NFP and people getting state aid

[Sullibe]

Funny how so many here are outraged by the idea that we don’t want to be forced to pay for someone else’s irresponsibility, and yet are absolutely outraged at federal funding for abortions, which is also forcing us to pay for someone’s irresponsibiliy. When it suits your own moral standards (such as large families using NFP) you’re all for it, but then when it goes against your moral sensibilities (abortion, which to many is a moral choice) you go berserk.

You know what. I don’t think you’re less than charitable attitude is warranted. Generosity is a virtue. So is Love - The willingness to work for the good of another, whether you feel like it or not!

If I didn’t have to pay 33% income tax, I wouldn’t be going further into debt every month trying to care for my OWN family. I would be able to help those relatives of mine who struggle and work very hard to support themselves., who ask nothing from anyone, <continue to struggle month to month.

I know what the income guidelines are for that tax bracket.

You know what my family could do being in that tax-bracket. Quite a lot. Especially since the average income of that bracket is 4X what we make. And there will be 5 children in our family come Sept.

Irresponsibility is not necessarily limited to sexual activity.

 

[Corki]

And there will be 5 children in our family come Sept.

Congratulations!

 

[LaSainte]

Funny as in amusing or funny as in puzzling? Did you notice the name of the site? CATHOLIC Answers? It should be expected that the posters here, for the most part, are going to be outraged at immoral acts such as abortion and not particularly upset at all about moral acts such as using NFP or welcomig children.

The point is that it is a double standard. If YOU want to legislate morality as you see fit then you should not be surprised or outraged when others do the same. The best alternative is to take government out of it and leave it to the churches and charities to support these projects and hese people. I would LOVE to be able to give more to the church and Caholic charities, but I’m too busy paying for people to be on welfare and for teenagers to have abortions without telling their parents and for people who smoke pot to be incarcerated for years on end.

 

[LaSainte]

You know what. I don’t think you’re less than charitable attitude is warranted. Generosity is a virtue. So is Love - The willingness to work for the good of another, whether you feel like it or not!

I know what the income guidelines are for that tax bracket.

You know what my family could do being in that tax-bracket. Quite a lot. Especially since the average income of that bracket is 4X what we make. And there will be 5 children in our family come Sept.

Irresponsibility is not necessarily limited to sexual activity.

Well then maybe you can give me some tips, because we live in a modest house, own a single working car that is 6 years old and buy the kids’ clothes at the resale shop, WalMart and sometimes Target. I almost never buy clothes for myself (I am 7 months pregnant and have spent a grand total of $35.00 on maternity clothes, also from he resale shop), I do buy organic food when I can because I don’t want my kids eating poison - I guess you might call that a “luxury”. My husband and I do have cell phones but no house phone and we don’t have any movie channels or anything like that on television. I switch electric companies each month to get the best rates. My husband does all the yard work and when something breaks, he is the one to fix it. All this and we still go more into debt every month despite our best efforts. So pardon me if I don’t want to have a gun to my head to be forced to pay for people who have a half-dozen kids and want me to foot the bill.

 

[LaSainte]

You know what. I don’t think you’re less than charitable attitude is warranted. Generosity is a virtue. So is Love - The willingness to work for the good of another, whether you feel like it or not!

I know what the income guidelines are for that tax bracket.

You know what my family could do being in that tax-bracket. Quite a lot. Especially since the average income of that bracket is 4X what we make. And there will be 5 children in our family come Sept.

Irresponsibility is not necessarily limited to sexual activity.

And I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that your family does NOT make $20,000 a year, because THAT would be 4X less than we make. Sheesh.

 

[MrsStephanieH]

Wow I don’t even know where to start…

My parents raised 5 children. We were broke growing up, and my parents worked hard. I have never met a more hard working man than my father. He owns his own plumbing and electrical business, and when we were kids my parents struggled. My mom had to go door to door asking people to pay the bills that they owned to us, and she worked 3 jobs. My parents were also on public assistance…and birth control. I got free lunches. And my parents loved us all even though we weren’t all planned. In fact, only my oldest sister was planned. It pains me that you would rather my parents have never had me than have helped them out when they needed it. Not all people who are getting assistance are lazy, and not all the children in those families end up on welfare. I am not on welfare. I am a college graduate. Besides medical bills and student loans DH and I are not going into debt.

Also, it’s not the children’s fault if their parents are abusing the system. You shouldn’t deny those kids things like food or an education. The Head Start program is so important, and preschool is so expensive!

One more thing…I recently discovered that my health insurance through work will not cover my labor and delivery if I were to become pregnant and in my state any woman that is pregnant and insurance doesn’t cover it, they are given insurance to cover the pregnancy. What about people like me who work hard everyday and my insurance doesn’t cover my pregnancy? Should I never share a marital union with my husband? (We use NFP)

 

[joclucsylv]

That was me. I must say I am shocked that you are allowed to ask this question. It seems to be a clear HIPPA violation. I certainly wouldn’t answer such a personal and irrelevant question. What happens if someone refuses to answer?

It’s not a HIPPA violation. Aren’t you asked that same question on your questionaire at the gynocologist? HIPPA has to do with information released from one oFfice to another and not from what is asked from the patient/client. Absolutely you can refuse to answer. I have never run into the situation where it insulted a woman enough where they refused to answer. Our program is federally funded, so the questions are the same around the nation.

 

[joclucsylv]

Wow I don’t even know where to start…

My parents raised 5 children. We were broke growing up, and my parents worked hard. I have never met a more hard working man than my father. He owns his own plumbing and electrical business, and when we were kids my parents struggled. My mom had to go door to door asking people to pay the bills that they owned to us, and she worked 3 jobs. My parents were also on public assistance…and birth control. I got free lunches. And my parents loved us all even though we weren’t all planned. In fact, only my oldest sister was planned. It pains me that you would rather my parents have never had me than have helped them out when they needed it. Not all people who are getting assistance are lazy, and not all the children in those families end up on welfare. I am not on welfare. I am a college graduate. Besides medical bills and student loans DH and I are not going into debt.

I too was raised in poverty. My parents used the rythym as it was called back then and mom had 4 live births. They never relied on pubic assistance though. Somehow, someway they raised us. If there was no food in the fridge, we had potatoes to eat as that is what dad farmed. He truly relied on God to provide, not the state. He had his fields blessed by a priest every year! What they did doesn’t make them better people. It was just them living an honest responsible life.

Also, it’s not the children’s fault if their parents are abusing the system. You shouldn’t deny those kids things like food or an education. The Head Start program is so important, and preschool is so expensive!
No Stephanie, it’s not the children’s fault. I see so much neglect, and my anger is directed towards the parents. The Headstart program is AMAZING, and I truly believe that that is the program that gives children direction when there is none at home.

One more thing…I recently discovered that my health insurance through work will not cover my labor and delivery if I were to become pregnant and in my state any woman that is pregnant and insurance doesn’t cover it, they are given insurance to cover the pregnancy. What about people like me who work hard everyday and my insurance doesn’t cover my pregnancy? Should I never share a marital union with my husband? (We use NFP)

Stephanie, state aid is income based including medicaid which is what would pay for birth. If your income is over state guidelines than you wouldn’t qualify. I highly doubt that a the state would cover the birth of a family making 100K per year even if insurance doesn’t cover the birth of a child .Also, I am still making monthly payments to the hospital where my last child was born because my insurance didn’t cover it all. Would you have a problem financing a car? If you and your husband can afford the monthly payment, the right thing to do would be to pay for the birth yourself instead of having the state. Perhaps I will get blasted for that statement, but that is the honest responsible thing to do. Peace Stephanie!

 

[joclucsylv]

I am still learning how to quote in CAF and answered to some of Stephanie’s comments in her quote. Doesn’t help that I am doing this on my phone!

 

[Corki]

It’s not a HIPPA violation. Aren’t you asked that same question on your questionaire at the gynocologist? HIPPA has to do with information released from one oFfice to another and not from what is asked from the patient/client. Absolutely you can refuse to answer. I have never run into the situation where it insulted a woman enough where they refused to answer. Our program is federally funded, so the questions are the same around the nation.

You can’t compare a health related question being asked at a health care providers office to the same question being asked by an aid worker. The only reason it’s legal for the gyn. office to ask is that it is directly related to my medical care. For an aid worker to ask that is not even **remotely **related to my medical care.

(FWIW, it’s not even on the questionaire at the doctor’s office. It is something discussed during the exam/visit)

HIPPA goes far beyond what it shared between offices. It includes the use of the information as well as the sharing of it. If you have no medical need for the information and you keep a record of it, HIPPA applies.

Frankly, I have quite disturbed that an organization working to provide financial aid to the poor would be making inquiries into their clients’ sex lives. That’s perverse.

 

[Corki]

And I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that your family does NOT make $20,000 a year, because THAT would be 4X less than we make. Sheesh.

Well, I’ll go out on the opposite limb then and “guess” that you aren’t paying anywhere near 33% of your income in taxes then.

 

[Mamanurse]

Stephanie, state aid is income based including medicaid which is what would pay for birth. If your income is over state guidelines than you wouldn’t qualify. I highly doubt that a the state would cover the birth of a family making 100K per year even if insurance doesn’t cover the birth of a child .Also, I am still making monthly payments to the hospital where my last child was born because my insurance didn’t cover it all. Would you have a problem financing a car? If you and your husband can afford the monthly payment, the right thing to do would be to pay for the birth yourself instead of having the state. Perhaps I will get blasted for that statement, but that is the honest responsible thing to do. Peace Stephanie!

I agree 100%! My sister, owns her own design landscaping business with her husband. They have 4 young children and provide their own insurance. Her ins co doesn’t cover the birth or delivery either, she paid out of pocket.
I don’t understand why people continue to believe the health insurance is a right! Yes, proper health care is a right, but I don’t feel that everyone needs to have cadillac coverage they seem to think they deserve, especially when they aren’t paying for it. geesh

 

[Mamanurse]

Children are not a “gift”. They are not given to us freely through no action of our own. They are a result of sex. It is a biological imperative. The only person I know who was given a child as a “gift” was the Virgin Mary. The rest octhem, God allows to be created through our own actions. They don’t just fall out of the sky. People who refer to them strictly as “gifts” and “blessings” are missing a very big point here, and that is that God requires our “permission” to make them. No sex, no babies. These people need to keep their pants on.

You obviously do not have children then. We were blessed with our first child 5 yrs ago. Since then, I have had two miscarriages, one of them being an ectopic pregnancy and the baby couldn’t survive. I am BLESSED to be pregnant once again, my baby is due November. We consider this child to be a a true GIFT from God.

 

[joclucsylv]

You can’t compare a health related question being asked at a health care providers office to the same question being asked by an aid worker. The only reason it’s legal for the gyn. office to ask is that it is directly related to my medical care. For an aid worker to ask that is not even **remotely **related to my medical care.

(FWIW, it’s not even on the questionaire at the doctor’s office. It is something discussed during the exam/visit)

HIPPA goes far beyond what it shared between offices. It includes the use of the information as well as the sharing of it. If you have no medical need for the information and you keep a record of it, HIPPA applies.

Frankly, I have quite disturbed that an organization working to provide financial aid to the poor would be making inquiries into their clients’ sex lives. That’s perverse.

Corki, relax my friend. We are health related. Many programs that help the poor are health related$ All our questions are related to health.

 

[Sullibe]

And I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that your family does NOT make $20,000 a year, because THAT would be 4X less than we make. Sheesh.

Then you’re NOT in the 33% tax bracket.

From Wikipedia

33% Tax bracket for tax year 2009:

Single: $171,551 – $372,950
Married filing jointly: $208,851 – $372,950
Married filing separately: $104,426 – $186,475
Head of household: $190,201-$372,950

And actually by these figures ours would be 6-7X less for taxable income.

And congratulations on your pregnancy!

And thanks Corki.

 

[LaSainte]

Well, I’ll go out on the opposite limb then and “guess” that you aren’t paying anywhere near 33% of your income in taxes then.

Wrong. We make around 80k and we take home 56. Some years we get lucky and take home 59. So yes, between about 25 and 33 percent. Any other aspect of my financial life you would care to scrutinize?

And I never said I was in he 33% bracket, I said we PAY 33% in taxes. There is a sneaky but subtle difference.

 

[Corki]

Corki, relax my friend. We are health related. Many programs that help the poor are health related$ All our questions are related to health.

Pick a story and stick to it please.

You previously stated.

Another poster above asked if it is legal to ask what kind of bc they use. Absolutely!! It is asked when our post partum women get on the program.

So are you providing health care services or doing intake for an aid program?

Besides, you have to be more than health “related”. You have to have a valid reason to collect the information and the information has to be used for the person’s care.

This is scary. You take a very vulnerable woman, poor and post partum and ask them personal questions about their sex life that you have no legal right to ask and no valid use for the information. It says a lot about the degrading process of getting help for the poor that, according to you, no one even refuses to answer. They are intimidated and coerced with the “carrot” of possible aid to let you do whatever you want and to violate their privacy.

Does anyone really wonder why, if this is the way the poor are treated when they ask for help, that they try to take advantage?

OT, but it occurs to me that this kind of questioning can be very dangerous. The poor are often not well educated. This line of questioning could lead a post-partum woman to decide to take birth control pills while her children are still of nusing age. Encouraging a woman, even indirectly, to pump hormones into infants is vile, immoral and abusive.

 

[Corki]

And I never said I was in he 33% bracket, I said we PAY 33% in taxes.

Still don’t believe you. You might have withholding that equals 33% of your gross but there is no way, in the US, that a married person, with children, making what you claim, is paying anywhere near 33% in total taxes.

There is a sneaky but subtle difference.

Why do you feel the need to be “sneaky” in this discussion?

 

[joclucsylv]

Pick a story and stick to it please.

You previously stated.

So are you providing health care services or doing intake for an aid program?

Besides, you have to be more than health “related”. You have to have a valid reason to collect the information and the information has to be used for the person’s care.

This is scary. You take a very vulnerable woman, poor and post partum and ask them personal questions about their sex life that you have no legal right to ask and no valid use for the information. It says a lot about the degrading process of getting help for the poor that, according to you, no one even refuses to answer. They are intimidated and coerced with the “carrot” of possible aid to let you do whatever you want and to violate their privacy.

Does anyone really wonder why, if this is the way the poor are treated when they ask for help, that they try to take advantage?

OT, but it occurs to me that this kind of questioning can be very dangerous. The poor are often not well educated. This line of questioning could lead a post-partum woman to decide to take birth control pills while her children are still of nusing age. Encouraging a woman, even indirectly, to pump hormones into infants is vile, immoral and abusive.

Corki, you are quite the lady aren’t you?? LOL!! You know it all. Good for you!!

 

[joclucsylv]

Pick a story and stick to it please.

You previously stated.

So are you providing health care services or doing intake for an aid program?

Besides, you have to be more than health “related”. You have to have a valid reason to collect the information and the information has to be used for the person’s care.

This is scary. You take a very vulnerable woman, poor and post partum and ask them personal questions about their sex life that you have no legal right to ask and no valid use for the information. It says a lot about the degrading process of getting help for the poor that, according to you, no one even refuses to answer. They are intimidated and coerced with the “carrot” of possible aid to let you do whatever you want and to violate their privacy.

Does anyone really wonder why, if this is the way the poor are treated when they ask for help, that they try to take advantage?

OT, but it occurs to me that this kind of questioning can be very dangerous. The poor are often not well educated. This line of questioning could lead a post-partum woman to decide to take birth control pills while her children are still of nusing age. Encouraging a woman, even indirectly, to pump hormones into infants is vile, immoral and abusive.

Ok Corki, this is where I stop conversing with you before this gets uncharitable. But I have to say one more thing. Please rest assure that post partum women coming in for heating assistance aren’t asked what kind of bc they use. Yes, we provide federal aid that very much relates to the healthj of post partum women and children. You are acting as if I made up the questions on the intake form lol! They are printed by the government so where do you get off saying that it isn’t legal to ask what kind of bc they are using? Take it up with the government, not me. Perhaps the government is asking the question for stats. I don’t care about their sex lives. You make it sound like we are asking what position they like it best in. As my dad often told me and I am now passing the advice to you USE YOUR HEAD. Peace and Good bye!