NFP-the positive side

[Em_in_FL]

I would actually like to apologize to everyone. I do not mean to bring others down and feel I am only coming across as a complainer. Nor am I looking for sympathy or such. It is very much a faith journey, and I’m searching to see where others are along this mysterious path…

God bless to all.

Don’t apologize. It’s okay to have a difficult time, but know that God’s listening to your struggles.

Pray specifically for this area of your life. Your intentions are good.
Pray for a radical change… whatever it takes to enhance your marriage life. The Holy Spirit will not let you down.

 

[johntkd]

So on that positive note I being with my hubby -the way God intended.

this is one of the quotes i see so often and have such problems with about NFP.

I see all to often people saying I am open to life I use NFP.
therefore i am a good Catholic, then in another sentence i see same person saying well NFP is as effective as the pill.
so which is it open to life or using something as effective as the pill to NOT CONCEIVE,
to not want to conceive is to not be open to life plain and simple fact.
also I do not believe God Intended spouse to deny each other so as not to reproduce, I believe that is a man made intention but by using our own fertility as a tool man has made it look “proper”

I remember reading “go forth and multiply” not, "go forth and use NFP to not multiply when you think you are not ready,not able to afford,just want to wait etc.

ON a positive note: its not known to cause cancer in women, dont cause abortion,and dont cost money getting other people rich,and if both spouses agree on it it can be a wonderful thing…

 

[Em_in_FL]

this is one of the quotes i see so often and have such problems with about NFP.

I see all to often people saying I am open to life I use NFP.
therefore i am a good Catholic, then in another sentence i see same person saying well NFP is as effective as the pill.
so which is it open to life or using something asa effective as the pill to NOT CONCEIVE,
to not want to conceive is to not be open to life plain and simple fact.
** also I do not believe God Intended spouse to deny each other so as not to reproduce**, I beleieve that is a man made intention but by using our own fertility as a tool man has made it look “proper”

I remember reading “go forth and multiply” not, "go forth and use NFP to not multiply when you think you are not ready,not able to afford,just want to wait etc.

. oh well

There’s no “denying each other” in NFP… it’s a mutual conversation based on data… that’s it.
Not wanting to conceive and not being open to life are very different.
Our wants are not always God’s wants… using NFP allows God total control while maintaining the gift of free will that God granted us.

 

[johntkd]

There’s no “denying each other” in NFP… it’s a mutual conversation based on data… that’s it.
Not wanting to conceive and not being open to life are very different.
Our wants are not always God’s wants… using NFP allows God total control while maintaining the gift of free will that God granted us.

based on data? thats it? so all these men complaining about lack of intimacy due to NFP is over data? so “data” is controlling life in an NFP marriage? thats rediculous and actually makes it even cheaper sounding, kind of computerish…

I wont even address how people seem to think God cannot over come a man made method (ABC) if its in his will.
because i believe even those using ABC if meant by God to become parents will.

Just same i feel about NFP if its meant to be it will be if not wont.
Maybe I am just more trusting in the belief God will not give us more than we can handle.

I know the “Open to life” arguement is one neither of us will win.
I see ABC as closed I see NFP as closed as well, with exception of the few that actually use to try and “help” God along in conception.
its an accepted means of birth control by the Church, that should be good enough reason to use if you dont want kids at a certain point,

 

[rayne89]

this is one of the quotes i see so often and have such problems with about NFP.

I see all to often people saying I am open to life I use NFP.
therefore i am a good Catholic, then in another sentence i see same person saying well NFP is as effective as the pill.
so which is it open to life or using something as effective as the pill to NOT CONCEIVE,
to not want to conceive is to not be open to life plain and simple fact.
also I do not believe God Intended spouse to deny each other so as not to reproduce, I believe that is a man made intention but by using our own fertility as a tool man has made it look “proper”

I remember reading “go forth and multiply” not, "go forth and use NFP to not multiply when you think you are not ready,not able to afford,just want to wait etc.

ON a positive note: its not known to cause cancer in women, dont cause abortion,and dont cost money getting other people rich,and if both spouses agree on it it can be a wonderful thing…

John by using NFP I am open to life -mine . (That was a joke). If I get pregnant I could not survive and most likely the baby would not either. I am open to God’s will. He gave us the church and the church directs us that NFP can be used when there is serious reason. I still could get pregnant. Granted the chances are small but I could.

We have sex with no barrier, no chemical, no sterilization - when we chose to have sex it is exactly the way God intended.

 

[Em_in_FL]

based on data? thats it? so all these men complaining about lack of intimacy due to NFP is over data? so “data” is controlling life in an NFP marriage? thats rediculous and actually makes it even cheaper sounding, kind of computerish…

I wont even address how people seem to think God cannot over come a man made method (ABC) if its in his will.
because i believe even those using ABC if meant by God to become parents will.

Just same i feel about NFP if its meant to be it will be if not wont.
Maybe I am just more trusting in the belief God will not give us more than we can handle.

I know the “Open to life” arguement is one neither of us will win.
I see ABC as closed I see NFP as closed as well, with exception of the few that actually use to try and “help” God along in conception.

Yup… that’s all it is!
All natural DATA… body temperatures and mucous signs and cervical positions… just data!

Use it as you wish!
(to avoid or try to conceive)…

That’s the beauty of the gift of free will!
The trick is to use it prayerfully so that your will is aligned with God’s.

 

[johntkd]

John by using NFP I am open to life -mine . (That was a joke). If I get pregnant I could not survive and most likely the baby would not either. I am open to God’s will. He gave us the church and the church directs us that NFP can be used when there is serious reason. I still could get pregnant. Granted the chances are small but I could.

We have sex with no barrier, no chemical, no sterilization - when we chose to have sex it is exactly the way God intended.

I understand exactly where you are coming from, I do not agree nor disagree with NFP, what I cant stand is when people try to hide the Fact its Birth control, Plain and simple nothing extra nothing less.

can add any play on words or terms you want but its still that same thing…

 

[Em_in_FL]

I understand exactly where you are coming from, I do not agree nor disagree with NFP, what I cant stand is when people try to hide the Fact its Birth control, Plain and simple nothing extra nothing less.

can add any play on words or terms you want but its still that same thing…

Just in case you need a refresher on the catechism…

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.htm

2370
Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159

    Thus the innate LANGUAGE that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory LANGUAGE, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160

 

[johntkd]

That’s the beauty of the gift of free will!
The trick is to use it prayerfully so that your will is aligned with God’s.

Ok on that note what is the “will”
and wouldnt that will also be the same if were not using NFP?
could use prayer method pray to not conceive if not ready and forget body temp,mucus and cervical positions, and just totally rely that its truely Gods will?

 

[Em_in_FL]

Ok on that note what is the “will”
and wouldnt that will also be the same if were not using NFP?

True…
Not using NFP is not a problem!

Just don’t make judgements on those that do, nor define the circumstances for it’s use.
NFP is NOT birth control.
NFP is a private choice between the married couple and God.

 

[johntkd]

namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. .

and abstinence is “giving ones self totally”? not hardly its denial of each other every month in avoidence of a possible consequence, where is the trust?where is the belief we wont be given more then we can handle, that quote was a perfect example of a play on words and terms words such as “total and giving”

If both spouses are in total agreement and have no reservations, hardships etc then i agree it falls into this quote, however if one is not happy, in total agreement,or is having difficulties then its denial from one to another and not total giving of ones self.
its withholding ones self out of selfishness of not wanting to bring another life into the world…

I should say not only is this forum filled with posts from men about NFP and how they dont like it, but also filled with posts about how one spouse can get the other to accept it or force the issue, is that a total giving of ones self to another? both spouses are wrong in those situations they denying each other are they not? marriage supposed to be not being in charge of own body, we supposed to give control to our significant other.well example i just used both spouses are wrong and are not following the marriage rules…

 

[johntkd]

True…
Not using NFP is not a problem!

Just don’t make judgements on those that do, nor define the circumstances for it’s use.
NFP is NOT birth control.
NFP is a private choice between the married couple and God.

I am not making judgements but I have a question for you how is NFP not birth control 4 priests have not been able to answer that can you?

is it used to “space out births”? control
is it used to not conceive? control
is it used to plan conception? control

and its not “birth control” why or how

and yes i am very serious here not trying to be arguementative
but can anyone give me some solid facts it dont help when addressing people using ABC to say NFP is not birth control because it printed in a book or said by someone that its not
with no facts to back it

 

[Em_in_FL]

and abstinence is “giving ones self totally”? not hardly its denial of each other every month in avoidence of a possible consequence, where is the trust?where is the belief we wont be given more then we can handle, that quote was a perfect example of a play on words and terms words such as “total and giving”

If both spouses are in total agreement and have no reservations, hardships etc then i agree it falls into this quote, however if one is not happy, in total agreement,or is having difficulties then its denial from one to another and not total giving of ones self.
its withholding ones self out of selfishness of not wanting to bring another life into the world…

I should say not only is this forum filled with posts from men about NFP and how they dont like it, but also filled with posts about how one spouse can get the other to accept it or force the issue, is that a total giving of ones self to another? both spouses are wrong in those situations they denying each other are they not? marriage supposed to be not being in charge of own body, we supposed to give control to our significant other.well example i just used both spouses are wrong and are not following the marriage rules…

If there is disagreement in a marriage then that’s the root issue… not NFP.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I am not making judgements but I have a question for you how is NFP not birth control 4 priests have not been able to answer that can you?

is it used to “space out births”? control
is it used to not conceive? control
is it used to plan conception? control

and its not “birth control” why or how

and yes i am very serious here not trying to be arguementative
but can anyone give me some solid facts it dont help when addressing people using ABC to say NFP is not birth control because it printed in a book or said by someone that its not
with no facts to back it

Okay… I understand your confusion.
In the general sense of the terminology… fine, NFP is a way of regulating births. Yes.

Is that against the teachings of the Catholic Church?
NO.

Again… from the catechism…

2370
Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159

    Thus the innate LANGUAGE that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory LANGUAGE, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160

 

[johntkd]

If there is disagreement in a marriage then that’s the root issue… not NFP.

where did that come from?
lets not side step the response,
when the disagreement is on using NFP or not that is the root issue, is it not?

 

[johntkd]

ok i dont think i am ever going to get it, I do see a lot of valid points got a private message that made some sense as well,

but i have seen posts over the year, talked to people, etc and I just cant see where its a total giving of ones self to a spouse when they physically move to another room in the house for given period of time, to avoid intimacy, or deny a wanting spouse intimacy, or force ones belief on a non believeing spouse. the list goes on and on, I just cannot see total and giving in these situations,

even the one poster who posted spouse said he likes the phase cause it gives him a break to me thats a selfish type reason to want to see that phase come up…maybe i just looking way to deep…

 

[Em_in_FL]

even the one poster who posted spouse said he likes the phase cause it gives him a break to me thats a selfish type reason to want to see that phase come up…maybe i just looking way to deep…

Actually that was me… and my husband says it totally in humor.

My point was that some couples can use NFP without feeling “denied” enough intimacy, which is a very common misunderstanding.
Often people are fearful of NFP because of the word “abstain”… and I want to share my story so that others aren’t fearful of it.
NFP doesn’t FORCE abstainance on couples…

 

[Nicole]

I think it was an awesome idea to start this thread. What can I say, because of learning and following the Church’s teachings on sexuality, I feel totally free.

We are a vas reversal family, so for us, it was painful to have erred so grievously in our decision making. It was a HUGE blessing to be able to get the reversal and maybe that will always color our experiences. But, for now, we feel like things are wonderful this way and would never go back.

I know a lot of people struggle with NFP and I would never try to minimize that. But, I always say, for me, the struggle was before NFP.

 

[Jacafamala]

I understand exactly where you are coming from, I do not agree nor disagree with NFP, what I cant stand is when people try to hide the Fact its Birth control, Plain and simple nothing extra nothing less.

can add any play on words or terms you want but its still that same thing…

Nope, nope, nope: it’s not birth control. I totally disagree: it’s different from ABC. The difference? No sex act. No act, no remote possibility of a baby. You could say,” Well you choose not to have sex, and that blocks a baby." Yes, but so could a single person who decides not to have sex. Are they being selfish? No, because they have serious reasons to abstain: it would be wrong for them to have sex. You could say the same thing about a husband and wife who need to postpone a pregnancy for serious reasons: it would be wrong. If you follow that “ABC = NFP” road to it’s logical conclusion, then sex is only for procreation and nothing else.

Back when my dear husband and I used ABC, I began to think about all the babies we were not having because of a barrier. We were literally blocking them from existence. I no longer feel that way if we are abstaining: because there is no seed spilled. The seed is actually sacred, so is the act–at least I think it is.
Pax Christi,
Ann

 

[Jacafamala]

I think it was an awesome idea to start this thread. What can I say, because of learning and following the Church’s teachings on sexuality, I feel totally free.

We are a vas reversal family, so for us, it was painful to have erred so grievously in our decision making. It was a HUGE blessing to be able to get the reversal and maybe that will always color our experiences. But, for now, we feel like things are wonderful this way and would never go back.

I know a lot of people struggle with NFP and I would never try to minimize that. But, I always say, for me, the struggle was before NFP.

Nicole, that is so awesome!
Pax Christi,
Ann