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Walking_Home
Guest
There is also this from the Church:
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PaulinVA
Guest
You do realize the sin that you are talking about is NOT have sex on a given night?Can anyone here name for me something that has a sinful nature , something other than nfp that the church classifies this way? In other words;? if something is a sin for one person, the exact same sin is not for the next person. If the will is the same, I don’t think those actions will be judged very differently by God.
You are actually trying to make it a sin to NOT do something.
“Honey, we HAVE to have sex tonight or it’s a sin.”
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
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ThePCWife
Guest
You do understand that having two pregnancies in a year was considered a negative? It’s not generous, it’s heavily linked to poor health for mom and the two births in 12 months. There’s not even time to breastfeed the kids, and the female body is biologically designed to breastfeed for several months after birth. So how is disregarding one part of female biology “generous” when it causes health problems and possible nutrition issues for infants (especially if we’re talking about the world of pre-formula)?
The Irish Catholics doing this were not judged favorably. In fact, in many cultures, trying to get your wife pregnant annually was seen as incontinent and improvident.
The Irish Catholics doing this were not judged favorably. In fact, in many cultures, trying to get your wife pregnant annually was seen as incontinent and improvident.
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Xantippe
Guest
There are times when not doing something could be a sin, but this doesn’t seem to be one of them.You do realize the sin that you are talking about is NOT have sex on a given night?
You are actually trying to make it a sin to NOT do something.
“Honey, we HAVE to have sex tonight or it’s a sin.”
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
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Xantippe
Guest
Right.There’s not even time to breastfeed the kids, and the female body is biologically designed to breastfeed for several months after birth. So how is disregarding one part of female biology “generous” when it causes health problems and possible nutrition issues for infants (especially if we’re talking about the world of pre-formula)?
I’ve previously mentioned that there’s a common cultural practice of abstinence during breastfeeding in many traditional cultures around the world.
It’s not uncommon for a new pregnancy to disrupt breastfeeding. In a pre-formula/pre-clean water world, getting pregnant again too fast could be deadly to the infant.
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ByWhatAuthority
Guest
I guess it all depends on the reasons. Is the couple (without a serious reason) refraining because they don’t want a baby??? Then thats the contraceptive mentality that makes using nfp wrong in the eyes of the church.
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ThePCWife
Guest
“Gee, I have a 60% chance of dying if I get pregnant, I don’t want another baby right now but when the children I already have are a couple years older and I can pursue more medical care, it might be possible to try for a baby and maybe get that risk down to 20%.”
Obviously the words of an evil, unsound contraceptor.
Obviously the words of an evil, unsound contraceptor.
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
Obviously they don’t want a baby. That’s why they avoid porking at certain periods. People here have given you plenty of good reasons for using NFP (including the life of the mother, for Heaven’s sake), and yet you scream “contraceptive mentality!” like some sort of sex addict who can’t bear the thought of going a few days without, and doesn’t care what he’s putting his wife or children through.I guess it all depends on the reasons. Is the couple (without a serious reason) refraining because they don’t want a baby??? Then thats the contraceptive mentality that makes using nfp wrong in the eyes of the church
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Xantippe
Guest
Bear in mind, we’re talking about sexual abstinence, which is not at all popular. We’re not talking about hot fudge sundaes.Is the couple (without a serious reason) refraining because they don’t want a baby???
When reasons for abstinence aren’t serious, you’re not going to encounter a lot of normal couples where husband and wife are in 100% agreement about abstaining. Husband and wife having strong shared views is evidence that the reason must be serious.
As a previous poster pointed out, the bias of NFP is toward Happy Fun Time. Avoiding Happy Fun Time is…not fun.
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ktmeyer
Guest
First, NFP doesn’t mean avoiding pregnancy. It means understanding your body, and the way God made it, so that you can try to have babies, avoid having babies, or just notice your body. That is good information for all women to have, so yes, it should be promoted. Knowing how your body works is a good thing!
Second, what on earth makes you think you, a 25 yr old, knows more about the real issues of large families, pregnancy, fertility, and marriage than both the couples using NFP and the Magisterium??? If anything is sinful, it’s your pride regarding this matter.
I have four children. If I hadn’t used NFP I’d easily have twice that number, possibly more. And at 41, almost 42, I’m still very fertile. Also, I have a 10 yr gap between my first and second pregnancies due to a divorce (and annulment) from a mentally unstable man. Had I not had that gap I’d have had several more children. I become fertile less than a year after giving birth. But that does NOT mean I’m physically or mentally or emotionally ready to have a kid every 18 months from age 22 when I first married until my mid forties. I trust God, but I also trust the brain he gave me and the fertility signs he created for me to use.
And had I had that many children I think my husband might have ended up having a heart attack from the stress or leaving me or worse. His student loan payment is 1K a month. We have four kids ranging in age from 18 years to 9 months. Honestly, at this point it is less purposely NFP and more we are just too tired to procreate, lol. But to imply or state that I’m sinning because I’m not trying to have another baby in my forties, and yes, having intercourse when I’m fertile is TRYING to have a baby…I’ve conceived the first time, every time I’ve tried, it’s ridiculous.
Second, what on earth makes you think you, a 25 yr old, knows more about the real issues of large families, pregnancy, fertility, and marriage than both the couples using NFP and the Magisterium??? If anything is sinful, it’s your pride regarding this matter.
I have four children. If I hadn’t used NFP I’d easily have twice that number, possibly more. And at 41, almost 42, I’m still very fertile. Also, I have a 10 yr gap between my first and second pregnancies due to a divorce (and annulment) from a mentally unstable man. Had I not had that gap I’d have had several more children. I become fertile less than a year after giving birth. But that does NOT mean I’m physically or mentally or emotionally ready to have a kid every 18 months from age 22 when I first married until my mid forties. I trust God, but I also trust the brain he gave me and the fertility signs he created for me to use.
And had I had that many children I think my husband might have ended up having a heart attack from the stress or leaving me or worse. His student loan payment is 1K a month. We have four kids ranging in age from 18 years to 9 months. Honestly, at this point it is less purposely NFP and more we are just too tired to procreate, lol. But to imply or state that I’m sinning because I’m not trying to have another baby in my forties, and yes, having intercourse when I’m fertile is TRYING to have a baby…I’ve conceived the first time, every time I’ve tried, it’s ridiculous.
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Xantippe
Guest
This is a very important point.yes, having intercourse when I’m fertile is TRYING to have a baby…
When you know your cycles and your fertility and infertility signs, there’s no unknowing it–even without officially charting/doing NFP, you know more or less where you are and what the probabilities are of conception on any particular day.
For couples who have that information, having marital relations during fertile times is trying to get pregnant.
Edited to add: I also liked this:
When we middle aged parents just don’t get round to it/are too tired/want to sleep instead is that supposed to be some sort of sin?Honestly, at this point it is less purposely NFP and more we are just too tired to procreate, lol.
Is there an ideal marital relations schedule that we’re supposed to be living up to?
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It’s not offensive…just completely inaccurate. Contraception implies actively preventing conception.I understand how the use of the word
“contraception” is offensive. So for the sake of harmony we’ll call it “a method used to prevent conception”.
Lots of good things can be misused. Perhaps you could share some of this “promo propaganda” you keep going on about?This is exactly what the problem is! NFP is something that can be misused. Yet that is not mentioned in the promo propaganda I’ve seen. Rather is all about how effective and how much healthier it is than abc and morally sound and approved by the Church.
BUT if it’s true that it can be “misused” than why is the church so quiet about that??? If NFP has a potential to be sinful, at the very least the Church should warn couples about the danger of falling into a contraceptive mentality
The Church doesn’t make a magesterial statement about everything that can be misused. It sets guidelines for certain and then it’s up to the faithful to follow them.
The Church specifically tells couples that they need to be unselfish and discerning in their use of NFP and also in deciding to try to conceive.
Your comment about the Church not teaching that parents should be prudent when having babies is ridiculous. The fact that you believe that prudence is not an appropriate attitude with which to approach having children tells me all I need to know about your attitude.
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ByWhatAuthority
Guest
I think what I asked was; when did the pre nfp church teach that we should be “prudent” in determining our family size? It’s a question that I already know the answer to, it never did! It was always taught that children are blessing from God. Not something for us to determine the amount He gives us. Children are gifts. Unless it’s a serous reason, it is not for us to say, “no” to God. As married couples we are to trust God in this. We are to accept children lovingly from God. Not micro manage what we think we can handle.Your comment about the Church not teaching that parents should be prudent when having babies is ridiculous.
You said the Church said we are to be “unselfish”. Many couples don’t know what that means. Because the church has failed to provide guidelines for something that could lead to a sinful, contraceptive mentality.
This basically amounts to saying that the Church is in error. I don’t know what you mean by pre-NFP church because abstinence has always been acceptable. The Church merely endorsed NFP when it developed as a method, as a moral way for catholics to manage their fertility if they needed to.
Your view does essentially amount to pop out as many as possible and don’t worry because God will sort you out. It’s extremely simplistic.
Your view does essentially amount to pop out as many as possible and don’t worry because God will sort you out. It’s extremely simplistic.
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Mi_Rose
Guest
I know Catholics who used the Rythm Method in the forties and fifties. Also separate bedrooms. Both methods were approved by their priests.
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Mi_Rose
Guest
Catholic Education Resource Center
The generation of Catholics who relied on calendar rhythm for their family planning method in the 50’s and 60’s often experienced extreme frustration and a good number of "rhythm babies
Before Vatican Ii
The generation of Catholics who relied on calendar rhythm for their family planning method in the 50’s and 60’s often experienced extreme frustration and a good number of "rhythm babies
Before Vatican Ii
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TheLittleLady
Guest
I could be uncharitable and list every website/internet Catholic you are reading. I encourage you to step out of that sound chamber. It is doing you no good.Then thats the contraceptive mentality that makes using nfp wrong in the eyes of the church.
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Laura_N
Guest
How do you know many couples don’t know what that means? You have no idea what’s going on in the minds of other couples, and you’re just assuming the worst of any family you see that doesn’t have 10 kids. So maybe quit worrying so much about other people’s decisions about THEIR FAMILIES, because you clearly can’t seem to do it without being judgmental.You said the Church said we are to be “unselfish”. Many couples don’t know what that means. Because the church has failed to provide guidelines for something that could lead to a sinful, contraceptive mentality.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
You keep setting up a false idea.
The Eucharist is the source and summit of our lives, yes?
The Eucharist is the greatest blessing that God gives each of us, right?
Holy Mother Church, in Her wisdom, limits the number of times we can receive the Eucharist in a day.
Setting limits on something “UNblessing-ify” something, in fact, it makes certain that we do not take that blessing for granted or that we understand how precious it really is.
The Eucharist is the source and summit of our lives, yes?
The Eucharist is the greatest blessing that God gives each of us, right?
Holy Mother Church, in Her wisdom, limits the number of times we can receive the Eucharist in a day.
Setting limits on something “UNblessing-ify” something, in fact, it makes certain that we do not take that blessing for granted or that we understand how precious it really is.
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