NFP & Ideal Family Size

[Divine_Muse]

I tried to do a search, but I wasn’t finding the answers I needed.

Just a little background information, after almost a ten year absence from the church I finally came back on Palm Sunday. There’s a lot I still don’t understand, hence why I registered here.

However, I do have a question regarding to contraceptives, NFP, and family size.

I’m still “brushing up” on my Catholic knowledge base and am able to understand and accept all of the teachings except for the use of contraceptives. I don’t agree with abortion, but I suppose my concern is that NFP is not reliable, especially if your periods are irregular.

I’m not even married, but my concern would be having a large family without the financial means to support them. I know we’re suppose to accept any child that God sends our ways. And yes there are large families such as the Duggars or Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie, but financially they are able to care for 10 + children.

I just find it difficult to accept that it would be responsible of me to have several children if I was married and we had an average income. I wouldn’t want to rely on welfare either. I mean, what would the right thing to do be in such a situation? Assuming you are not using a contraceptive with abortifacient properties (such as a condom for instance), are we not ethically responsible for being honest with ourselves and saying as much as I want children I can only care for say X amount? This isn’t to say you wouldn’t love any kid after X amount, just that financially their lives would be more difficult.

I just find it difficult to believe that all married couples are willing to accept any amount of children without any regard for their financial situation. Even a middle class family would have difficulty raising say 5 children, financially.

So I guess what I wanted to know, was how you reconciled the aspect of being open to life with the reality that you may not have the financially means to actually have a large family? Does that aspect ever come into play when using NFP? Or would you feel more secure using a different contraceptive?

Because if we are to say, if you can’t afford to have several children you shouldn’t get married and have children, then wouldn’t that apply to most middle class families?

 

[agapewolf]

I tried to do a search, but I wasn’t finding the answers I needed.

Just a little background information, after almost a ten year absence from the church I finally came back on Palm Sunday. There’s a lot I still don’t understand, hence why I registered here.

However, I do have a question regarding to contraceptives, NFP, and family size.

I’m still “brushing up” on my Catholic knowledge base and am able to understand and accept all of the teachings except for the use of contraceptives. I don’t agree with abortion, but I suppose my concern is that NFP is not reliable, especially if your periods are irregular.

I’m not even married, but my concern would be having a large family without the financial means to support them. I know we’re suppose to accept any child that God sends our ways. And yes there are large families such as the Duggars or Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie, but financially they are able to care for 10 + children.

I just find it difficult to accept that it would be responsible of me to have several children if I was married and we had an average income. I wouldn’t want to rely on welfare either. I mean, what would the right thing to do be in such a situation? Assuming you are not using a contraceptive with abortifacient properties (such as a condom for instance), are we not ethically responsible for being honest with ourselves and saying as much as I want children I can only care for say X amount? This isn’t to say you wouldn’t love any kid after X amount, just that financially their lives would be more difficult.

I just find it difficult to believe that all married couples are willing to accept any amount of children without any regard for their financial situation. Even a middle class family would have difficulty raising say 5 children, financially.

So I guess what I wanted to know, was how you reconciled the aspect of being open to life with the reality that you may not have the financially means to actually have a large family? Does that aspect ever come into play when using NFP? Or would you feel more secure using a different contraceptive?

Because if we are to say, if you can’t afford to have several children you shouldn’t get married and have children, then wouldn’t that apply to most middle class families?

The idea that contraceptives actually work with the statistics published is a fallacy.

NFP is more effective than any artificial birth control- it is designed for “irregular” cycles. I’ve been charting for 8 years (I’m single) so that I know about my health issues- which were discovered and diagnosed by charting, and wouldn’t have been found any other way.

Intentionally sterilizing the “marital act” which is supposed to renew the wedding vows every time is being unfaithful to the wedding vows. It is to express full and complete self gift, which when sterilized is like bulemia.

 

[Divine_Muse]

The idea that contraceptives actually work with the statistics published is a fallacy.

NFP is more effective than any artificial birth control- it is designed for “irregular” cycles. I’ve been charting for 8 years (I’m single) so that I know about my health issues- which were discovered and diagnosed by charting, and wouldn’t have been found any other way.

Intentionally sterilizing the “marital act” which is supposed to renew the wedding vows every time is being unfaithful to the wedding vows. It is to express full and complete self gift, which when sterilized is like bulemia.

Thank you for your answer. Aside from the resources provided at this website, who would you recommend me to research, when seeking out more information about NFP? I really do like that charting helped you discover health issues. That’s something I didn’t know.

Thank you again.

 

[agapewolf]

Thank you for your answer. Aside from the resources provided at this website, who would you recommend me to research, when seeking out more information about NFP? I really do like that charting helped you discover health issues. That’s something I didn’t know.

Thank you again.

Creighton method is the best when dealing with health problems.

www.omsoul.com can find you more info about doctors and teachers (the method is listed by their name)

Also, creightonmodel.com/

The church does not teach that one should just be irresponsible with planning their family. Financial burden can be a serious reason to consider limiting family size, but it must be an honest assessment, not just because someone wants a 2nd house or something.

We are talking about sharing in the awesome privaledge of creating human beings. Marriage is an icon that points us to the love of the trinity and Christ to his church. We can’t “sterilize” that.

 

[leonie]

I tried to do a search, but I wasn’t finding the answers I needed.

Just a little background information, after almost a ten year absence from the church I finally came back on Palm Sunday. There’s a lot I still don’t understand, hence why I registered here.

However, I do have a question regarding to contraceptives, NFP, and family size.

I’m still “brushing up” on my Catholic knowledge base and am able to understand and accept all of the teachings except for the use of contraceptives. I don’t agree with abortion, but I suppose my concern is that NFP is not reliable, especially if your periods are irregular.

I’m not even married, but my concern would be having a large family without the financial means to support them. I know we’re suppose to accept any child that God sends our ways. And yes there are large families such as the Duggars or Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie, but financially they are able to care for 10 + children.

I just find it difficult to accept that it would be responsible of me to have several children if I was married and we had an average income. I wouldn’t want to rely on welfare either. I mean, what would the right thing to do be in such a situation? Assuming you are not using a contraceptive with abortifacient properties (such as a condom for instance), are we not ethically responsible for being honest with ourselves and saying as much as I want children I can only care for say X amount? This isn’t to say you wouldn’t love any kid after X amount, just that financially their lives would be more difficult.

I just find it difficult to believe that all married couples are willing to accept any amount of children without any regard for their financial situation. Even a middle class family would have difficulty raising say 5 children, financially.

So I guess what I wanted to know, was how you reconciled the aspect of being open to life with the reality that you may not have the financially means to actually have a large family? Does that aspect ever come into play when using NFP? Or would you feel more secure using a different contraceptive?

Because if we are to say, if you can’t afford to have several children you shouldn’t get married and have children, then wouldn’t that apply to most middle class families?

1. I think you are overestimating the income necessary to support a family. first of all, your income generally grows as you get older. And, therefore, you have more money to support your growing family.

Also, you can have a comfortable standard of living if you are willing to have forgo some luxuries and buy secondhand. Also, in our society at this time, there are many child tax credits and deductions for children. With our brood of seven, we don’t actually pay any income tax.

1. We associate with many large families and all are middle class. Though, we have a reasonable cost of living in Indiana. I could see that it would be much more difficult to have a large family in some large cities that have a high cost of living. In that case, I would encourage those families to relocate to the midwest.
2. NFP is very reliable if you follow the rules. The problem is that many don’t follow the rules. That’s because it’s hard to abstain. It’s hard to abstain because God loves life!!! And, because of our fallen nature, any action that requires self discipline is hard, hard, hard.
3. Most women will naturally have a year of infertility if they are breastfeeding. Of course, that’s not true for all women. However, for most women, bfing would naturallty space their kids two years apart.
4. Most people have their kids one at a time. When you look at a family with seven kids, it’s overwhelming to think of providing for them. But, we had our kids one at a time. Adding one more was not a big deal. Very few families have multiply births, so…

We only had one “accidental pregnancy.” It was because I had a month of confusing physical signs. Unfortunately, the pregnancy ended in miscarriage. which is probably because my hormones were out of whack.

I wish I had that baby. I think about her often.

 

[KellyGirlErin]

I agree with OP… When the church starts paying for the expense of kids, then they can tell me to not use birth control!
PS look around at your church, how many families do you see with 4 plus kids?

 

[Consecrated]

I tried to do a search, but I wasn’t finding the answers I needed.

Just a little background information, after almost a ten year absence from the church I finally came back on Palm Sunday. There’s a lot I still don’t understand, hence why I registered here.

However, I do have a question regarding to contraceptives, NFP, and family size.

I’m still “brushing up” on my Catholic knowledge base and am able to understand and accept all of the teachings except for the use of contraceptives. I don’t agree with abortion, but I suppose my concern is that NFP is not reliable, especially if your periods are irregular.

I’m not even married, but my concern would be having a large family without the financial means to support them. I know we’re suppose to accept any child that God sends our ways. And yes there are large families such as the Duggars or Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie, but financially they are able to care for 10 + children.

I just find it difficult to accept that it would be responsible of me to have several children if I was married and we had an average income. I wouldn’t want to rely on welfare either. I mean, what would the right thing to do be in such a situation? Assuming you are not using a contraceptive with abortifacient properties (such as a condom for instance), are we not ethically responsible for being honest with ourselves and saying as much as I want children I can only care for say X amount? This isn’t to say you wouldn’t love any kid after X amount, just that financially their lives would be more difficult.

I just find it difficult to believe that all married couples are willing to accept any amount of children without any regard for their financial situation. Even a middle class family would have difficulty raising say 5 children, financially.

So I guess what I wanted to know, was how you reconciled the aspect of being open to life with the reality that you may not have the financially means to actually have a large family? Does that aspect ever come into play when using NFP? Or would you feel more secure using a different contraceptive?

Because if we are to say, if you can’t afford to have several children you shouldn’t get married and have children, then wouldn’t that apply to most middle class families?

Hi! These are all very good questions, it’s wonderful that you’re asking them, even before you’re married! For an overall philosophical look at the questions you’re asking, I recommend our late Holy Father’s book “Love and Responsibility”. As the title indicates, it’s a look at how we are supposed to balance the love and generosity of parenthood with prudence.

For what it’s worth, my DH and I have 5 children, the youngest due to be born in early July. We most definitely fall into the “middle class”, and what’s more, we are a single income family. We own a very modest 1200 sq ft. house, in a safe neighborhood, with a bit of a back yard for the kids and our garden. My in-laws are very generous with us, and so we are able to afford to send the children to the parochial school, but if we were not able to do that at some point, we are completely open to homeschooling. We have started savings funds for all our children, and we put in what we can, but we have no intention of limiting family size in order to fund everyone’s college education, for instance.

I’m just wondering, when you say that with more children, the family would “suffer” for lack of material things, what exactly do you have in mind that’s materially necessary for happiness? Something to ponder…

 

[Rence]

However, I do have a question regarding to contraceptives, NFP, and family size.

I’m still “brushing up” on my Catholic knowledge base and am able to understand and accept all of the teachings except for the use of contraceptives. I don’t agree with abortion, but I suppose my concern is that NFP is not reliable, especially if your periods are irregular.

**NFP is reliable, it for some reason has a stigma attached to it. There are a few different methods that can be used together to make it very effective. You’re going to have to be proactive and seek it out yourself. Not many doctors and nurses will teach about it. You can research it online, and you can contact the diocese and see if there are classes available. There are books that folks here can recommend. The pill, OTOH, comes with a lot of risks like certain types of cancers, clots, stroke, pulmonary embolism. The Church only allows you to take contraception for a true medical reason, and it really is a good and sensible guideline. You should really research the various methods of NFP and work with them so that they work for you. You can’t really say it doesn’t work unless you have given it honest effort. **

I’m not even married, but my concern would be having a large family without the financial means to support them. I know we’re suppose to accept any child that God sends our ways. And yes there are large families such as the Duggars or Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie, but financially they are able to care for 10 + children.

The Church encourages responsible parenting. If you know you can’t afford more than one or two children, then you shouldn’t have them (while at the same time being open to life and using NFP to space out or delay having more children). The Church doesn’t want you to you have too many children that you can’t afford to have. They want you to use your conscience and not be selfish. There’s a difference between having difficulty making mortgage/rent, electricity, water, etc. bills and choosing to buy a third car when you really don’t need a third car.

I just find it difficult to accept that it would be responsible of me to have several children if I was married and we had an average income. I wouldn’t want to rely on welfare either. I mean, what would the right thing to do be in such a situation? Assuming you are not using a contraceptive with abortifacient properties (such as a condom for instance), are we not ethically responsible for being honest with ourselves and saying as much as I want children I can only care for say X amount? This isn’t to say you wouldn’t love any kid after X amount, just that financially their lives would be more difficult.

Yes, that’s true.Only you know what your true financial status is, and how much you can afford to do.

I just find it difficult to believe that all married couples are willing to accept any amount of children without any regard for their financial situation. Even a middle class family would have difficulty raising say 5 children, financially.

They don’t. They use NFP according to their situation.

So I guess what I wanted to know, was how you reconciled the aspect of being open to life with the reality that you may not have the financially means to actually have a large family? Does that aspect ever come into play when using NFP? Or would you feel more secure using a different contraceptive?

**I would reseach NFP, I would not use contraception for the purpose of direct contraception. And I would read Humanae Vitae, and I would seek counsel from my priest. **

Because if we are to say, if you can’t afford to have several children you shouldn’t get married and have children, then wouldn’t that apply to most middle class families?

**Probably. But only you know what your situation is, and what would constitute a burden or an unrealistic number. Though, if you can’t afford to have at least one, I wouldn’t get married. I don’t think the Church will let you go into a marriage thinking you’re not going to have any. You’ll learn about that in Pre Canna classes too.

No one wants you to have too many children to take care of. One of my clinical instructors told me that the CC in her county supports Catholic families who need it. They give them money, food, whatever. Apparently one of her friends, upon having her 8th child, received a visit from her pastor, who told her that she was given “special dispensation” to have tubal ligation. I laughed it off as nonsense, it was like a joke to me…but OTOH, how can a parishioner get away with such a fallacy? I mean, wouldn’t others ask the priest for dispensation as well? Of course, I don’t think you can get dispensation such as that. But who knows without knowing the whole story Anyway, the point is, no one expects you to keep spitting out kids and relying on others to take care of them. It’s part of responsible parenting.
**

 

[Rence]

I’m just wondering, when you say that with more children, the family would “suffer” for lack of material things, what exactly do you have in mind that’s materially necessary for happiness? Something to ponder…

I would say that being able to afford paying the electric, phone, (some pay for gas - I did when I lived up north), mortgage/rent, taxes on your property can be crazy.

Now, I moved from the north to the south for personal reasons. However, I had no more “family” left to leave. Suggesting people move to an area where the cost of living is lower (and I know no one said that) is unrealistic, and isn’t required anyway. But our property tax went from almost $9000/year, no exaggeration, to $800/year for much more property. Up north our gas bill was $800 for our family building every two months. Our electricity was over $1000 each month. Now we don’t have a gas bill and the electric is usually around $450/month. Gas prices are cheaper in the south too. At least where I live. But again, I moved for personal reasons. Depending on where people live and what their situations are, they’re going to have bills. That’s just part of life. And not everyone is going to up and leave just so that they can have many children.

So, I would say that you have to be able to pay for a roof over your children’s head, electricity, some way to keep them warm in the winter (Californians can afford to turn off the heat and just be cold, but in Chicago, it would be unrealistic) whether via electric or gas, you still have to pay for water. Groceries aren’t cheap, though there are ways to be frugal. Goodwill is an AWESOME place to buy clothing. And let’s face it, kids don’t need more than what you can get at Target. They grow fast and destroy their clothes playing. No one’s situation is the same, and things vary from city to city, and even different parts of a city. It’s kind of naive to think that everyone can have five kids and live “comfortably”. Sorry, don’t want to offend

 

[shondrea]

Take a gooood long thought on how much a middle class family really needs. I didn’t even grow up middle class. I was lower working class, but my Dad supported his four kids and mother on one income just fine. When you are poor with a large family, you realize you don’t “need” a lot you think you do. Kids don’t “need” as much as THEY think they do

 

[kage_ar]

I agree with OP… When the church starts paying for the expense of kids, then they can tell me to not use birth control!
PS look around at your church, how many families do you see with 4 plus kids?

What a sad way to think of God’s gifts.

Prayers that you return to Jesus in the Church.

 

[agapewolf]

I agree with OP… When the church starts paying for the expense of kids, then they can tell me to not use birth control!
PS look around at your church, how many families do you see with 4 plus kids?

Actually, say that to God— he’s the one who designed us to live this way, not the church.

And, btw, the church does indeed help those most in need, as the church is the largest charitable organization in the wordl.

How said to limit the authority that GOD gave to the Church, and Christ’s Gospel because you’re not getting paid.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

OP, I agree with you, as does the church, that couples need to be responsible in their childbearing. I agree with you that if you can’t afford to pay your electric bills etc., you shouldn’t intentionally do anything that would require you to end up say, on welfare. I believe safety nets are made for non-planned needs, not willful negligence. But the questions that require judgment and discernment are:

-how much will a child (or another child) cost?
-are the expenses that are burdensome truly necessary? For example, can we not pay the electric and the taxes because we live in a McMansion? If so, maybe the answer is scaling down the size of the house rather than the family.

I believe that when a couple is judging that they can’t afford another child, they need to be very careful with that judgment. It is important to question yourself and figure out of you’re being prudent or materialistic. Our culture is so materialistic, that it is easy to forget that you really can raise children without that much money. College and private school are expensive. New cars and Disney vacations are expensive. None of these are necessary to having children. If the end result of your discernment is that you prudently need to not have another child, then I respect that, and that’s what NFP is for.

 

[Divine_Muse]

Thank you for all the responses. I have to run now, but I will look over them again carefully and if I have any questions I’ll post answers either tonight or tomorrow.

 

[prolifewife]

I agree with OP… When the church starts paying for the expense of kids, then they can tell me to not use birth control!
PS look around at your church, how many families do you see with 4 plus kids?

This is VERY sad. How many children would you want if you were unable to have any at all? That’s right, never have a single child no matter how hard you try. Makes you think a little differently, huh? Your children are blessings. Each additional child that God so mercifully gives you is further proof of his infinite love for you. If you don’t consider them to be the blessings they are, I’ll be happy to take them off your hands for you.

 

[KellyGirlErin]

Really? And you have unlimited funds? Or would you hit up Catholic Charities to help with the bills?

Besides, maybe some people don’t WANT more than 2 or 3 kids.

And if you all truly think that catholic couples are not using birth control or getting fixed, you are sadly mistaken!

In my church there are TWO (and they are sisters) who each have 8 kids.
Most everyone else has 2 or 3.

 

[agapewolf]

Really? And you have unlimited funds? Or would you hit up Catholic Charities to help with the bills?

Besides, maybe some people don’t WANT more than 2 or 3 kids.

And if you all truly think that catholic couples are not using birth control or getting fixed, you are sadly mistaken!

In my church there are TWO (and they are sisters) who each have 8 kids.
Most everyone else has 2 or 3.

Just because many people don’t follow the God’s plan doesn’t mean that its not a good one.

You have not proven any point by what you have said here. Remember, people also can use NFP to space children.

YOU are sadly mistaken if you believe birth control actually works like it says it does.

One doesn’t need unlimited funds to raise a decent size family.

Until 1930 ALL churches believed that contraception was evil.

 

[KellyGirlErin]

it is now 2010.
Alot of things have changed since the 30’s, including the value of a dollar.

 

[ac_claire]

Really? And you have unlimited funds? Or would you hit up Catholic Charities to help with the bills?

Besides, maybe some people don’t WANT more than 2 or 3 kids.

And if you all truly think that catholic couples are not using birth control or getting fixed, you are sadly mistaken!

In my church there are TWO (and they are sisters) who each have 8 kids.
Most everyone else has 2 or 3.

*Nobody *thinks that all Catholic couples follow the Church’s teachings.

Some Catholic couples use artificial birth control; doesn’t make it right. The fact that “people are doing it” doesn’t really matter. There are also many, many Catholic couples who don’t contracept, and who use NFP to size their families. Many of those families you’re referring to in your own church probably use NFP as well, if it’s a Catholic church.

It can work, and does work for many, many people who don’t find it impossible to follow the teachings of the Church.

 

[PatriceA]

OP, I agree with you, as does the church, that couples need to be responsible in their childbearing. I agree with you that if you can’t afford to pay your electric bills etc., you shouldn’t intentionally do anything that would require you to end up say, on welfare. I believe safety nets are made for non-planned needs, not willful negligence. But the questions that require judgment and discernment are:

-how much will a child (or another child) cost?
-are the expenses that are burdensome truly necessary? For example, can we not pay the electric and the taxes because we live in a McMansion? If so, maybe the answer is scaling down the size of the house rather than the family.

I believe that when a couple is judging that they can’t afford another child, they need to be very careful with that judgment. It is important to question yourself and figure out of you’re being prudent or materialistic. Our culture is so materialistic, that it is easy to forget that you really can raise children without that much money. College and private school are expensive. New cars and Disney vacations are expensive. None of these are necessary to having children. If the end result of your discernment is that you prudently need to not have another child, then I respect that, and that’s what NFP is for.

I think too at some point, if you really are Catholic and totally believe that God provides for all our needs, you have to believe that he will provide for the expenses of having children. Of course you need to be responsible, but you can’t just look at your situation in just income or lack there of at the time you are considering having children. You must have faith to raise a family, in all things. But if God blesses you with children, why wouldn’t you think he would also bless you with the means to raise those children? It just may not be to the extent you expect it to be because you are looking at the situation through materialistic wordly eyes.