NFP Makes No Sense To Me

[Scottgun]

I came here to post this and this is the right thread. If you practice nfp and your marriage doesn’t take strain, you’re very lucky. My wife and I haven’t been able to have sex for almost a year now. We recently had our first child and now there isn’t a single dry day and thus no phase 3. Sure the theory is awesome, but practically you can’t abstain for over a year and not take strain.

Before we conceived, we would hardly have time for intimacy simply because infertile phases were so short. In addition, every phase 3 would be like starting over and it would hurt so badly for my wife that she ended up in tears. Even at the end of every phase 3 it would still hurt but it would be bearable. This didn’t improve for the two years until we conceived.

Nfp is great for communication and knowing when you’re fertile when you want to conceive, but with nfp there is no sex life. Nfp has destroyed my wife’s sex drive completely. Basically, with nfp, you only have good sex once for every child you conceive.

We say we practice nfp but in fact we just don’t have sex. Is it so bad to not have sex? No. But when you love someone this much and can’t physically give yourself to her completely and can’t receive her completely it really really sucks!

I’d say you need to set up a meeting with an NFP expert because this is not normal.

 

[ishnianqueen]

My wife and I haven’t been able to have sex for almost a year now. We recently had our first child and now there isn’t a single dry day and thus no phase 3.

Ditto to the poster who told you to get in touch with an expert. According to my own NFP teachers, with postpartum NFP, there is something called a “basic infertile pattern.” Pretty much, if you’ve got the same kind of mucus for 2 consecutive weeks, you can assume that it’s infertile, and that any change in the mucus is a return of fertility.

You could also try switching to Marquette, which uses a fertility monitor, instead of having to rely only on mucus or sympto-thermal.

But definitely contact someone so they can look at your wife’s charts and actually have a discussion.

 

[Mrc]

We’re pretty much experts and our interpretations are spot on. And regardless, no amount of measuring can make phase 2s shorter and phase 3s longer and help us get into a rhythm which makes it not painful.

Thanks for the advice though. I’ll look into Marquette, but we’re already accurate with the charts.

 

[achmafooma]

We’re pretty much experts and our interpretations are spot on. And regardless, no amount of measuring can make phase 2s shorter and phase 3s longer and help us get into a rhythm which makes it not painful.

Thanks for the advice though. I’ll look into Marquette, but we’re already accurate with the charts.

No, measuring won’t change the cycle…but the cycle you describe is not a normal/healthy cycle. There may be other medical issues that need to be looked at and addressed.

I don’t know how it works in other places, but the NFP teacher in my parish will refer people to a local NaPro Technology doctor in these cases to try and get to the bottom of why the cycles aren’t healthy and, hopefully, fix (or at least improve) them.

Of course NFP won’t fix an underlying medical issue. It’s not meant to. It’s meant to give us information and knowledge. When there are medical issues, the NFP charts can and do help diagnose them, but we have to rely on doctors to actually help us fix them.

 

[Mrc]

Her cycles are text book, just long phase 2s and short phase 3s. There are no medical issues whatsoever.

I agree with nfp, but it is a lot of sacrifice. Almost excessive. The thing is that if you can’t give each other 100% (but only 98%) then you must give 0%. So 0% is better than 98%.

We have many protestant friends who obviously use contraception and all are happy in their marriages and are close to each other. They have beautiful, happy children. With nfp, my wife and I share hardly any intimacy. And not for lack of trying or of love for each other. So although I complain about it, nfp still does make sense, I just know that my wife and I would have a more fulfilled and healthy sex life were we to use condoms. In other words, the importance of nfp is greater than the importance of a healthy sex life. And we are so blessed in so many other ways.

 

[The_Bucket]

I’d certainly listen to achmafooma and the suggestions related to BIP. Marquette can be expensive, so just a heads up on that, but talking to someone about the situation is certainly better than just “sucking it up” and taking on that strain.

As for NFP as a general rule… yes there are complications with it. Yes, it can be difficult. Yes, it can cause a strain. Yes it can be hard, even for Catholics who are 100% committed to it and totally believe in it.

But honestly, that’s because being a follower of Christ in general is hard. I myself struggle with a myriad of defects. I am all the way on board with NFP and, in general, it’s been pretty OK. We’re expecting our third in six years soon, but the first two were back-to-back shortly after our marriage began. We went more than three years without conceiving and had the whole system down pat after those first two. It helped that my wife got healthier after our second child was born. Her cycles are still long and variable but determining Phase III got easier and knowing the cycles are long provides for a longer Phase I as well. Suffice to say that the 21-day-rule provided a good 10 days or so of Phase I; my wife never has cycles less than 30+ days.

And I’m pretty sure we avoided conceiving because of our knowledge. Second cycle after being “fast and loose” with the rules resulted in our third child.

All of that said, my defects are plain. I do not give as much money to the Church or the poor as I should. I have an extremely tough time opening up my wallet for those in need. Why? Because I see myself as someone “in need” as well because I don’t have cable or a smart phone or fancy cars and we need to budget. I grew up in a well-to-do household so discerning between “need” and “want” can be hard now that I’m an adult and living with more or less median household income.

I’m sure I will have to answer for not being generous enough if I don’t change my ways. I am trying. I repent of this sin because, you know what? It’s a real sin. Christ charged us with helping the poor and preaching the Gospel at all times. Everything’s not copacetic if I’m just going to Church a bunch, praying and using NFP. I need to be helping the poor. I need to be donating my treasure and not clinging to it.

Some people don’t want to give up control of their sex lives to God. I’m OK with using His divine plan. But I’m not OK with giving up a chunk of what I earn back to His Church and to the least of His beloved daughters and sons. I want to control my cash flow and make sure my family is well taken care of first. Not just well-fed and well-sheltered but more than that. Only then will I give of my treasure. If that’s not a contraceptive mentality when it comes to money, I don’t know what is.

 

[ishnianqueen]

We’re pretty much experts and our interpretations are spot on.

Even experts will confer with other experts to ensure the highest possible degree of excellency and accuracy of their work…

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Her cycles are text book, just long phase 2s and short phase 3s. There are no medical issues whatsoever.

I agree with nfp, but it is a lot of sacrifice. Almost excessive. The thing is that if you can’t give each other 100% (but only 98%) then you must give 0%. So 0% is better than 98%.

We have many protestant friends who obviously use contraception and all are happy in their marriages and are close to each other. They have beautiful, happy children. With nfp, my wife and I share hardly any intimacy. And not for lack of trying or of love for each other. So although I complain about it, nfp still does make sense, I just know that my wife and I would have a more fulfilled and healthy sex life were we to use condoms. In other words, the importance of nfp is greater than the importance of a healthy sex life. And we are so blessed in so many other ways.

I can sympathize with some of what you have said in your posts. NFP is certainly a struggle for us as well. We use the STM and I have normal length cycles. but as is so common in phase 3 (the “safest” phase) I have no sex drive b/c as soon as I ovulate it goes away.

I admit that my DH and I weren’t always faithful to the Church’s teaching and used condoms or other inappropriate sexual activity during fertile times. About 6 years ago we made the decision to stick with NFP and actually follow and for the most part (98% of the time) we have. I’m certainly not condoning what we did…just admitting that I wasn’t strong enough.

Your wife having pain during sex does not sound normal…if she hasn’t had that checked out I would urge her to go. You mention a short phase 3…what kind of NFP do you use?

 

[Mrc]

Even experts will confer with other experts to ensure the highest possible degree of excellency and accuracy of their work…

Oh, we are in touch with many experts. This isn’t something you do based solely on your own knowledge.

 

[1love]

Her cycles are text book, just long phase 2s and short phase 3s. There are no medical issues whatsoever.

Having a short phase 3 can be a medical problem in itself because if it’s too short, your body cannot sustain pregnancy if you conceive. I had this problem for a while and was able to lengthen my Phase 3 with some dietary changes and over the counter supplements. I recommend the book Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon. NFP should not have to be a source of frustration and if it is, you may be able to change things with a little effort on your part. I don’t want to get too graphic or share too many personal details but this was a major source of contention for my husband and I and once we got past it we were like a new couple, going from two or three “safe” days a month to 4-5 days of abstinence per cycle. I’m sorry, I try not to offer unsolicited advice but my heart goes out to anyone who struggles with this, because it was such a trial for us. Feel free to PM me if you want.

 

[Mrc]

I can sympathize with some of what you have said in your posts. NFP is certainly a struggle for us as well. We use the STM and I have normal length cycles. but as is so common in phase 3 (the “safest” phase) I have no sex drive b/c as soon as I ovulate it goes away.

I admit that my DH and I weren’t always faithful to the Church’s teaching and used condoms or other inappropriate sexual activity during fertile times. About 6 years ago we made the decision to stick with NFP and actually follow and for the most part (98% of the time) we have. I’m certainly not condoning what we did…just admitting that I wasn’t strong enough.

Your wife having pain during sex does not sound normal…if she hasn’t had that checked out I would urge her to go. You mention a short phase 3…what kind of NFP do you use?

Thanks for this reply. We use STM too. The painful sex is caused by us not ever being able to have regular sex and due to the dryness of phase 3. We have also used lubrication, but that makes it worse. We have had it checked out. We’re 100% nfp, very much in love and very happy. We just don’t have a sex life.

I’m guessing you have got to admit that using a condom and having sex during phase 2 is pretty awesome?

 

[Mrc]

Having a short phase 3 can be a medical problem in itself because if it’s too short, your body cannot sustain pregnancy if you conceive. I had this problem for a while and was able to lengthen my Phase 3 with some dietary changes and over the counter supplements. I recommend the book Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon. NFP should not have to be a source of frustration and if it is, you may be able to change things with a little effort on your part. I don’t want to get too graphic or share too many personal details but this was a major source of contention for my husband and I and once we got past it we were like a new couple, going from two or three “safe” days a month to 4-5 days of abstinence per cycle. I’m sorry, I try not to offer unsolicited advice but my heart goes out to anyone who struggles with this, because it was such a trial for us. Feel free to PM me if you want.

Thanks. We have tried everything. No sex doesn’t cause issues really. We are just grateful for our many blessings (including excellent fertility!!).

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Thanks for this reply. We use STM too. The painful sex is caused by us not ever being able to have regular sex and due to the dryness of phase 3. We have also used lubrication, but that makes it worse. We have had it checked out. We’re 100% nfp, very much in love and very happy. We just don’t have a sex life.

I’m guessing you have got to admit that using a condom and having sex during phase 2 is pretty awesome?

lol well yes I will admit to that…but then there’s also the guilt that follows b/c I knew that what we did was wrong. And I admit I struggle with that…Even having sex during phase 2 without anything results in endless obsessing over a possible pregnancy…I have spent $30 in 1 month on pregnancy test b/c well lets just say I’m a little OCD lol! The big struggle for us is that I have a history of miscarriage and although I really would like more kids I am honestly scared to death to try. Scared of miscarriage, scared of more kids with disabilities (I have 2 with issues), scared of not having enough help, scared of having to be on pregnancy medicaid etc etc etc…I wish I could just let it go but for some reason I can’t.

As far as lubrication goes, maybe try something more natural? Organic extra virgin unrefined coconut oil works wonders lol!

 

[Chantal25]

I went through this period when i questioned the Catholic’s teaching being men made but now, i truly get it that their rules are from God. The Pope always pray before making any decision and he is guided by the Holy Spirit.

If God says no, then it is good enough for me.

I understand deeply about not being made to have a large family etc… but this is something that we need to teach to our children. Are you sure, this is what you want getting married?

Abstinence isn’t a sin. Couple who don’t want any more children, can love each other without sexuality.

Bottom, line, this live is short, eternal life is for ever.

 

[The_Bucket]

We use STM too. The painful sex is caused by us not ever being able to have regular sex and due to the dryness of phase 3. We have also used lubrication, but that makes it worse. We have had it checked out.

By medical professionals? I’ll reiterate what other posters have said; this is not normal. You don’t need to have relations during the fertile period to ensure that Phase III is comfortable.

I’ll admit that I see the difference between Phase II and Phase III when my wife is not pregnant. We have to stay on our guard big time in Phase II when we’re TTA. Because the hormones can get crazy. Beginning of Phase III is usually OK as is the very end of it. Middle of Phase III is pretty dull for her, but I kind of see that as a challenge for me. Makes me have to be creative.

You know what I mean? When we were dating and engaged I had to make her feel romanced, loved, etc. without the super glue that comes with sexual relations. So I had to be creative. When she’s off the “high” of Phase II, it’s my job to be more creative to get her in the mood. Sometimes it’s impossible but other times it’s not. And when it’s not, I certainly get an extra sense of, er, accomplishment if that’s the right term

Honestly, this can be the case for women who are pregnant too. Hormones can kill a sex drive or ramp it up. In this latest pregnancy, my wife’s dealt with both situations. These ebbs and flows can be frustrating for both spouses but c’est la vie. Some of the pill’s side effects are decreased sex drive, water retention and weight gain. Hormonal contraceptive basically makes the female body act like Phase III in perpetuity. Aside from the immorality of it, I’ve always found it quite strange that the human “solution” to fertility to allow for sex on demand destroys the drive to have sex on demand.

 

[Mrc]

By medical professionals? I’ll reiterate what other posters have said; this is not normal. You don’t need to have relations during the fertile period to ensure that Phase III is comfortable.

I’ll admit that I see the difference between Phase II and Phase III when my wife is not pregnant. We have to stay on our guard big time in Phase II when we’re TTA. Because the hormones can get crazy. Beginning of Phase III is usually OK as is the very end of it. Middle of Phase III is pretty dull for her, but I kind of see that as a challenge for me. Makes me have to be creative.

You know what I mean? When we were dating and engaged I had to make her feel romanced, loved, etc. without the super glue that comes with sexual relations. So I had to be creative. When she’s off the “high” of Phase II, it’s my job to be more creative to get her in the mood. Sometimes it’s impossible but other times it’s not. And when it’s not, I certainly get an extra sense of, er, accomplishment if that’s the right term

Honestly, this can be the case for women who are pregnant too. Hormones can kill a sex drive or ramp it up. In this latest pregnancy, my wife’s dealt with both situations. These ebbs and flows can be frustrating for both spouses but c’est la vie. Some of the pill’s side effects are decreased sex drive, water retention and weight gain. Hormonal contraceptive basically makes the female body act like Phase III in perpetuity. Aside from the immorality of it, I’ve always found it quite strange that the human “solution” to fertility to allow for sex on demand destroys the drive to have sex on demand.

My wife’s cycles are normal. There it’s no doubt about it. We knew so and without even asking, it was confirmed by at least 3 of the best ( independent) gynaecologists in our country (and that’s saying a lot).

Hormonal contraceptives are just stupid. It’s amazing how something that horrible has become the norm.

Nfp utterly destroyed my wife’s sex drive. It’s a fact. I’m not going into detail. It took at least a year for mine to come right. Before we got married, it was almost impossible to abstain ( no matter when in my wife’s cycle), but we got good at it - good practice for nfp… After being married for just a few days that sexual energy vanished and now it’s completely the opposite, even in phase 2.

But as I’ve said in previous posts, nfp it’s still great and makes sense and living chastely is more important than having a sex life.

 

[Xantippe]

“After being married for just a few days that sexual energy vanished and now it’s completely the opposite, even in phase 2.”

There’s something seriously wrong here, and I don’t think it’s an NFP issue.

 

[PaulGH]

It seems as though the only difference between using nfp and using contraception is more or less sex.

On this point, I would disagree. My wife and I have had times in our marriage when we had no reason to abstain (e.g., when she was nursing an infant, and had 13 to 15 months of natural infertility), when we could be intimate whenever we wanted. We also have had times in our marriage when we have had serious reason to use NFP and have chosen to abstain on her potentially fertile days. And we have found that we are intimate about the same total number of times per month either way.

That is just one couple’s experience, but I have heard things that give me the impression that our experience is pretty typical.

 

[Mrc]

“After being married for just a few days that sexual energy vanished and now it’s completely the opposite, even in phase 2.”

There’s something seriously wrong here, and I don’t think it’s an NFP issue.

Nfp utterly destroyed my wife’s sex drive. It’s a fact. I’m not going into detail.

It is an NFP issue and there is nothing seriously wrong here.

 

[KellyPalmer]

FWIW, the choices are not just NFP or contraception. I follow the teachings of the Catholic Church and don’t do either. Simply Breastfeeding as God designed has provided natural child spacing. I know that some women become pregnant right away despite Breastfeeding, I’m just saying. Coming into the fullness of faith has been a lesson in humility and the church’s teaching in this area is a great call to holiness. Everything about God’s design of men/women/marriage/babies is!!!

Just imagine if God had the same attitude about love – that it didn’t matter…a lot of us wouldn’t be here. The teachings of the church show us what love truly is. Love can’t be changed. We have to submit to love. We have to fall into love/God. It’s easy to look at some Protestant contracepting couples from the outside and assume they must have great marriages but then if you step back and look at all the destruction the acceptance of contraception has done to our society, it’s enough to make a person depressed.