t support more kids stop having them!

 

[joclucsylv]

Yep really I have no problem with people having as many kids as they want. As long as I am not paying for those kids! Really if you can;t support more kids stop having them!

AMEN!!! It is so discouraging to the hard working family like my husband and I. We pay 140 dollars per week to insure our family and we are still stuck with copays and deductibles. I am still paying a monthly payment to the hospital for the birth of my last child and here come waltzing in people who get it all for FREE!!! The birth of their children 100 percent free! Formula, food, heating assistance, headstart, free lunch once children go to school. The freebies do not end!! How is that fair to hard working middle America struggling to make it??? It’s not fair and I believe sinful to produce children supported by working America’s tax dollars.

 

[LaSainte]

Blood tests would only show that someone may have taken a chemical contraceptive. Most forms of birth control won’t show up on a blood test. Or are you limiting your state aid only to those individuals who are willing to permanently screw up thier fertility with artificial hormones?

State aid doesn’t generally extend to illegal wives so your Mormon example is irrelevant. On the other hand, there are lots of single guys with multiple “families” none of which is headed by women he married. That should be a much bigger concern than intact families, who have fallen on hard times and who have more kids than you personally approve of.

Chemical contraception does not permanently screw up fertility. I am a prime example. Besides, does a person with 5 kids on welfare really NEED more children anyway? Like I said, they can always decline to go on welfare. Nobody is forcing them.

Also, as far as polygamy goes, it doesn’t matter if it’s legal or not. People still do it and I’m sure some of those families are on welfare, being paid for by the American taxpayer. Do you think that just because those marriages aren’t legally recognized that we aren’t paying for their lfestyle when each wife has 6 kids “out of wedlock”? Let the Mormon churchtake care of them, and if catholics want to have 8 kids they can’t afford, let the catholic church take care of them too.

 

[LaSainte]

AMEN!!! It is so discouraging to the hard working family like my husband and I. We pay 140 dollars per week to insure our family and we are still stuck with copays and deductibles. I am still paying a monthly payment to the hospital for the birth of my last child and here come waltzing in people who get it all for FREE!!! The birth of their children 100 percent free! Formula, food, heating assistance, headstart, free lunch once children go to school. The freebies do not end!! How is that fair to hard working middle America struggling to make it??? It’s not fair and I believe sinful to produce children supported by working America’s tax dollars.

YES!!!

 

[1ke]

How is that fair

Ah, we are at the root of it. “Fair”. Show me the “fairness” beatitude in the Gospel.

 

[valentino]

YES!!!

A big part of the problem is that people come to rely on handouts.This government has been in the welfare business so long they have a hard time getting out.Over 25% of our jobs are in government now.its unbelieveable.And the democrats want it to get bigger.I truelly believe Obama wouldn’t care if it was 50%.

 

[joclucsylv]

Ah, we are at the root of it. “Fair”. Show me the “fairness” beatitude in the Gospel.

1ke I have a heart for the poor. I do. My heart goes out to these children on the programs who don’t have a chance in life and who will more than likely end up on government aid.

The beatitudes don’t say…Blessed are the poor who receive state aid but can still afford to pay for smart phones, cable, and internet. 95 percent of them have the luxuries of working America.

 

[joclucsylv]

1ke, I need to add that I come from poverty. My Catholic dad was a poor farmer who truly relied on the providence of God and not the state. Looking back, I know there were many tomes he could have gotten aid, but never once stooped to that level. He raised us to become good Catholics and to get an education, and to have as he would say…a head on our shoulders so that we make good decisions… I have respect for him.

 

[maryjk]

I know of at least 20 families **who don’t beilieve in birthcontrol **on the programs I work with I know this because we ask our clients what they are using for birthcontrol… Our caseload is about 2000 families served per month in the area I work.

Not believing in birth control does not make them Catholic, nor does it indicate that they are using NFP. It very well could be an answer designed to annoy. And it did.

 

[joclucsylv]

Not believing in birth control does not make them Catholic, nor does it indicate that they are using NFP. It very well could be an answer designed to annoy. And it did.

They are CATHOLIC!!! I know who the big Catholic families are in my community in my church. I live in a Catholic area where everyone knows eachothers religions. It was not an answer meant to annoy. It’s fact.

 

[maryjk]

Yes,** I know of a few big Catholic families who get medicaid, wic, foodstamps.** I work for an agency that deals with direct service for these families.

I know of at least 20 families who don’t beilieve in birthcontrol on the programs I work with I know this because we ask our clients what they are using for birthcontrol… Our caseload is about 2000 families served per month in the area I work.

They are CATHOLIC!!! **I know who the big Catholic families are in my community in my church. ** I live in a Catholic area where everyone knows eachothers religions. It was not an answer meant to annoy. It’s fact.

So my question is: is it a few or 20? Is every big family you know, that gets Medicaid, that doesn’t believe in ABC or NFP , Catholic? Really?

Because that seems weird.

It seems that some of the larger families would be single mothers or mothers of children where the father has died or something.

 

[joclucsylv]

So my question is: is it a few or 20? Is every big family you know, that gets Medicaid, that doesn’t believe in ABC or NFP , Catholic? Really?

Because that seems weird.

It seems that some of the larger families would be single mothers or mothers of children where the father has died or something.

Of the 2000 families we serve, there are approx 20 families that are Catholic that get Medicaid and other services They don’t use ABC. So…if they don’t use ABC and come in pregnant for the 8th time it is assumable that they use NFP. If you read my previous posts that is a question asked on our forms. Why does it seem weird to you. I am not a liar my friend. Work in the system for a year and you will be scratching your head as well.
By your quote at the end of your posts, you don’t believe in socialism. I am wondering why are you supporting what these people do. You seem to have a hard time believing that a good Catholic family would use these services it seems. They do use them…and rely on our tax dollars to support them.

I am a devout Catholic. I have a passion for the truth. However, I can’t stomach people using the system. By the time any client comes in pregnant for their 3rd child I scratch my head and wonder.

 

[joclucsylv]

So my question is: is it a few or 20? Is every big family you know, that gets Medicaid, that doesn’t believe in ABC or NFP , Catholic? Really?

Because that seems weird.

It seems that some of the larger families would be single mothers or mothers of children where the father has died or something.

I just read your last sentence. We serve many traditional families…Catholic or not of course. Some may have one child, some 2 or more. They fit into the income guidelines to receive services. It’s not just the single mother with 3 kids from 3 different fathers that we serve. We also serve the the normal family.

You would have to work in the system to see what goes on!

 

[Sullibe]

A blood test would prove it. And I have no problem with the poor or Catholics. I AM Catholic.But people cannot have 8 or more children and expect others to pay to raise them. It is immoral to do so.
In a world that values money over people, perhaps. But we all have a communal responsibility to raise children, whether that’s financially or otherwise.

If I didn’t have to pay 33% income tax, I wouldn’t be going further into debt every month trying to care for my OWN family. I would be able to help those relatives of mine who struggle and work very hard to support themselves. Instead, I am relegated to paying for complete strangers to have child after child while I, who ask nothing from anyone, continue to struggle month to month.

And if you had more children, you would lower your taxes.

 

[LaSainte]

And if you had more children, you would lower your taxes.

A communal responsibiliy to raise other people’s children? Sorry, but that is NOT forhe government to say, but for the Church, to which these people are free to appeal for help.

Lower my taxes by having more kids? Why didn’t I think of that? Hey, I could have a dozen and get all kinds of freebies like welfare, food stamps, school breakfast and lunch, healthcare, etc. Nevermind the people struggling to support heir own families who have to foot the bill for it all. You’re really turning me around on this whole thing. A free ride! Woohoo!

 

[valentino]

So…in conversation with a fellow Catholic who is pro contraception, she says that God doesn’t want us to have 10 children and then rely on the state for health insurance, WIC, and such. I have to say that I see this day after day in my job and it is frustrating. So my question is the following. Are you all ok with a Catholic NFP couple being open to more children when they already have several children supported by state aid?

yes,i agree He doesn’t.He wants us to be able to feed our family and provide for their health.If a married couple is doing all that the can to provide for their family and by accident using NFP they have another what you suggest?Ideally Church members would be aware of their situation and chip in to help them.But our society is so far from ideal that I guess their only alternative is to take the aid that the state gives them.

 

[joclucsylv]

A communal responsibiliy to raise other people’s children? Sorry, but that is NOT forhe government to say, but for the Church, to which these people are free to appeal for help.

Lower my taxes by having more kids? Why didn’t I think of that? Hey, I could have a dozen and get all kinds of freebies like welfare, food stamps, school breakfast and lunch, healthcare, etc. Nevermind the people struggling to support heir own families who have to foot the bill for it all. You’re really turning me around on this whole thing. A free ride! Woohoo!

I personally know of s girl who wants to get pregnant again because her last child will be to old to be on the program and the family will be losing their benefit. I want to slap her. This is the same girl who was offered a job but refused it after she figured out the numbers and saw that she and her husband are finacially better off receiving benefits.

 

[Corki]

Of the 2000 families we serve, there are approx 20 families that are Catholic that get Medicaid and other services They don’t use ABC. So…if they don’t use ABC and come in pregnant for the 8th time it is assumable that they use NFP.

Why would you assume they are using NFP? Wouldn’t it be more logical to assume that they are not trying to delay or space children at all?

(BTW, how do you know they aren’t using ABC anyway? Do you ask them? Is that a legal inquiry?)