Nice guys finish last belief

[LilyElain]

I even remember the first time I thought “I could marry this guy” b/c I knew on top of everything else, he would protect me. We were at a club and some wierd dude was sort of hassling me…following me around…stuff like that. As we left, this guy goes, “hey baby, you leav’n with him…” and he sort of grabbed my arm. In like this freakish flash of a second, my (now) husband, grabbed the guy by the collar, pushed him up against the wall and goes, “ENOUGH!” And as soon as he said it, he let him go, turned around and we walked away! I was like, “Aaah, no way that just happened!” I had never seen him like that before, and I’ve only seen him like that once since (longer story). But it wasn’t a Billy Bad-A** maneuver. It was just him being him. Being “nice” - protecting me. And now that I think about it, I guess he was last. The “last” guy I ever dated.
In God’s time people, in God’s time…

Wow, he is a keeper!

I was thinking about this the other day…been quietly following as well…
But this story was the very thing I was thinking about…I believe the nice guys just need something to defend and care for. They are still guys through and through…just on the nice side. Which is not bad at all. However if you give them a reason ( insult or harass their lady, family…etc.) they will pull a “bad boy” nice guy move…for a good reason. If fact that shows that they are more worth it because they feel they do not have to prove anything and put on a show…only if it is necessary…

 

[kelleyclip]

Wow, he is a keeper!

I was thinking about this the other day…been quietly following as well…
But this story was the very thing I was thinking about…I believe the nice guys just need something to defend and care for. They are still guys through and through…just on the nice side. Which is not bad at all. However if you give them a reason ( insult or harass their lady, family…etc.) they will pull a “bad boy” nice guy move…for a good reason. If fact that shows that they are more worth it because they feel they do not have to prove anything and put on a show…only if it is necessary…

Defending loved one’s (family, girlfriend etc.) should be part of the “nice guy” package. In my opinion, there’s no such thing as a nice guy without the courage to be a man.

 

[LilyElain]

Defending loved one’s (family, girlfriend etc.) should be part of the “nice guy” package. In my opinion, there’s no such thing as a nice guy without the courage to be a man.

I agree! I guess that is the point I was trying to make while rambling on…

 

[TedDC]

For most nice girls physical appearance is not at the top of the list. I have many other first priorities to worry about lol! Most guys that somehow get the hot girls have more confidence then sex appeal. Confidence and personal strength attract girls like there’s no tomorrow.

Weak little runts like me have learned, through years of hard experience, that womens’ perception of mens’ confidence and personal strength are intimately linked with physical appearance. A man with a severely receding chin or other physical markers of character defects will never be seen as strong, no matter what his personality may be.

 

[kelleyclip]

Weak little runts like me have learned, through years of hard experience, that women’s’ perception of means’ confidence and personal strength are intimately linked with physical appearance. A man with a severely receding chin or other physical markers of character defects will never be seen as strong, no matter what his personality may be.

I understand the chin issue. The right side of my jaw is longer than my left side. This has caused my teeth to move in a very uncomfortable position (I actually have an appointment to start braces tomorrow). My reason for telling you this, is to simply say we’re not perfect. I get it, I’m right there with you. If a guy isn’t what most would call attractive, he can make up in other places. I’ve seen some very buff ugly dudes that still get the girl. If a girl refuses to give an hour of her time to learn how confident a guy is without having a models face, she doesn’t deserve him.

 

[chevalier]

Wow, he is a keeper!

I was thinking about this the other day…been quietly following as well…
But this story was the very thing I was thinking about…I believe the nice guys just need something to defend and care for. They are still guys through and through…just on the nice side. Which is not bad at all. However if you give them a reason ( insult or harass their lady, family…etc.) they will pull a “bad boy” nice guy move…for a good reason. If fact that shows that they are more worth it because they feel they do not have to prove anything and put on a show…only if it is necessary…

Yes, they will, but they might also be reasonable enough to avoid fights they can’t be sure to win and if they do need to fight, they won’t be thinking about impressing anybody.

 

[keebler22]

Excellent post from a dating blog that sums it up perfectly.

bit.ly/bnl2M9
“‘Nice guys finish last’ should be changed to ‘passive guys finish last’”

Took me 3 years of college to figure it out, and its true. It seems stupid in retrospect, but changing a few small things made me go from only 3-6 dates/hookups a year to [many more] than that. I’m still ‘nice’, but not passive, and far less lonely because of it.

 

[laariii2]

Well i have known guys who think they are “nice” and good catholics and have high “standards” for themselves. the problem was…that they had high standards for others too and tended to be a bit judgemental.

Some “nice” “good” Catholic boys also have ridicules standards like it doesnt matter how devout or smart a woman is - if she’s not pretty with an “education” then she is not good enough for him.

Sorry if this sounds bitter but i met a “nice” Catholic boy - the kind that complains that womenn go for “bad boys” but not for him. he was kinda ugly and a bit overweight but i thought he had a good character and he took his faith very seriously. I decided that yeh, i could go out with him.

Do you think i was good enough for him? No way! I’m only a Tradie and I’m not blond and skinny ( though i am good looking and hardly fat). I watched him lust after a girl that is a B*H and a st for about a year. Even after he found out her true character he still asked her out.

He is still single and still complains about it. Do you think i can make him understand that its the TYPE of woman that he goes for thats the problem? Nup.

 

[Jay82]

Excellent post from a dating blog that sums it up perfectly.

bit.ly/bnl2M9
“‘Nice guys finish last’ should be changed to ‘passive guys finish last’”

Took me 3 years of college to figure it out, and its true. It seems stupid in retrospect, but changing a few small things made me go from only 3-6 dates/hookups a year to [many more] than that. I’m still ‘nice’, but not passive, and far less lonely because of it.

That article was pretty insightful. Thanks for sharing. There definitely is a distinction between ‘passive’ vs. ‘nice’ just as sometimes ‘nice’ girls get labeled as ‘shy’.

Well i have known guys who think they are “nice” and good catholics and have high “standards” for themselves. the problem was…that they had high standards for others too and tended to be a bit judgemental.

Some “nice” “good” Catholic boys also have ridicules standards like it doesnt matter how devout or smart a woman is - if she’s not pretty with an “education” then she is not good enough for him.

Sorry if this sounds bitter but i met a “nice” Catholic boy - the kind that complains that womenn go for “bad boys” but not for him. he was kinda ugly and a bit overweight but i thought he had a good character and he took his faith very seriously. I decided that yeh, i could go out with him.

Do you think i was good enough for him? No way! I’m only a Tradie and I’m not blond and skinny ( though i am good looking and hardly fat). I watched him lust after a girl that is a B*H and a st for about a year. Even after he found out her true character he still asked her out.

He is still single and still complains about it. Do you think i can make him understand that its the TYPE of woman that he goes for thats the problem? Nup.

I have always considered myself the ‘nice guy’ and I think just about everyone else does too. I wouldn’t consider myself passive either and have many alpha/leader traits.

It is too bad you met a ‘nice guy’ who is hung up on the wrong type of women. It is unfortunate. I can understand why some guys/girls are drawn to the ‘bad girl’ or ‘bad boy’ types, but for me its a complete turn off and I just want to find a ‘nice girl’ at some point. I do have some what high standards, but I don’t feel they are unrealistic. I don’t expect a girl to have to be model thin or have several degrees, etc. Heck, I’ve even elected not to pursue a relationship or anything of that sort with a former NFL Cheerleader that asked me out a few years back when we randomly met for the first time. She was quite beautiful…So clearly looks aren’t everything to me, but they are important.

 

[The_Bucket]

Women will always want a guy who is assertive and confident. Period. Yes I also think that money, looks, status and character are extremely important as well, but confidence and assertiveness are chief in the minds of women at a very primitive level. Just like men want a woman who is very good looking at a primitive level; women can get past a guy not being the best looking guy in the world, but they can’t get past a guy who isn’t confident in himself, regardless of how good a person he is. They’ll end up being close friends, but never more than that.

Now please understand I don’t mean to say that women are all status queens and golddiggers. Sure, there are some just like there are some caddish guys out there, but as has been pointed out repeatedly, women are attracted to security and strength. For a good Catholic woman, of course, a huge factor is moral and religious security and strength as well. But nice guys, you have to have that confidence and assertiveness to break the subconscious barrier in order for her to see your strength of character, just like women need to break men’s subconscious barrier of looks (or at least confidence in those looks) .

As I said before in this thread, or another one like it, I was always “that guy.” You know, the dependable guy who had a bunch of friends that were girls, but no girlfriends, because I never took a risk and kept women on a pedestal. It’s all well and fine to be chivalrous, I encourage it, but if you’re chivalrous and demur instead of being chivalrous and then using that as your entry to start a relationship, then you’re going to fail. The one time in my life that I said to myself “the heck with this, go for it man” I ended up dating the woman I married. Sure, I had girlfriends in the past and one was pretty attractive actually, but they fizzled quickly and we both got bored. Probably her first because I was never bold. You can respect a woman, her body and her soul and still be bold.

Heck, it extends to long term relationships and marriage as well. I know in my case that my relationship with my wife cools a bit if I start acting passive too often. She doesn’t want to tell me outright that she wants me to take control and when I fail to pick up on subtle hints, we have quarrels. So you have to dial the brashness up slightly and be willing to take the risk that she’s going to be upset or irritated. 99% of the time if you’re not being a huge jerk, just assertive and in control (but not controlling, if you understand the difference), she’ll be happier for it.

And that’s all there is to it. Bottom line, society has divided men into whipped little boys like the dads in sitcoms or cads. Women will invariably choose the cads most of the time because at least they’re showing some pulse of being an “alpha” type guy. But they’d much rather have the guy who exhibits alpha tendencies but isn’t a jerk and respects them. It’s a tough line to walk, but for practice, just try being bolder when talking to women and act like you’re in full command of the world around you without trying. Just have total confidence in yourself (or like me, get mad at yourself enough to fake it and then if it works you’ll really HAVE that confidence!) and world will be much different.

 

[former_Catholic]

I want to know what the people on these forums think of this belief that girls aren’t attracted to nice guys. I have read on the internet that people say this is because of animal instincts, but why would God make people have to break His own rules to be able to get in a relationship?

Take notes on everybody you have known over the course of twenty, thirty, or 50 years and you will observe that both men and women always fall madly in love with those who represent their issues and that most commonly those issues have to do with the issues of their houses of origin.

If you want someone to fall madly in love with you, you would have to be representative of those issues, most commonly those issues they have got with their house of origin.
(The controlling overbearing father? The controlling overbearing mother? The manipulative lying conniving father? The manipulative lying conniving mother? The exacting materialistic mother? The exacting materialistic mother?.. the list of possible issues is endless…)

Of course, that “madly in love” thing doesn’t really have anything actually to do with knowing how to build and maintain a loving relationship. It has to do with processing old dysfunctional issues…
which is why falling madly in love eventually just turns into just… madness… and most commonly doesn’t create any sort of lasting relationship at all… but often creates lasting exploitation or abuse or violence in cases where people continually act out and fight out their issues rather than grow up and change.

So…
if you want someone to fall “madly in love” with you, you want to resemble/represent their issues (most commonly the dysfunctional issues of their household of origin)
but of course, once they work out (fight out) those issues that relationship will implode.

if you want to fall “madly in love”… find someone who resembles/represents YOUR issues…
but of course, once you work out (fight out) those issues, your relationship will implode.

if you want to build a loving relationship…
work on creating yourself to be the best human being you can be faithful to your highest values and aspirations, and learn how to love, accept, nurture, communicate, and reveal your self to others…
and encourage them to do just that too…
and you will build lasting loving relationship, first with self… then with community… then with a like-minded significant other… then with children… then with the whole world.

God didn’t send you here because you already knew how to love like God loves.
God sent you here to process, heal, and release certain issues on the earth and learn how to love like God loves…
and nobody ever finishes at all until they have learned
Best of luck.

 

[LilyElain]

Take notes on everybody you have known over the course of twenty, thirty, or 50 years and you will observe that both men and women always fall madly in love with those who represent their issues and that most commonly those issues have to do with the issues of their houses of origin.

If you want someone to fall madly in love with you, you would have to be representative of those issues, most commonly those issues they have got with their house of origin.
(The controlling overbearing father? The controlling overbearing mother? The manipulative lying conniving father? The manipulative lying conniving mother? The exacting materialistic mother? The exacting materialistic mother?.. the list of possible issues is endless…)

Of course, that “madly in love” thing doesn’t really have anything actually to do with knowing how to build and maintain a loving relationship. It has to do with processing old dysfunctional issues…
which is why falling madly in love eventually just turns into just… madness… and most commonly doesn’t create any sort of lasting relationship at all… but often creates lasting exploitation or abuse or violence in cases where people continually act out and fight out their issues rather than grow up and change.

I think that is one of the saddest mis-representations of what love could be that I have heard in a long time…:nope:
And I heartily disagree…I have many good friends, girls and guys, who fell in “madly” in love with either the people who represented the good things in their life, or someone that made them better as a person… That is love, learning and growing together…yes, none of us are perfect, but to say we only fall in love to work on our issues is so very wrong…:dts:
I personally plan to be as madly in love as my parents and grandparents are still…

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Sadly, LilyElain, there is more than a little truth to what FC said. I’m watching children be attracted to people who are the worst reflection of their father’s bad traits. They’re dealing with their daddy issues in all the wrong ways!

 

[Havard]

Yeah, that’s not love. That’s infatuation.

Infatuation is easily distinguished from love in that it is characterized by unrealistic expectations without positive relationship growth or development, lack of trust, loyalty, commitment, and reciprocity.

Not surprisingly, I agree with Lily!

 

[ContegoFides]

It’s probably been said on this thread already, but I’ll take the risk of repeating it.

True Love is not an emotion, it is a choice.

Romance, that feeling of being “in love” with a member of the opposite sex, is an emotion. Romance, while attractive, comes and goes; love endures.

Love is desiring the highest and best good for the beloved, at the expense of self. The greatest example of love is the choice Jesus made to die on the cross for our sins, to redeem us all.

The irony is that if we give up ourselves to true love, that something even better than romance happens. An abiding peace and joy that far surpasses any temporary high gained from the thrill of romance.

From our Holy Father’s first encyclical as Pope:

His death on the cross is the culmination of that turning of God against himself in which he gives himself in order to raise man up and save him. This is love in its most radical form. By contemplating the pierced side of Christ (see Jn 19:37), we can understand the starting point of this encyclical letter: “God is love” (1 Jn 4:8). It is there that this truth can be contemplated. It is from there that our definition of love must begin.

Any understanding of the term “love” that does not comport with this definition is doomed to breed disappointment, resentment, despair, and/or anger.

And while I’m thinking of the title of the thread - nice guys (at least those that follow Christ) do finish first in the end. For the last shall be first and the first shall be last.

 

[Havard]

I don’t think I’d agree that romance is an emotion.

Affection (storge), awe, charity (agape), desire, eros, friendship (philia) gratitude, happiness, hope, joy… these are emotions. Romance is a term people use to describe manifestations of these emotions.

I do agree that love can be a choice, but it is also an emotion. Take a mother’s love for her newborn baby. Some people call this love affection, or storge. One cannot deny the emotional aspect to it. Similarly with agape, eros, and philia.

 

[Rascalking]

I don’t think I’d agree that romance is an emotion.

Affection (storge), awe, charity (agape), desire, eros, friendship (philia) gratitude, happiness, hope, joy… these are emotions. Romance is a term people use to describe manifestations of these emotions.

I do agree that love can be a choice, but it is also an emotion. Take a mother’s love for her newborn baby. Some people call this love affection, or storge. One cannot deny the emotional aspect to it. Similarly with agape, eros, and philia.

Well said Ivy leaguer. (Havard just doesn’t sound right…sorry man…can I call you that instead? )

I don’t know if anyone can really quanitfy the heavy feelings of romance. It might be different for everyone. It obviously makes alot of emotions run out of whack.

 

[former_Catholic]

I think that is one of the saddest mis-representations of what love could be that I have heard in a long time…:nope:
And I heartily disagree…I have many good friends, girls and guys, who fell in “madly” in love with either the people who represented the good things in their life, or someone that made them better as a person… That is love, learning and growing together…yes, none of us are perfect, but to say we only fall in love to work on our issues is so very wrong…:dts:
I personally plan to be as madly in love as my parents and grandparents are still…

As your experience of long term loving relationship appears to be limited to observations of your parents and grandparents, I would suggest that you ask them about the difference between *falling madly in love *with someone and actually loving someone such that one actually manages to build a lasting relationship and lasting family with someone.

“Falling madly in love” has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with love or loving.
Love is a skill, a conscious decision, a clear intent, and the greatest manifestation of one’s highest self and soul.

Nobody but nobody “falls madly” into a *skill, *a conscious decision, a clear intent and the greatest manifestation of one’s highest self and soul.

Anybody concerned about “nice guys finishing last” clearly needs to learn the difference between the mechanism that creates the phenomenon of “falling madly in love” in this world and the mechamism that creates and sustains the phenomenon of genuinely loving and geninely lasting relationship in this world.

 

[LilyElain]

As your experience of long term loving relationship appears to be limited to observations of your parents and grandparents, I would suggest that you ask them about the difference between *falling madly in love *with someone and actually loving someone such that one actually manages to build a lasting relationship and lasting family with someone.

“Falling madly in love” has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with love or loving.
Love is a skill, a conscious decision, a clear intent, and the greatest manifestation of one’s highest self and soul.

Nobody but nobody “falls madly” into a *skill, *a conscious decision, a clear intent and the greatest manifestation of one’s highest self and soul.

Anybody concerned about “nice guys finishing last” clearly needs to learn the difference between the mechanism that creates the phenomenon of “falling madly in love” in this world and the mechamism that creates and sustains the phenomenon of genuinely loving and geninely lasting relationship in this world.

I happen to think they are the same thing… and I still do not think I would fall in love with someone to work through my so called “issues”. That is not a CHOICE I would ever make…
Grandparents married for over fifty years and still very much in love…and parents for over 25 years, who still act much like the college kids that fell “madly in love” over twenty years ago. I just get tired of people pushing that feeling, that love aside…“because you should NEVER trust THOSE emotional feelings”(sarcastic) …I happen to think my parents and grandparents made the right choices based on that amazing, gut romantic feeling that they CHOSE to follow… and I have talked to both sets of grandparents and parents about this sort of thing.

But perhaps they and I are all just naive…

 

[Rascalking]

But perhaps they and I are all just naive…

Your not naive at all. Romantic people kick butt. You just need to make sure your gut is telling you the right things.

It sounds like both your parents and grandparents (and mine were in the same circumstances until my grandfathers passed away) are in the same boat as mine.

So many Catholics seem to think that romance doesn’t matter-that the flutter of a heart or the weak in the knees feelings are meaningless. Not a chance. Those matter more than they know.

Three cheers for romance!