NFP argument

[LittleFlower378]

I think the author is right about the positions. He is saying it may not be a sin, but it could be if taken lustfully. Alot of times these different positions are used in pornography.

 

[bzkoss236]

bzkoss236;9786880:

Then tell him that sex within marriage is supposed to be an act of giving, not receiving

.???

Could explain to me , please?

The marriage is a mutual and reciprocal donation of bodies. The fact of making one flesh is a mutual and reciprocal union of bodies.

During this marital act:

1.The wife is giving her own body to her husband, the wife is offering her own body to her husband and the husband is receiving the own body of his wife;

1. The husband is giving his own body to his wife , the husband is offering his own body to his wife, and the wife is receiving the own body of her husband.

The moral obligations coming from the natural contract and the natural institution are:

For husband to give and to offer his own body to his wife and to receive the body of his wife.

For wife to give and to offer her own body to her husband and to receive the body of her husband.

Thus, the marital act has to be unitive and procreative: unity and potential procreativity:

Unity means the carnal union of bodies in the human fashion with sexual cooperation

Procreativity means the climax of husband has to take place in the right place: the human nature of male body and the human nature of female body.

The theology of the body is dual: A theology of the body of the female and the theology of the body of male with the metaphysics of the wife’s body and the metaphysics of husband’s body: alterity and complementarity of the humanity.

Yes, the act is mutual, but you shouldn’t be using sex for your selfish pleasure. Sex is about giving of yourself to your spouse, not about expecting to receive from your spouse. You may know it gives you pleasure, but your focus should be less on yourself and more on making your spouse feel pleasure. And, being mutual, your spouse should do the same for you, but it should be given of them, not mandated by you.

Do you see what I mean? Both give and receive, but I’m talking about where the attention lies.

 

[fpt]

d) if the spouse demands the debt immoderately and in a manner repugnant to right reason, and places an intolerable burden on the other spouse. It is always immoderate to demand the debt more than once a night…

**The fact of giving a number is already an insult to the human intelligence. **

Whatever is beneficial for the marital act is entirely lawful — it is clear that any act that favours procreation is lawful for spouses… Hence… spouses who are intending to have full intercourse are permitted to engage in lesser erotic acts, either between themselves or alone, such as looks, touches, embraces, kisses, words, etc, insofar as these contribute to the conjugal act. This is the case whether the acts are carried out before intercourse or during intercourse itself. Spouses should not, however, linger too long in engaging in these acts, in case ejaculation results before they have had intercourse…

Just balance in these sentences

 

[fpt]

FPT, maybe I should open a new post about this 1906 writing? Remember it was writen in 1906 so it will sound old fashioned. I thought he could have used a better word than “prevents herself from ejaculating.” There has been alot that has been said after 1906 about these things but that does not make all of what he says untrue. I think in an age where “Shades of Grey,” is selling like hot cakes, it would be good to examine what acts are natural and licit, ect. etc. There is a link prior to this one that I havent read yet but gives more on the authors work.

Here it is:
religiousstudiesblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/traditional-catholic-theologian-on-sex.html

This is a good point!!! Good idea

 

[fpt]

I think the author is right about the positions. He is saying it may not be a sin, but it could be if taken lustfully. Alot of times these different positions are used in pornography.

" Using a different position is therefore no more than a venial sin, provided that the danger is excluded of all the semen being ejaculated outside the orifice."

**For him it is a venial sin per se, **

Per se, no theologian, no priest has the right to say like that, that the other sexual positions during the marital act are a venial sin, per se, or not if and only if there are fair reasons. I am not okay. It is very weird.

The metaphysic of the male body, the metaphysic of the female body, thus the metaphysic of sexual positions during the marital act (catholic sexology), the theology of body with the Song of Songs should be used by catholic theologians for understanding that the holy conjugal erotism with different positions, is per se, moral and fully catholic. The using of free human intelligence, creativity for acting like a real human being and having a sexual cooperation in the human fashion is the rule.

 

[LittleFlower378]

I have started a new post, your welcome to post what we have talked about here over there or we can continue our conversation over there.

 

[Johanna_C]

I have started a new post, your welcome to post what we have talked about here over there or we can continue our conversation over there.

Where?

edit: never mind, I found it.

 

[fpt]

fpt;9787536:

Yes, the act is mutual, but you shouldn’t be using sex for your selfish pleasure. Sex is about giving of yourself to your spouse, not about expecting to receive from your spouse. You may know it gives you pleasure, but your focus should be less on yourself and more on making your spouse feel pleasure. And, being mutual, your spouse should do the same for you, but it should be given of them, not mandated by you.

[explain]???

Do you see what I mean? Both give and receive, but I’m talking about where the attention lies.

???

Morally speaking,

In the context of marital act, wife has to give her body to her husband and husband has to give his body to his wife. Therefore (the corollaries), wife has to receive the body to her husband and the husband has to receive the body of his wife.

That means

In the context of marital act, wife has to give her husband the sexual pleasures and to lead him until his orgasm, and husband has to give his wife the sexual pleasures and to lead her until her orgasms.

A true lover (conjugal lover) has to try to give the best of itself during the union of bodies. Each member of couple has the right to get pleasures and the orgasm(s) during the marital act via the behaviors of the other.