NFP - how do you let spouse know it's a non fertile day

[Gliggle]

I know your hubby is the sensitive type but seriously, I’d just say to him "I know it’s squicky to talk about this, dear, but I just want to let you know that my chart is always in the top draw and on safe days I mark it with a green tick. Just sayin’ if you ever want to know the agenda and I’m not around "… If you look up and he’s got his fingers in is ears chanting la la la… perhaps you will have to be more creative. It’s only a small squeamy moment for him to look at the chart if he’s interested. Otherwise try putting a red lamp above your door and switch it on when ‘business is open’. No don’t do that.

Lol

 

[Kelfa28]

I walk up to him and say “It’s a non-fertile day.”

Something along this line.

Or, if the kids are around I would make a general comment like “so, I’m good tonight…it’s up to you!”
Generally with a smile.

I’m fairly no-nonsense and to the point with everything.

I’ve never made a big deal out of pregnancy announcements either.

I’d take a test and then let him know what the results were.

 

[Brendone33]

We use an iphone App called Kindara for charting. Its designed primarily to record temperature, but also allows infinite other information beneath it. You can both be logged into it simultaneously from different devices so I can check her chart status anytime, any place.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I wait for him to make a suggestion. If it’s a non-fertile day, we roll with it. If it’s a fertile day, I say “we can do that if you’re ready for another kid”.

I would think that could lead to a lot of frustration.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

How about “it’s a red light day” For fertile. And a “green light day” for non fertile.

 

[Usige]

How about “it’s a red light day” For fertile. And a “green light day” for non fertile.

While I understand the logic, I’ve always hated linking fertile with stop/unsafe/etc. and non-fertile with go/good/safe. It implies fertile bad, infertile good. We should really think in terms of available and unavailable based on that given day in that give month. In other words green light might be a fertile day if trying to achieve or not trying to postpone.

Not meaning to jump on you, but rather trying to remind people that fertility is a good thing and not to automatically associate it with a negative or limiter. Our default should always be to accept fertility and only postpone when necessary.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

While I understand the logic, I’ve always hated linking fertile with stop/unsafe/etc. and non-fertile with go/good/safe. It implies fertile bad, infertile good. We should really think in terms of available and unavailable based on that given day in that give month. In other words green light might be a fertile day if trying to achieve or not trying to postpone.

Not meaning to jump on you, but rather trying to remind people that fertility is a good thing and not to automatically associate it with a negative or limiter. Our default should always be to accept fertility and only postpone when necessary.

Of course we are assuming here that the couple is using NFP to avoid. One method for this is the “Ladycomp” which is a computer that actually gives red, green, and “yellow” lights. So it would make perfect sense to do this.

Fertility is indeed a good thing. Better than most people seem to think. But we are speaking of the use of NFP as a way to avoid. So it would be impossible to not link “infertile” with good and “fertile” with bad because the couple would be avoiding for serious/grave reasons. If those reasons are legit, then indeed red light, green light and the almost redundant “yellow” light are nice easy ways to communicate cycles without getting all descriptive for a “sensitive” husband.

 

[Usige]

Of course we are assuming here that the couple is using NFP to avoid. One method for this is the “Ladycomp” which is a computer that actually gives red, green, and “yellow” lights. So it would make perfect sense to do this.

Fertility is indeed a good thing. Better than most people seem to think. But we are speaking of the use of NFP as a way to avoid. So it would be impossible to not link “infertile” with good and “fertile” with bad because the couple would be avoiding for serious/grave reasons. If those reasons are legit, then indeed red light, green light and the almost redundant “yellow” light are nice easy ways to communicate cycles without getting all descriptive for a “sensitive” husband.

My point is that the human mind is a master at using symbols to create short cuts in our brains. Borrowing symbols from other areas is a quick way to program a behavior. The fact that the Lady Comp uses a fixed stop light symbology with fertile = stop/danger, not enough info = warning, infertile = go/safe subtly reinforces the idea that pregnancy = danger. If they had an option to set intent so that the colors changed on intent I wouldn’t care so much.

It also discounts the fact that family planning should be an on going thing between both the husband and wife. How does red = fertile help if the husband says they are okay either way and the wife starts out saying “not this month” but changes her mind? The husband would see red/bad/“Danger, Will Robinson”, when she might be receptive so he might not even initiate. Those fixed mental shortcuts can stop conversation before it even starts.

To be honest it’s one of the reasons my wife and I stopped teaching NFP after 6 years. Despite numerous attempts to only talk about available and unavailable days, students would always ask us if day X was “safe”. NFP isn’t about “safe” and “unsafe” because that implies danger. Available and unavailable is completely about intent and changes based on intent. Too much of NFP has adopted contraception’s language (safe/unsafe, effectiveness, etc.) When everyone assumes NFP’s principle and primary goal is to avoid pregnancy then it is no wonder that some outside believe it is just Church approved contraception. It’s a little like Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. If we always gear the conversation to avoiding as the default rather than a neutral choice, then it becomes the basis of what we believe.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

My point is that the human mind is a master at using symbols to create short cuts in our brains. Borrowing symbols from other areas is a quick way to program a behavior. The fact that the Lady Comp uses a fixed stop light symbology with fertile = stop/danger, not enough info = warning, infertile = go/safe subtly reinforces the idea that pregnancy = danger. If they had an option to set intent so that the colors changed on intent I wouldn’t care so much.You and I are probably similar in our NFP views. We too taught NFP but could not continue to teach it because of conscience and issues with presentation. But the Church, in her Mercy has decided that this is a legitimate and indeed merciful way to help a couple who cannont/shouldnot conceive at a certain time. So, indeed Pregnancy can indeed = danger. I have known couples who pregnancy would have been more than an inconvenience but rather a life and death issue. The verty nature of NFP as used to avoid is just that avoiding something. If this is used correctly by couples is the subject of many a NFP debate on these threads but that is not what this thread is about…

It also discounts the fact that family planning should be an on going thing between both the husband and wife. How does red = fertile help if the husband says they are okay either way and the wife starts out saying “not this month” but changes her mind? The husband would see red/bad/“Danger, Will Robinson”, when she might be receptive so he might not even initiate. Those fixed mental shortcuts can stop conversation before it even starts.I’m confused. The goal of NFP in the case at hand is to avoid…

To be honest it’s one of the reasons my wife and I stopped teaching NFP after 6 years. Us tooDespite numerous attempts to only talk about available and unavailable days, students would always ask us if day X was “safe”. NFP isn’t about “safe” and “unsafe” because that implies dangerThere may be danger. In fact if you are using NFP to avoid there SHOULD be danger. Financial danger, mental health danger, marital danger, physical danger… Available and unavailable is completely about intent and changes based on intent. Too much of NFP has adopted contraception’s languageBecause if you deny the contraceptive nature of NFP (as being used to avoid) you are denying the very nature of the act (non act) (safe/unsafe, effectiveness, etc.) When everyone assumes NFP’s principle and primary goal is to avoid pregnancy then it is no wonder that some outside believe it is just Church approved contraception.Can you show me how it is different? It’s a little like Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. If we always gear the conversation to avoiding as the default rather than a neutral choice, then it becomes the basis of what we believe.

If we always gear the conversation to avoiding as the default rather than a neutral choice, then it becomes the basis of what we believe.

This is the truest thing you have said. Bar none! NFP is the EXCEPTION not the rule. Fertility and open relations is the “rule” as established by the nature of the sacrament, God’s command, and well, biology. But, what is being discussed in this thread is the AVOIDANCE of pregnancy.

IF one is not using NFP to avoid, or NFP to try to achieve a difficult pregnancy then what do we call our frequency of sex? That is easy, it is called marriage!

But that is not what this thread is about…

NFP is being practiced by the OP as a way to avoid. The charitable assumption is that Just/serious/ grave (whatever word is being thrown around to convey the same exercise of conscience) We must charitably assume that the OP is oriented to not conceiving and in doing so red light or any other “go to town” or get the heck away from me communication is indeed appropriate bearing in mind the relationship the marital couple have…

My wife could literally come at me with a cross and some garlic around her neck like I was a vampire and I would completely understand our shorthand.

 

[kozlosap]

I walk up to him and say “It’s a non-fertile day.”

That would be my answer too. If that isn’t your answer then I think you need some help with verbal communication. For goodness sakes, you are married, not in junior high.

 

[Usige]

Hoosier Daddy, I don’t really disagree with you and don’t want to drag the topic off more than we already have (mea culpa). I also wasn’t trying to imply anything about the OP’s decision to avoid or not. I really was talking about being careful to ascribe red/stop with fertility as a default. Hopefully it would only be a default for someone for a short time period so I was more looking at the danger of programming a short cut in the brain to set a default of fertile = stop. I always thought that Drs Billings were smart when they chose white baby stickers for potentially fertile. It implies a more neutral choice with nothing implying good or bad.

Anyways, I have derailed this thread long enough.

 

[alphawoman]

My husband would make it his priority to know. We’d be counting down the days together after peak, then ceasing to abstain enthusiastically once our +3 count had passed.

Spouses need to take joint responsibility for the privilege of fertility. Your husband isn’t squeamish about sex, I presume, so there’s no problem using the word mucus for the 30 seconds required every day to make a joint decision.

 

[LongingSoul]

My point is that the human mind is a master at using symbols to create short cuts in our brains. Borrowing symbols from other areas is a quick way to program a behavior. The fact that the Lady Comp uses a fixed stop light symbology with fertile = stop/danger, not enough info = warning, infertile = go/safe subtly reinforces the idea that pregnancy = danger. If they had an option to set intent so that the colors changed on intent I wouldn’t care so much.

It also discounts the fact that family planning should be an on going thing between both the husband and wife. How does red = fertile help if the husband says they are okay either way and the wife starts out saying “not this month” but changes her mind? The husband would see red/bad/“Danger, Will Robinson”, when she might be receptive so he might not even initiate. Those fixed mental shortcuts can stop conversation before it even starts.

To be honest it’s one of the reasons my wife and I stopped teaching NFP after 6 years. Despite numerous attempts to only talk about available and unavailable days, students would always ask us if day X was “safe”. NFP isn’t about “safe” and “unsafe” because that implies danger. Available and unavailable is completely about intent and changes based on intent. Too much of NFP has adopted contraception’s language (safe/unsafe, effectiveness, etc.) When everyone assumes NFP’s principle and primary goal is to avoid pregnancy then it is no wonder that some outside believe it is just Church approved contraception. It’s a little like Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. If we always gear the conversation to avoiding as the default rather than a neutral choice, then it becomes the basis of what we believe.

Honestly, I think you may be over reacting. Maybe I’m talking out of my hat but in my experience and of the few girls close to me that do NFP in their marriages… talk of all the technicalities can diminish the experience of sex for men. They like it to remain a mysterious thing and are more happy to follow the program trusting their wives with the process. My husband is one of the worst. Even yesterday I said the word estrogen when I was telling him something the doctor said and his eyes started to roll back in his head.

For women saying the word safe is a reflection of the enormity of childbearing. It’s a huge thing to go through and when you know that you aren’t in a position to go there at the time… ‘safe’ does reflect the feeling.

If a couple are invested enough in their faith to do family planning the Catholic way, the language used isn’t going to be here nor there.

 

[E_7]

He checks OvuView app on my phone for a note or he goes straight to the Ladycomp and see if it’s green (infertile) , red (fertile) or yellow (not sure). Or sometimes he just asks “is it green already?”.

 

[E_7]

You can get a magic marker whiteboard calendar for the fridge and mark the day with a green or red marker. But I like Pensmama idea better of putting the info in the bathroom.

 

[white_sheep]

You should have a calendar. He can look at it. We have a monitor now and I just push the button and see what it says. I generally know about where she is in her cycle anyway. Don’t worry about it, if he is interested he will find out.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I walk up to him and say “It’s a non-fertile day.”

Yep! We usually decide together to make love. Sometimes I surprise him with pretty lingerie when he gets home announcing the beginning of stage3…that also gets the point across. (We don’t have living children though, so this is easier for us than some. )

 

[Kelfa28]

I used to get frustrated when I felt like I was the only one who had any idea what was going on and…at the end of the day…what NFP actually was.

If he’d ask I’d just tell him to look at my charts and he could tell me what he thought.

That doesn’t happen too often anymore.

When we first started charting I never said anything and if he asked…I’d tell him to look at the charts.

Clearly, that didn’t get us anywhere.

I stopped doing that and moved to just letting him know what was going on if I thought we had a green light day.

Now we’ve come full circle and no one says anything anymore.

Why?

Neither of us trust NFP and I’ve stopped charting.

So, we’re abstaining until we figure out what we are going to do.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I used to get frustrated when I felt like I was the only one who had any idea what was going on and…at the end of the day…what NFP actually was.

If he’d ask I’d just tell him to look at my charts and he could tell me what he thought.

That doesn’t happen too often anymore.

When we first started charting I never said anything and if he asked…I’d tell him to look at the charts.

Clearly, that didn’t get us anywhere.

I stopped doing that and moved to just letting him know what was going on if I thought we had a green light day.

Now we’ve come full circle and no one says anything anymore.

Why?

Neither of us trust NFP and I’ve stopped charting.

So, we’re abstaining until we figure out what we are going to do.

I’m so sorry for your heavy cross! :console: NFP can be really, REALLY hard at times. I can’t imagine doing it with as healthy of fertility as you and your husband have.

 

[E_7]

Yep! We usually decide together to make love. Sometimes I surprise him with pretty lingerie when he gets home announcing the beginning of stage3…that also gets the point across. (We don’t have living children though, so this is easier for us than some. )

Classic. I miss those times. :bighanky: