NFP when Caesarean section is anticipated

[anon65111186]

Again, you are opining on something that is seriously is none of your business.

By what standard is it or is it not my business? Because you say so?

She is my sister, not yours, and she is danger of losing her soul if she uses contraception against Church teaching. If she died in the act or in the state of no grace, then she will be lost forever and I’ll never see her again, not even in heaven.

So I think I have a responsibility to encourage her to get out of danger and to do the right thing.

I don’t know you, but it may be that you disagree with the Church teaching as well, and you may be in the same boat. I would encourage you to pray for yourself and for me, and for my sister. Prayer is the first step to receiving graces and being saved from the Devil.

Why else would you make it your business to tell me to mind my own business? I think you are trying to defend your own self from use of contraception. Am I wrong?

Believe it as much as you believe your eyes when you see the sun in the sky. The use of contraception in marriage is always 100% wrong, no doubt to it whatsoever. And whoever does so, sins. The culpability is in how much they know and agree to it.

I am certain many souls have gone to hell by using contraception and thus rejecting God. Don’t choose hell, choose heaven.

 

[TechieGuy]

Suppose, if there is a maternal contraindication for natural birth, say for example, as in a case of android pelvis, can it be a just reason to practice NFP indefinitely though caesarean section is an alternate option?

I truly hope that OP is asking this as a hypothetical question about the licitness of continually practicing NFP and not because he thinks strangers on the internet know better than he and his wife how they should handle their reproduction…

 

[Whitney]

I also kind of get the feeling the Church tends to be not too fussy about telling people what they should do in extramarital sexual acts, probably because that would be a pointless endeavor.

I have read several threads about premarital sex in teenagers and men with AIDS in Africa using condoms, etc. I feel like this should have come up on those threads.

 

[Whitney]

She is my sister, not yours, and she is danger of losing her soul if she uses contraception against Church teaching. If she died in the act or in the state of no grace, then she will be lost forever and I’ll never see her again, not even in heaven.

Does the person not have to agree that what they are doing is “truly evil” for this to be true according to RCC teaching? Sounds like she thinks that what she is doing is the most moral choice given the circumstances.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I don’t know you, but it may be that you disagree with the Church teaching as well, and you may be in the same boat. I would encourage you to pray for yourself and for me, and for my sister. Prayer is the first step to receiving graces and being saved from the Devil.

I am agnostic so my views on the issue of contraception don’t really matter here. However, to use it or not is a private decision between partners. This is the problem. Sometimes it seems like some Catholics have no concept of reasonable boundaries when it comes to this issue and others like it. It has been a real problem in my extended family in the past. I can see you aren’t going to be convinced this can cause you familial problems down the road. So we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[anon65111186]

Sounds like she thinks that what she is doing is the most moral choice given the circumstances.

I didn’t have any indication she thinks it is moral, just that it is what she wants to do and fits her own desires.

 

[anon65111186]

However, to use it or not is a private decision between partners.

I’d like to agree with you that it is just their decision, and therefore the morality of their act somehow gets erased, but that goes against my conscience and reason. When you apply that to other things that most people agree is evil, the logic breaks down.

Take for example when you replace “use contraception” with other evils of varying degrees of gravity.

To lie to eachother is a private decision between partners.
To abuse one another is a private decision between partners.
To rob a bank is a private decision between partners.
To murder their own children is a private decision between partners. (which you see in the news at disturbing regularity)
To beat up someone they don’t like is a private decision between partners.

Sometimes it seems like some Catholics have no concept of reasonable boundaries when it comes to this issue and others like it.

What is your concept of reasonable boundaries? I just explained

1. She brought it up and disclosed her decision to use
2. It was on my wedding day
3. She was trying to justify her position in using it, and recommending it to us when we disagreed
4. She caused the “familial problem” by broaching the issue

Sounds like she doesn’t meet the definition of reasonable or boundaries. And well, do you think you meet the criteria of “reasonable boundaries” in arguing with me about my family who are none of your business?

 

[QwertyGirl]

To lie to eachother is a private decision between partners.

To abuse one another is a private decision between partners.

To rob a bank is a private decision between partners.

To murder their own children is a private decision between partners. (which you see in the news at disturbing regularity)

To beat up someone they don’t like is a private decision between partners.

None of these violent actions you mention are equivalent to using contraception. Again, as I stated in my previous post, we will need to agree to disagree with regards to the morality of contraception.

What is your concept of reasonable boundaries? I just explained

She brought it up and disclosed her decision to use
It was on my wedding day
She was trying to justify her position in using it, and recommending it to us when we disagreed
She caused the “familial problem” by broaching the issue

I would recommend learning how to say “Not interested” with family when they try to manipulate the family with this type of behavior. If she was recommending you use contraception, you could just say “No thank you.”

Sounds like she doesn’t meet the definition of reasonable or boundaries. And well, do you think you meet the criteria of “reasonable boundaries” in arguing with me about my family who are none of your business?

You are the one who posted your personal business on a public forum, of which the purpose is public discussion about issues posted.

Just because your sister may not understand or respect the concept of boundaries it doesn’t mean you should follow suit.

 

[Kei]

I do find it true we are sometimes very open about everything.

 

[anon65111186]

You are the one who posted your personal business on a public forum, of which the purpose is public discussion about issues posted.

Just because your sister may not understand or respect the concept of boundaries it doesn’t mean you should follow suit.

Fair enough, I didn’t want to be involved or know what her private sex life was, I was just posting about that because I wondering if other Catholics had run into something similar and knew the best way according to Church teaching to handle it now that it was dropped in my lap.

I would recommend learning how to say “Not interested” with family when they try to manipulate the family with this type of behavior. If she was recommending you use contraception, you could just say “No thank you.”

If only that were the only factor and so simple. Anyhow, I did.

None of these violent actions you mention are equivalent to using contraception. Again, as I stated in my previous post, we will need to agree to disagree with regards to the morality of contraception.

I didn’t claim they were equivalent, each one isn’t even equivalent to the others. My point is they are evils that most reasonable people can agree are wrong.

Why contraception is the exception and not an evil is an argument you have to make, perhaps not here but on a different thread. Of course if you were never Catholic, then I can see how you might think that, society and many non-Catholics agree with you. Doesn’t make it right to Catholics.

I think rationally, the phrase “agree to disagree” is a misnomer and never really happens. Nomatter the disagreement, nobody wants disagreement, but agreement. Agreement is good, but disagreement is bad.

I will just ask you to consider praying to the God who made you, even if you’re not sure about the whole business of prayer.

God loves you!

 

[QwertyGirl]

No worries. I pray all the time. Being agnostic doesn’t preclude the ability to pray.

 

[anon65111186]

Alright, last question then, agnostic means you don’t know if God exists, or believe he can’t be known, so how does your agnosticism work?

 

[QwertyGirl]

Have no knowledge or proof that a God exists, but choose to believe that one of some sort does, most likely.

At least that is how it works for me.

 

[Anicette]

If the couple live in a area where high quality health care and c-sections are available, and c-section the only alternative, there is no reason to abstain from children.

There is no limit for c-sections…

But there is a time limit between a c-section and a VBAC. But this is not your question.

 

[paperwight]

There is no limit for c-sections…

.

I thought the limit was three safely. More than three, the uterus might rupture because of damage done by the previous cutting.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I would recommend learning how to say “Not interested” with family when they try to manipulate the family with this type of behavior. If she was recommending you use contraception, you could just say “No thank you.”

Or “None of your business”!!

 

[rbhjohnson]

Im late to this but hey ill answer anyway.

I am 30. Mom of 4 ALL csections. Everything went every time. My husband amd I do NFP but im lazy so we use the ladycomp.

Its life changing. Ladycomp.com rxmedical

 

[Anicette]

It is no longer true. C-sections are high risk births,compared to natural births, even for the first.

So, if the mother have 4, 5 or 6 or more children, doctors will do C-sections. What else?

But C-sections conditionned the future obstetrical of the mother. More than one C-section, most of doctors will performed an planned C-section because of the risk of uterine rupture (not very high, but higher).

And of course, there is more risks with multiple C-sections, than just for one.

It is often advised to wait a certain time between two births…

But what is more important is to wait a minimum delay between a unique C-section and a future V-bac. Otherwise, the mother will automatically go to C-section.

 

[rbhjohnson]

Hi

Have 4 kids under 4. They are all c sections.
My doctor told me everything has a risk and explained it like this:

An emergency C is most dangerous because problem EXISTED to cause the csection… It isnt the Csection that is riskier its the circumstances.

A Vbac is the most dangerous because not only are you adding risk BUT your chances for an emergency C cection are extremly high.

A birth is usually safe but comes with risk (but so does driving, flying, etc… Lol)

A planned csection is the safest possible route IF YOU NEED one because a problem is identified and controlled.

The level of risk of infection is the same for all.

 

[Anicette]

Yes. But but even a planned c-section is more dangerous than a natural birth. There is more risk of hemorragy for the mother, hysterectomy and a lot of more risk of respiratory problems for the child. Just three exemples.

It is an argument use by some obstericians in some countries how do not like special births such as V-bac, or natural births for twins, etc. Or sometimes a lack of technical knowledge.

And a Vbac is better if it possible (and it is usually not done with 2 children in 2 years). It also prevent the mother to have only C-sections in the future, and perhaps a damage uterus that can put her at risk for the future pregnancies, or limit her number of children.