NFP Is A Burden

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Smoke Boy said:
“Having sex any time one wants to–that is not a wonderful thing that builds a marriage.”
-Kristalyn

Why not?
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Hm. Why not?

You know…ice cream is GREAT. I love ice cream. 😉 LOVE IT. It’s wonderful stuff. Every day, I can get a different flavor! I would eat ice cream every single evening if I could. If God didn’t want me to, He wouldn’t have made it so wonderful!!

But sometimes, life gets in the way of my ice cream. Sometimes, I really want ice cream, but it’d be really inconvenient to run down to the store and get some. Sometimes, I’m not feeling so well, and I should just skip it. Sometimes I think this old ice cream routine is getting old! It’s still good, ya know, but every single night is just a bit much.

So sometimes, I say to myself: ice cream is indeed good stuff, but I’m going to wait until FRIDAY to get ice cream. And then all week, the anticipation builds. I think about the ice cream. I change my Friday plans, so nothing interferes with my treat! And when Friday DOES roll around, I am so glad I waited!! It’s even better because I had to wait.
OK. Embracing my husband is alot more miraculous than eating ice cream, but the principal is the same. It’s not something we can or should do every day. It’s better when we wait. It doesn’t have to be because of NFP, it’s just better.

And if either my husband or I made sure the other one of us was NEVER turned down, we’d lose a bit of the respect we have for one another. He respects when I’ve had a bad day, and I do the same for him. Abstaining from something we absolutely love is the most selfless thing we can do.

Go to www.e5men.org to learn more.
 
I’m not saying all couples should use NFP. I’m saying all couples ought to learn how to abstain sometimes, happily. It’s selflessness. St. Paul said the same thing.

Thank you! a reply sans the NFP blah, blah, blah. This is exactly what I have been saying from the beginning. As a couple we are to be selfless, that includes abstaining and going along for the sake of the other. We should do this regardless of NFP or not. The NFP glamourization has no place in sexual moral theology or the ridiculous claims that it builds stronger marriages and the like.

I contend NFPers are more suseptible to selfishness than non-NFpers (of active catholics/non-contraceptors). I maintain we may be heading in the direction of thinking that non-NFPers are radical and that NFP carte blanche is compassionate and builds strong marriages - blah, blah, blah.
 
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kristalyn:
Hm. Why not?

You know…ice cream is GREAT. I love ice cream. 😉 LOVE IT. It’s wonderful stuff. Every day, I can get a different flavor! I would eat ice cream every single evening if I could. If God didn’t want me to, He wouldn’t have made it so wonderful!!

But sometimes, life gets in the way of my ice cream. Sometimes, I really want ice cream, but it’d be really inconvenient to run down to the store and get some. Sometimes, I’m not feeling so well, and I should just skip it. Sometimes I think this old ice cream routine is getting old! It’s still good, ya know, but every single night is just a bit much.

So sometimes, I say to myself: ice cream is indeed good stuff, but I’m going to wait until FRIDAY to get ice cream. And then all week, the anticipation builds. I think about the ice cream. I change my Friday plans, so nothing interferes with my treat! And when Friday DOES roll around, I am so glad I waited!! It’s even better because I had to wait.
OK. Embracing my husband is alot more miraculous than eating ice cream, but the principal is the same. It’s not something we can or should do every day. It’s better when we wait. It doesn’t have to be because of NFP, it’s just better.

And if either my husband or I made sure the other one of us was NEVER turned down, we’d lose a bit of the respect we have for one another. He respects when I’ve had a bad day, and I do the same for him. Abstaining from something we absolutely love is the most selfless thing we can do.

Go to www.e5men.org to learn more.
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OR…

A better analogy than eating ice cream would be going to Mass and receiving our Lord in Holy Communion.

By your logic, those who truly love God and desire to receive him intimately in Holy Communion would do well to sometimes abstain from attending Mass and receiving our Lord.

Sorry, but your analogy does not hold at all.

Everyone abstains at certain times as many have already pointed out.

The key point is that abstaining when BOTH spouses desire to share an act of marital intimacy is not normal (in the sense of the norm as dictated by God the Father in Nature). Abstaining in these circumstances is an EXCEPTION which is only granted under serious conditions.

So let’s stop rejoicing that NFP is a good in and of itself. NFP is an exception to the rule that exists by the wisdom of the Creator of all of Nature, and it is in this sense that it is a wonderful gift.
 
Okay, this may sound a little harsh. NFP is inconvenient, for people preventing pregancy, but come on people.:rolleyes: Are we so selfish and live in society of such convenience that this makes NFP look so darn inconvenient? My mom and dad both devout Roman Catholics had their first two sons 10 1/2 months apart. Talk about inconvenience!😃 Isn’t that crazy? Go figure. And taking oral contraceptives isn’t inconvenient? The point is: for preventing or achieving pregnancy NFP is acceptable. Take it or leave it! And yes, I believe it can enhance a couple’s relationship.:yup:
 
The conversation is not about NFP vs Artificial Birth Control. Certainly, in that scenario NFP is far better than ABC and will enhance the marriage. However, NFP is not a necessity and is not the Rule, it is the Exception.
 
My mom and dad both devout Roman Catholics had their first two sons 10 1/2 months apart. Talk about inconvenience!😃

Thank you for making my point about the NFP mentality being selfish.
 
Thought I’d through some statistics in the mix. NFP users have a 2-5% divorce rate (see ccli.org for reference) while contracepting Catholics have a divorce rate equal to the standard (45%?). I don’t know of any stats on faithful non-nfp couples.Also–I do abstain from receiving communion when I know I need to go to confession first, and havn’t. How does the analogy play out? I’m not sure. . .
 
Ham1, you misunderstood me. I was simply pointing out some of the burdens of life:eek: in which I happened to use articifical birth control as an example not as a comparison. I believe I also used having two children 10 1/2 months apart as a burden of life. Isn’t that the title of the thread? “NFP Is a Burden”. Burden or not, isn’t NFP a necessity for the couple trying to prevent pregnancy for health reasons? We all have our crosses to bear right?
 
Your very welcome Smoke Boy. I had hoped someone would get my point.:clapping:
 
Unfortunatly, in this day and age, NFP meets people where they are. My dh and I are converts and the church’s teaching on family and children truly challenged us (as it should!). Without the recourse to NFP I’m not sure we would have made the leap or we would have used abc and been in sin. I’m also not aware of the culture of NFP. I mean, how many people in your parishes actually use it (in it’s broadest sense including letting children come as they may or charting)??? I see NFP users and supporters trying to convince contracepting couples to use a more marriage building way to space children that is acceptable to the church. I’m not sure this is a bad thing?? I know when we first became Catholic, we still were unsure about the size of our family (NFP with a contraceptive attitude). We’re now expecting #5 and have come to a true openness to life. Are we perfect? No. But we’re learning and willing to learn.

Also, in the past to not have children, couples would have to abstain for long periods of time (remember the rhthym method?). Today’s NFP allows couples more intimacy while remaining open to children. I don’t see how having to abstain forever (exaggeration) is better than allowing couples the knowlege to fulfill their marriage covenant, even if it’s only once or twice a month???

So, in conclusion 😉 , I’m glad lots of you are in a place that NFP isn’t needed. Good for you, but lots of couples do need it, it should be readily available for couples to learn and use. Can it be abused, sure, what can’t, but it’s better than the alternatives!!
Jennifer
 
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Ham1:
OR…

A better analogy than eating ice cream would be going to Mass and receiving our Lord in Holy Communion.

By your logic, those who truly love God and desire to receive him intimately in Holy Communion would do well to sometimes abstain from attending Mass and receiving our Lord.

Sorry, but your analogy does not hold at all.

Everyone abstains at certain times as many have already pointed out.

The key point is that abstaining when BOTH spouses desire to share an act of marital intimacy is not normal (in the sense of the norm as dictated by God the Father in Nature). Abstaining in these circumstances is an EXCEPTION which is only granted under serious conditions.

So let’s stop rejoicing that NFP is a good in and of itself. NFP is an exception to the rule that exists by the wisdom of the Creator of all of Nature, and it is in this sense that it is a wonderful gift.
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I agree with you. NFP is not a good in and of itself.

But my analogy DOES hold water. We may desire intimacy with Christ, but hold back. Why?

Maybe we have sinned, and know that to wait, confess those sins, and THEN return for Communion with Him would be infinitely better than to ignore the sin and walk on up for communion anyhow. Waiting, to make it right, is better.

Maybe we went to mass already. Maybe we went to mass Saturday morning, and then a wedding on Saturday afternoon. Now my family wants to go to the anticipated mass Saturday evening. That’s alot of masses for one day. Maybe at that point I decide to abstain. Rightfully so.

Maybe, like ME, because I’d just had a baby, I missed several Sundays of masses. I was too sore, too tired, too unstable, really. I was nursing the baby around the clock, and neither she (baby) nor I could sit well through mass, and I was too hormonal/emotional to leave her home with my husband while I went to mass. So I missed several Sundays…When I did return, after my absence (of maybe 5 weeks?), I CRIED when I went to receive Him in communion. The Eucharist is a miracle every time, but I don’t always cry. I did upon my return.

I don’t recommend that people just randomly abstain from the Eucharist. It is too precious a gift for that.

And I do agree that the most amazing thing in a marriage is for a husband and wife to come together whenever the Spirit prompts them both. However, we cannot possible afford another child right now. I’m not exaggerating. We cannot. It is dire and urgent that we NOT have another child for at least a while! So. We abstain sometimes. And we recognize that it is a sacrifice that we make in love.

That is my point. That’s all.

You are right. But so am I. 😉
 
Smoke Boy:
I contend NFPers are more suseptible to selfishness than non-NFpers (of active catholics/non-contraceptors). I maintain we may be heading in the direction of thinking that non-NFPers are radical and that NFP carte blanche is compassionate and builds strong marriages - blah, blah, blah.
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I don’t believe that non-NFPers are radical. NFP is for serious reason. I have the upmost respect for those who are totally open to life and who welcome God’s gift of chilren.
 
My NFP story is sort of a sad one…

When my husband and I went through the classes, etc., 20 years ago it was 100% presented as “the only approved method of birth control by the Catholic church”. As cradle Catholics, and not that knowledgeable at that, we approached it from that angle. We had 2 children, perfectly timed, then baby #3 which was, as my Catholic doctor put it, God’s will (which was fine with us!). After baby #3 was 2 years old and we had moved to an area where there was little, if any support for NFP. We viewed it as a burden (after using it for 10 years) as I was working and exhausted and had very short cycles…resulting in very, very little intimacy. As a “solution” we both agreed that my husband would have a vasectomy.

Fast forward to now and we are pretty sick over this whole thing. We have grown leaps and bounds in our faith and realize what a dire error we made. I have talked to my priest about this and he basically said what’s done is done and to learn from this. I feel now that my mission is to make sure that people fully understand that NFP is not a method of birth control solely, but a means to space one’s children. We are so sorry for our selfishness and, if we could take back the last 9 years, we would never ever have made such a selfish decision.

Lesson here is that those instructing in the methods of NFP really, really must empahsize and make sure the real reasoning behind it is understood. I feel like I’m in a state of mourning.
 
Smoke Boy:
Again- I am not saying NFP is a barrier to my relationship with my wife. I accept the fact that we need to use it and we make the best of it. I reject the romantisization of NFP, that it is somehow intrinsically a marriage enhancer. The glowing - our marrige is so much better that we discovered NFP stuff. I am expecting some catholic contemporary band to come up with a love song about it, or love poems extolling the use of NFP. Can you imagine waxing poetically about charting and mucous - thats how some of this comes off.
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:rotfl:Gotta agree with you on this one. A while back, I was at a friend’s house, and other Catholic ladies were there, and this subject came up with a bit more graphic detail than I wanted to hear…:o Nothing romantic about it at all.

My dh and I solved our feelings of “burden” with it - we tossed the chart out and gave this part of our lives competely to God. Okay, easy for me to say - we only have 4 children living, one in heaven :angel1: I know other couples who have done this and have many more children. I am envious of them! I also know couples who have done this and their arms ache to hold a child; I cannot begin to imagine their pain. God’s will be done! - easy to say, but not always easy to follow.

However, I am not judging anyone’s motives for postponing pregnancy. I will pray that you and your dw will draw upon the graces given to you in the Sacrament of Matrimony to do what is best for your family.
 
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kristalyn:
Hm. Why not?

OK. Embracing my husband is alot more miraculous than eating ice cream, but the principal is the same. It’s not something we can or should do every day. It’s better when we wait. It doesn’t have to be because of NFP, it’s just better.

No, actually, the principle is NOT the same, as John Paul II pointed out in Love and Responsibility. In no other action that human beings do do you have two completely autonomous human beings with eternal souls giving their whole selves to one another.

You eat the ice cream, and it’s an object that you act upon. The ice cream has no choice in the matter. But never, never, never must a human person be treated as an object to be acted upon (not as a slave, not as a sex object, not as the recipient of violence, etc.). If your husband is like ‘ice cream,’ something you ‘enjoy’ and would like to ‘have’ every day or whenever you want to, your husband is used as an object that you act upon. Even if he goes along with it, objectively speaking, he is viewed/used as a thing. He is not an autonomous ‘other’ who has to be approached with complete reverence for his autonomy.

There just aren’t any analogous principles for the sexual act, except, perhaps, the reception of Christ in the Eucharist.

Sex is not a ‘good thing’ like any other ‘good thing’ that one can take or leave at one’s pleasure.

Sex is the mutual self-giving of two autonomous human beings with everlasting souls.

One should approach in awe and reverence…kinda like going to church in bed…:love:
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Jennifer J:
Unfortunatly, in this day and age, NFP meets people where they are. My dh and I are converts and the church’s teaching on family and children truly challenged us (as it should!). Without the recourse to NFP I’m not sure we would have made the leap or we would have used abc and been in sin. I’m also not aware of the culture of NFP. I mean, how many people in your parishes actually use it (in it’s broadest sense including letting children come as they may or charting)??? I see NFP users and supporters trying to convince contracepting couples to use a more marriage building way to space children that is acceptable to the church. I’m not sure this is a bad thing?? I know when we first became Catholic, we still were unsure about the size of our family (NFP with a contraceptive attitude). We’re now expecting #5 and have come to a true openness to life. Are we perfect? No. But we’re learning and willing to learn.

So, in conclusion 😉 , I’m glad lots of you are in a place that NFP isn’t needed. Good for you, but lots of couples do need it, it should be readily available for couples to learn and use. Can it be abused, sure, what can’t, but it’s better than the alternatives!!
Jennifer
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Just to be clear to everyone here…

You may not know it from my previous posts but my wife and I use NFP. Basically, because we don’t have much money at all right now, but more importantly because we don’t want to have babies every 14 months. It’s not good for my wife and it’s not good for the kids. We are one of those couples that needs to make use of NFP. I know many who don’t need NFP. We do and that’s just one of our crosses to bear. At the same time, that cross is able to be a burden and a gift.

Jennifer makes a great point here! NFP should not be the norm, but the reason we have to put so much of an emphasis on it, is that we are at war! Millions of Catholics are contracepting. NFP is a powerful weapon against this grave evil. There are countless stories of couples turning to NFP with a sort of contraceptive mentality, but then in time, they have a change of heart and open themselves fully to God’s will. I guess that’s the power of working WITH nature!

If this were an ideal world, I would say we should let people know that NFP is out there as a remedy when needed. So, those with serious reason would seek it out and use it and everyone else would be open to life but not using NFP. Unfortunately, this is NOT an ideal world and for that reason, we need to make sure that everyone (especially catholics) understands the gift of NFP. At the same time, we need keep in mind that NFP is the exception and not the rule.
 
I think part of the reason for the way people “romanticize” NFP is because many of them, like my husband and I, come to if after using abc. In the beginning of our marriage, we felt we weren’t “ready” for children, had to buy the house, the new car, etc… When we decided after three years it was time, things didn’t work as we planned.

We were ready for the baby, but nothing happened. My cycles were irregular and my old doctor had put me on the pill to “regulate them.” My husband and I were both unaware that it also acts as an abortificiaent, and I am very sorrowful for any babies that I might have unknowingly killed… After getting less than interested advice from my doctor (“wait a couple of years, sometimes it takes a while for fertiliity to return after using the pill”) of course they never tell you that when they convince you to go on the pill… I switched doctors to one who cared and helped me learn my body’s fertility signs to help acheive a pregnancy.

After my daughter’s birth, we took classes in NFP, but we have never actually abstained from relations or used it really. Yet, we are some of those who gush about how wonderful it is for our marriage. I think it is not so much the NFP method of being cognizant of fertile times that has added so much to our marriage as it is the blessing of being fully open to life and God’s plan for our marriage. We have come from a state of mind (at the beginning of our marriage) of thinking “maybe 3 kids, max, after that, they are too expensive…” to we hope to have as many precious souls as God chooses to send to us.

The best gift of NFP has not been that it is a Church sanctioned form of birth control (we have never used it as such), but that it has opened our hearts and changed our hearts and minds from the selfish contracepting culture of death mentality to a loving and open to life mentality.
 
The best gift of NFP has not been that it is a Church sanctioned form of birth control (we have never used it as such), but that it has opened our hearts and changed our hearts and minds from the selfish contracepting culture of death mentality to a loving and open to life mentality.

Perpetua: That is the trap. It is not NFP that has opened your hearts it is the moral teaching of the Church. Do you understand? The wrong use of NFP is still the “selfish contracepting culture of death mentality” Regardless of NFP, what is liberating is the truth that the church espouses not NFP. Again, people can be open to life without using NFP.
 
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