I never said it was - I was just giving our experience trying to use NFP since the poster was wanting to find out about this. But if you’re using NFP to keep from conceiving, then your wife ending up pregnant will be of great concern - for us we had/have just reasons to not need to get pregnant -
Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying, but the whole point of using NFP to “space pregnancies” or put off pregnancy until a better time, however you’d like to phrase it - one of the basic ideas is that you make sure that you DON"T have sex while fertile and if you feel up to it, having sex while not fertile. It almost sounds like you’re just against people using NFP to put off pregnancy. Not sure I agree about having sex when not fertile being the 'same thinking behind the pro abort crowd…"
I agree, the contraceptive mentality is still widespread among NFP users. Many use the same “excuses” to avoid pregnancy as others use to abort I.e: no financial stability, no college funds, debt, not ready yet, still want to advance in education / career etc. If this mentality existed before contraception, most of us would not be born.
In ryecroft’s defense (after going round and round on this topic with her previously)… I honestly don’t think she had solid NFP instruction… and that’s a shame all around.
I’m sorry, but I don’t know what could make you think we didn’t have a solid background with NFP - after attending two classes, staying in touch with our instructors and getting in touch with the Pope Paul Institute - yes, we had plenty of instruction (I will grant NOTHING was said about multiple ovulations with the first class we took - I went over our notes from the session and it was something we were told not to worry about as it happened so rarely- found out that wasen’t true) - we even did the online course after our first “oops” while going with the 2nd round of Instruction. I and my husband are WELL VERSED in the CCL - (these are the one’s we took - but on my own, I have attended instruction on other methods) - no, there’s no mistake - I’ve said this before - even the Institute has given me the reasons of “God just must have wanted you to be pregnant” (which I can’t imagine since both of those ended without a baby in my arms. If I gave any information that led anyone to believe I was not well instructed (my bad as I did want to be truthful about the multiple - not just 2nd oulation), I apologize, but we have been instruced AD NAUSEUM - not everything works for every person. I’m not saying NFP won’t work for others, but the point of this was to get information from all sides on how NFP worked for various couples. I think NFP is a GREAT idea but you have to be willing to deal with the consequences of finding it doesn’t work for you. With health concerns, until the doctors o.k. it that’s just something we’re not willing to chance. I just feel bad for people when they see the “99% plus” success rate (for preventing pregnancy) and then they go to the classes, chart and wind up with two lines. My best friend had this happen again and now they’re having to get public assistance to help out (not the end of the world, but nothing they EVER thought they’d have to do). Don’t get me wrong we’re greatful to have another God child, but not greatful for everything she had to go through with this pregnancy.
I did want to say, many of those “excuses” as you call them seem fairly “just” reasons not to put off conceiving (perhaps not the no college fund) - but debt and no financial stability - those seem like very good reasons - lets face it the likeliness of your financial stability improving after forking out lots of money for a baby is not very likely. If the Church had wanted it to be only for life and death or health reasons then I think they would have chosen a much stronger word than “just” reasons or specified. But I would like to say, I understand what you’re saying, but what I don’t understand is that if many of you believe the reasons are so important, then why didn’t the Church come out with a list of reasons? My guess is because they felt it should be left up to the individual family and their conceinces.
It still sounds like some confusion. If you were trained in the STM by CCLI, they would be the group to get in touch with.
Can you see how this quickly boils down to “poor people should not have babies”?
Actually, we were encouraged to get in touch with the institute prior to being “officicially trained” in the Cheighton method.(I had been trained in the Billings method, which I k now is not the same as Creighton, but it was simliar and had later gone through another course with the Creighton) We had been instructed (to learn all we could after the first ‘oops’ on how to watch the mucus and my blood flow) - but yes, after the first, we were able to send our charting to the institute and yes, they did give us their opinion. I can safely say that after the 1st unplanned situation, that the only way we were ever going to attempt using any form of NFP again was to be familiar with each tracking system. We tracked my temperature, my mucus, my moods even - (we actually came up with a program for this - tracking- before we realized there were some just about as in depth) - yes we did get with CCL after the 1st because we were not happy after feeling we’d done everything we could. Then after coming on here and sharing my experience a number of years ago (and prior to that sharing it with some friends of ours) - we were told to get with the “institue” - explained our situation and send copys of I believe the 3 months before (either 3 or 4 I don’t exactly remember) - but it was the same that we had shown to those who had worked with us from CCL. The institue did give their opinion and I’ve stated it.
Those are your word not mine - and I didn’t say my beliefs were the same as others - but I really believe if the Church had wanted specific rules regarding this, they would have put them out there instead of of leaving it up to the families. It’s neither my place nor yours to say whether someone’s reasoning to be open to another pregnancy or want to put it off is right or wrong - if the Church isn’t going to judge on this account I hardly see how anyone else could find themselves more equal to this task regardless of how you or I might feel. This is something that needs to be prayed about and your concience needs to play a part in. If you and your family want another pregnancy (and both spouses are in agreement on this) then that’s wonderful, but I see nothing wrong with someone saying “I can’t financially handle another child/pregnancy” or “we’re not ready to bring our first child into the world yet because we don’t feel we can provide well enough for her/him” - I personally believe the Church has been wise with what they have said and haven’t said - I don’t think it’s possible to put out rules that would apply for every family or even the majority of families.
How wrong you and your spouse were? Or how wrong it is to use NFP to avoid?If someone could ever show me one single instance from Scripture or the lives of the Saints where God told a married couple to wait to have kids… for years I have asked, no one can show me. God did curse people by not giving them kids.
I know I came up with so many good reasons to use NFP to avoid for 20 years. Now I see how wrong we were.
I guess we could go that way. But it seems a little extreme to me.The life and death situations, such as yours, are rare (thanks be to God). Your reasons are not mine.How wrong you and your spouse were? Or how wrong it is to use NFP to avoid?
I only ask because I like the fact that I am around to raise my son. And if I got pregnant again, my life would be in jeopardy. To say nothing of the only 27% chance of me carrying a child to term.
I am guessing that in biblical times, they didn’t know about my condition and women and babies just died.
:hug1:
And who are you lumping in with your statement?
Can you share some more of your story?
So instead of simply abstaining during my fertile time, you feel that I should abstain until when?
I can afford another child. We have enough money to have another child. I would love to have another child. Maybe you should talk to my GYN and explain to her, an NFP only doctor, why I should have another child. I am sure you know more about my condition than she does. PM me and I can give you her number. Of course you might want to read up on a bicornuate uterus, one ovary and one tube. But I am sure you can figure it all out.
So now not only should I abstain forever, EVERYONE should abstain unless you are fertile?:bigyikes: So that means that once a woman goes through menopause, she should no longer have relations with her husband. Also, a pregnant woman should not have relations. Right.