Nice guys finish last belief

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People: I’ve said this before (but gaaaa - I must defend a pet peeve!) perception of “feminine” is a lot like beauty: in the eye of the beholder. (For example, in Mexico, women who shut up and work super hard are considered especially feminine) But REAL femininity correlates precisely with holiness: because God made both the masculine and the feminine in His image, the closer you get to Him, the more feminine you become. That is why the Blessed Mother is the epitome of femininity. You can emphasize that you are female, but idk, it points to femininity, but it isn’t the same.
WG: In addition, I believe dear Kelleyclip said it well when she said that women should be strong in every area of their lives, and people who don’t like that will threaten them by saying they are unfeminine! (And people will also call them names which attack their sexual morals. :rolleyes: Gaaa!)
 
dbmus said:
I have left out details… and will continue to out of charity.
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Okay. Although knowing more could help associate judgements with their real roots, as opposite to giving certain wrong impressions.
Perhaps a better way of saying “taking stock” is - what about myself am I rejecting? What gifts from God have I rejected? How do I hide my true self? What qualities or aspects of masculinity/femininity make me uncomfortable? Do I truly believe God loves me?
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Not sure where it goes but might be an interesting train of thought.
In terms of economics… I know it sucks. I spent about 2 months lamenting how unfair it was that guys would not remember my name after meeting me 5 or 6 times, that they wouldn’t approach me, that I didn’t get asked out. I mean I was smart, funny, well-educated, a good cook, etc… But the truth is men are visual creatures and if there was another woman who was smart, funny, well-educated and a good cook, AND who looked like a beautiful, feminine woman - she’d be picked every time. So I got a hair cut, some new clothes that actually fit, and started accepting my femininity. This wasn’t a quick process - it took about 3 years.
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Well, it can be worked around. It takes some effort and creativity and probably won’t work on every man, but when you target those who are soaked in certain deep-rooted cultural paradigms, then many aspects of charm, some of which (or most) might be learnt, have every potential to overshadow the raw material aspect of looks, so to say. I’ve seen lawyers pull it off with rather spectacular results. Incidentally, getting the haircut, picking the suit, carrying yourself well etc. is the usual modus operandi for turning a plain guy into a handsome, so men should be more familiar with these mechanics (we basically have to rely on them as a rule).
Often people have a long list of what they’re looking for in a mate without considering what they have to offer someone else. I thought the quote just shifts focus from expecting others to fulfill our needs to realizing that we are also called to attend the needs of others.
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Well, okay, but what spiritual good do I achieve doing due diligence on my looks, academic scores, professional opportunities etc., much less wondering about what sweet qualities I might have to my personality? That’d be fast track to NPD, the way I see it. Besides, as much as I might do it professionally to some extent, I really don’t feel like “selling” whatever I might like about myself or see as constitutional to the kind of person I am. Not like I won’t ever show off, but I’m not selling a product.
I’m not saying selfish people are any better than those who are doormats. Both are sinful.
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Let’s say there is fault in being a doormat as long as it involves conscious choices, but there’s much more room for fault in harming others than in being wrongly receptive to that harm.
And that “looking out for number 1” attitude is not attractive or masculine at all. Women want someone who can protect and defend them.
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Then why are they attracted by men who scold them, disrespect them, neglect them, objectify them, and to the whole bad boy persona?
Say for example the colleagues of a man make a comment about his wife having a great rack. A good guy defends his wife, and tells them to stop treating her like an object. A selfish guy agrees with them and throws in his own comments further objectifying her. A doormat guy lets them say whatever they want, not wanting to rock the boat, might even laugh along with them.
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I agree but I am not sure what the statistical woman would prefer to hear as a compliment, to be honest. This is not meant as a slur, but I know something about this subject and I can imagine the situation in which he defends her but she doesn’t mind being objectified. Obviously, he isn’t doing it for her to “mind”, but a strong level of dissociation is clearing up. Sometimes a comment makes your blood boil, but the women concerned seem to be glad to receive it.
Selfish guys and doormat guys are more the same than they are different. Selfish men take advantage of those weaker than themselves. Doormats allow abuse to take place - either to themselves or others (especially defenseless children) without doing anything to stop it. One is a sin of commission, one of omission.
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Easy there. Some people defend others but somehow neglect their own defences because of lack of a penchant for violence or conflict. Yet others are simply not very skilled in the art of the stick, so to say. I would definitely not lump the two together. The somewhat passive or shy guy is not the same as the somewhat aggressive guy. Just look at which one is the more likely to beat you (generic you). Also, there is no logic to put a boring guy on the same level with an abuser, no matter how much explaining is done. It may only be said, for example, that both are equally unattractive, or even the boring guy might be less attractive than the abuser, but if his only fault is in being somewhat boring, then that is very far from any form of actual abuse.
 
A good woman cooks, cleans, takes care of the kids and doesnt complain. She also keeps the beer coming and never is too tired. Most men can have a woman like this if they followed the advice of the good man Jimmy Soul. Men cause their own problems with women by placing superficiality above having a life with a woman devoted to them. Next time a man complains about his woman Im going to say, thats why you make an ugly woman your wife and date the beautiful ones for fun :p. 😃
 
dakotagirl said:
People: I’ve said this before (but gaaaa - I must defend a pet peeve!) perception of “feminine” is a lot like beauty: in the eye of the beholder. (For example, in Mexico, women who shut up and work super hard are considered especially feminine) But REAL femininity correlates precisely with holiness: because God made both the masculine and the feminine in His image, the closer you get to Him, the more feminine you become. That is why the Blessed Mother is the epitome of femininity. You can emphasize that you are female, but idk, it points to femininity, but it isn’t the same.
WG: In addition, I believe dear Kelleyclip said it well when she said that women should be strong in every area of their lives, and people who don’t like that will threaten them by saying they are unfeminine! (And people will also call them names which attack their sexual morals. :rolleyes: Gaaa!)
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*Thought I said something like that. lol 😛 No, women should be strong…but when it comes to looks, I think most women if we’re honest, like a guy who is strong, solid, looks masculine. Doesn’t look feminine. I hope we can agree on that. lol Likewise, I think men when we say they are ‘‘visual,’’ really want the same things we do, they want someone who is the opposite of them…in looks, we’re talking. When it comes to strength, and so on…everyone is unique…and all women should be able to take care of themselves. I don’t need my husband to ‘take care of me,’ kind of thing. Whew, we women are complicated. *
 
whatevergirl said:
*Thought I said something like that. lol 😛 No, women should be strong…but when it comes to looks, I think most women if we’re honest, like a guy who is strong, solid, looks masculine. Doesn’t look feminine. I hope we can agree on that. lol Likewise, I think men when we say they are ‘‘visual,’’ really want the same things we do, they want someone who is the opposite of them…in looks, we’re talking. When it comes to strength, and so on…everyone is unique…and all women should be able to take care of themselves. I don’t need my husband to ‘take care of me,’ kind of thing. Whew, we women are complicated. *
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Absolutely! I want a guy that is strong and masculine, which is the complete opposite of me 🙂 If I am strong in any way, I am strong with my words but not strong physically. I don’t know any strait girls that want a feminine looking guy lol who want a man wearing eye shadow? Both men and women want the opposite of themselves as far as physical appearance and/or attributes, personalities should share commonalities but shouldn’t be exactly the same. You’re right, no one wants to kiss a clone of themselves- eww. Gender roles are very complicated too. Some women don’t mind doing work around the house, where some (like myself) are not domesticated in any shape or form. I think I’d like to marry a chef, that would solve the cooking anyway lol!
 
kelleyclip said:
I think I’d like to marry a chef, that would solve the cooking anyway lol!
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I kinda hear you, Kelley dear: who needs shiny rocks and handbags with the correct letters of the alphabet engraved on them? I think I’d like to marry a man who cleans houses for a living, and that would solve a lot of my problems. 😛
 
dakotagirl said:
I kinda hear you, Kelley dear: who needs shiny rocks and handbags with the correct letters of the alphabet engraved on them? I think I’d like to marry a man who cleans houses for a living, and that would solve a lot of my problems. 😛
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I agree. Personally I hate diamonds, I prefer sapphires and emeralds but I’ve decided I don’t want my wedding ring to be all about bling. I’d like a nice platinum band, no stones, gems or carets to worry about. I hate purses and despise the thought of having 100 pairs of shoes. My thinking is, if I marry a chef then I could hire a maid 🙂 PROBLEM SOLVED! Who’s with me? lol
 
kelleyclip said:
I agree. Personally I hate diamonds, I prefer sapphires and emeralds but I’ve decided I don’t want my wedding ring to be all about bling. I’d like a nice platinum band, no stones, gems or carets to worry about. I hate purses and despise the thought of having 100 pairs of shoes. My thinking is, if I marry a chef then I could hire a maid 🙂 PROBLEM SOLVED! Who’s with me? lol
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Me.
 
kelleyclip said:
I agree. Personally I hate diamonds, I prefer sapphires and emeralds but I’ve decided I don’t want my wedding ring to be all about bling. I’d like a nice platinum band, no stones, gems or carets to worry about. I hate purses and despise the thought of having 100 pairs of shoes. My thinking is, if I marry a chef then I could hire a maid 🙂 PROBLEM SOLVED! Who’s with me? lol
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Who worries about germs or carrots? :confused:
 
The word is CARAT. 😃 But no one should worry about carats, OR carrots. lol
 
Alright if i may divert the conversation away from rings and diamonds and other shiny objects 😛 heres my view on this nice guys finish last thing.

In my opinion there are four kinds of men:

The jerk with the alpha male complex

the hopeless romantic

the dude

and

the man

The jerk with the alpha male complex is the kind of guy that treats women like trophies, thinks hes the center of the universe, spends more time looking in the mirror than breathing, and to anyone with self respect he is a repulsive creature. (example: the situation)

the hopeless romantic is a nice guy at heart but lacks the masculine qualities of the typical man, he is usually extremely timid, and more likely to wait for woman to ask him out than for him to ask a woman out. (example: george mcfly)

The dude is the guy that has his head in the clouds, he kind of drifts through life not knowing what’s going on and is kind of apathetic to everything, he may or may not be aware of the existence of the female population. example: ( the dude, bill and ted from bill and teds excellent adventure)

and finally theres “the man”

the man has the humility that the jerk lacks with the masculinity that the hopeless romantic lacks. Hes the kind of guy you bring home to mom and dad.
(example: Superman, indiana jones)

so thats my assessment of my fellow males feel free to add to my list of archetypes lol.

many of the “nice guys” fall into the hopeless romantic category and really aren’t the most assertive and manly individuals sometimes acting like a doormat, and usually that is a turn off for women.

imo, men and women were meant to compliment each other. where the man has a weakness the woman has a strength and where the woman has a weakness the man has a strength. Everybody’s different so i would assume each person looks for the person that compliments them. not that people dont look for people that have similar interests, thats not the sort of thing im talking about here; im talking about the things that our in our natures/personalities.
 
“Well, you know, that’s just like your opinion… man.” - the Dude
 
whatevergirl said:
*I don’t know if men are merely visual creatures as much as both genders like the opposite of what they were born with–men like feminine soft attractive features, typically. Women typically like strong, smart men who can defend them. NOT THAT WOMEN CAN’T DEFEND THEMSELVES, but KWIM? I think that if a man wants a lovely feminine woman on his arm, he shouldn’t feel have to apologize for that. I understand it…I found someone the opposite of me, taller…strong and solid build…masculine. It is built into our very natures by God, to want the opposite of who we are…Which is why I DO think women are visual, but in different ways–we look for the opposite in ourselves also. I didn’t want to marry a clone of myself…a petite, feminine woman…um, no. lol I wanted the opposite. I think that is really at the base of attraction. Not that men only want beauty queens…(well, some might lol) but, they want what the beauty queen REPRESENTS…the ultimate in feminity to them. Doesn’t mean ALL women should wear their hair long, or dress this way or that–all women have different looks…but, every woman can be authentically and uniquely feminine…and that is what men look for…and women look for the opposite in themselves, too. *
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Since we’re sharing pictures… 😃

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

“Lloyd Dobler”… the perfect “nice guy”…maybe with the exception of being overly smart, 😛 (but smart enough). He had everything you said - he was taller, stronger, masculine, and could kickbox. To know him was to love him. As if the boombox held overhead wasn’t enough for you to make you fall in ❤️ with him!
Peter Gabriel. sigh Best serenade ever. Hands down.

sorry, carry on…just had to throw that in…hopeless romantic that I am…this thread is so interesting. 😉
 
_L said:
Alright if i may divert the conversation away from rings and diamonds and other shiny objects 😛 here’s my view on this nice guys finish last thing.

In my opinion there are four kinds of men:

The jerk with the alpha male complex

the hopeless romantic

the dude

and

the man

The jerk with the alpha male complex is the kind of guy that treats women like trophies, thinks hes the center of the universe, spends more time looking in the mirror than breathing, and to anyone with self respect he is a repulsive creature. (example: the situation)

the hopeless romantic is a nice guy at heart but lacks the masculine qualities of the typical man, he is usually extremely timid, and more likely to wait for woman to ask him out than for him to ask a woman out. (example: george mcfly)

The dude is the guy that has his head in the clouds, he kind of drifts through life not knowing what’s going on and is kind of apathetic to everything, he may or may not be aware of the existence of the female population. example: ( the dude, bill and ted from bill and teds excellent adventure)

and finally there’s “the man”

the man has the humility that the jerk lacks with the masculinity that the hopeless romantic lacks. Hes the kind of guy you bring home to mom and dad.
(example: Superman, indiana jones)

so that’s my assessment of my fellow males feel free to add to my list of archetypes lol.

many of the “nice guys” fall into the hopeless romantic category and really aren’t the most assertive and manly individuals sometimes acting like a doormat, and usually that is a turn off for women.

imo, men and women were meant to compliment each other. where the man has a weakness the woman has a strength and where the woman has a weakness the man has a strength. Everybody’s different so i would assume each person looks for the person that compliments them. not that people dont look for people that have similar interests, that’s not the sort of thing im talking about here; im talking about the things that our in our natures/personalities.
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This is probably the best analysis of “guys” in general I’ve ever read. It’s true women don’t want a passive & wimpy guy, they (we) want an assertive man with chutzpah. I absolutely agree with the opposite genders complimenting each other through their differences. golf clap
 
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