Nice guys finish last belief

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Liberanosamalo said:
Well, then you have missed the point completely, NEC.
This isn’t about fornicating.
Live your life so that others may want what you have. Don’t sit around and grouse about the fact that you don’t get to sin and you want what they have. That’s backwards! :rolleyes:
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Two points. In today’s society, it is absolutely about sex. If you disagree, then I don’t know what to say. I don’t sit around envying other people’s lifestyles. I just shake my head as they sleep around, get married or live together, get divorced, and inevitably end up in my workplace or in my doctoral classes resenting everyone. This is the new majority, so it’s realistic to expect difficulty for folks in this thread to meet Mr. or Mrs. Right.

As for your positive approach, it is appropriate. However, I think it has largely failed to meet today’s modernist views, and the abandonment of the old fire-and-brimstone morality is the cause. Both approaches are necessary.
 
Fire and brimstone is good in its place. But it won’t attract people for the right reasons. Love is always a better motivation than fear. Self interest works too. If you can convince people that if they follow The Manufacturer’s instructions life will go better for them, it’s better than believing He is a Big Shoe waiting to squash them like a bug.

If sex = happiness, we should be one big effing disneyland here, the happiest place on earth. But it’s not and we’re not happier. Seems the more sex people have the more unhappy they are. It takes some people longer to figure that out than others. If all they’re looking for is sex, that’s like eating icing without cake. Yeah, icing is great. But how many of us could sit there and eat a whole jar of it for very long without feeling sick.

We’re not in a modernist age. We’ve moved along to post-Modernism… and we go around the bend long and far enough we’ll be back to where we started… 😉

There’s a lot of good things about celibacy people forget:

no pregnancy worries
no disease worries
limits the stalkers
weeds out the people who only are interested in you for THAT
Keeps you from getting too emotionally bonded to people who aren’t bonded with you as much.
Keeps your head clear to see people as they are
You keep your self respect
You stay close to God…
A relationship not built on a bed of sin stands a firmer chance of succeeding
You have a chance to see how much self control the other person really has
Weeds out the people with a short-timer’s attitude
Easier to break up with the person if you’re not THAT entangled if they turn out to be the wrong one
Gives you something to look forward to with the person if you eventually marry.
Sex addicts will lose interest in you early in the dating process

The fire and brimstone approach works only on people who actually think hell exists and that Hitler and Stalin are not the only people sitting there.

I think people have lost sight not so much of what sin will do to them for all eternity. That’s bad enough. Sadder still is that they don’t believe that sin crucifies Christ all over again. They add to His suffering. Nor do they care.

You don’t do that to people you love.

Fire and brimstone shouldn’t be necessary for people who really had a relationship with Christ.

THAT is the fundamental problem. They’re making other human beings the be all and end all of life, when other people are supposed to be partners and helpmeets on the way to union with Christ.

We aren’t being taught what religion really is. It’s not a set of “dont’s and rules”. RELIGION comes from the Latin word “ligere” meaning “To tie or bind” not “lex, legis,” meaning “Law.” Religion is that relationship that ties us to God. From that all things should flow. We’re actually beyond post-Modernism. I’d call it Neo-paganism.

We’re a world that’s back to worshiping trees and rocks and earth spirits and sex has returned to its most primitive status.

THAT is why your office mates are so miserable. Know Christ, Know Peace. No Christ, No Peace. Simple as that.
 
I’m not entirely sure we are in disagreement. As for modernist vs. postmodernist, I don’t want to go back there. There are not clear distinctions because the issues, authors, and philosophers blend and merge with each other. I’ve written more 20-page papers mimicking that philosophy in master’s and doctoral classes than I can remember. The relativist views of the Derrida’s of the world are in full dominance. Needless to say, it’s a rejection of what was once considered traditional philosophy.

My point was intended to mention the dilemma people in this thread are facing. If they are older virgins or even 20 year-old virgins, they unfortunately face a difficult dilemma. The people they meet will invariably have slept around or divorced or used to live together. There are often kids too. There are a variety of psychological and morality issues at play with 99% of these folks that will almost assuredly jeopardize a marriage. The days of the traditional widow meeting a kind gent are over. That’s a rarity.

I know it sounds cruel. I realize some of these folks have turned their lives around via Christ. Some of them are doing the right thing and walking the walk. But you’re talking about your marriage here, and these residual issues rarely go away. You’d better make sure this “baggage” doesn’t sabotage the marriage.

If you’re looking to marry someone with this type of baggage(and that’s 99% of people these days), I strongly suggest you quadruple whatever safeguards there are. Ask your family several times about the guy/gal. More importantly, I’d recommend a 2 year minimum dating time with the last year consisting of frequent interactions. Push for longer if you can; the uglies in your relationship will surface. The cultural norms of today demand nothing less if you want to have the best possible chance for a stable marriage. Just look at the dismal statistics otherwise.

Based on your responses, I think I’d classify you as slightly naive, and you would probably place me in the cynical category. Then again, I tend to view optimistic people as naive, which is not at all fair or warranted. So you’re optimistic, and now I"m thinking of binary oppositions again…😦
 
Nec5, I’m not sure we really need to make distinctions between Catholics who want to marry, whether they were once in a null “marriage,” or older or younger singles, virgins or not.

Everybody needs to go into the whole relationship thing with eyes wide open, and run potential mates through a long gauntlet of friends, family, and experiences. It used to be that common culture meant common expectations, but we don’t have that anymore, so everything is up for negotiation. Though I would suppose that the common culture of daily communicants or Third Orders or something like that would count for something. It’s a lot more work than it used to be to find someone who can be a lifelong partner. We don’t just have to look for someone who fits us, we have to check and double check that the person is suitable for marriage at all.

And if there are kids involved, I think maybe that might make discernment easier sometimes. Kids can make it pretty clear which parent is the cash machine and which one is doing the hard work of being the single parent. If a person has issues which would mess up a future marriage, I think it would be pretty obvious in the parenting relationship. It’s certainly true in the split families I see in my area. And if you’re not up for step-parenting, then you’ve got a deal-breaker right there in your face.
 
Based on your responses, I think I’d classify you as slightly naive, and you would probably place me in the cynical category. Then again, I tend to view optimistic people as naive, which is not at all fair or warranted. So you’re optimistic, and now I"m thinking of binary oppositions again…
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Thanks for my laugh of the morning. 😃

You obviously haven’t read the totality of my writing here on CAF.

😉

I’m meaner and more cynical than you’ll ever hope to be.

😃

And not at all optimistic when it comes down to it.

Just when I write what the Church teaches about the human person and what religion should be and how our behavior SHOULD be motivated, it does sound naive to you, doesn’t it?

I need to stop being positive around here. Gosh. One day I’m a bitter divorcee and the next I’m slightly naive.

🤷
 
Wow, a girl fight! 😛 Just kidding. Ladies, ladies, there’s a whole lotta men watching. 😛

As for the caveats, yeah, that’s a problem even in a Catholic country like here. The statistics are bad. I don’t want to badmouth my populace, but the odds of finding a practicing Catholic without bad ideas are slim. And then, let’s consider also the fact that attraction is needed, after all. Somehow, however, I’m not gloomy about this and I believe God will find His way if He wants to.
 
nice guys finish last. all the dicks and jerks get the good girls while we nice guys get screwed over by God with no vaseline. simple as that
 
lol the bad guys would just beat the woman or just end in a divorce. so if u marry a"bad a*8" be my guest, i won’t feel sorry for u when u get beat to a bloody pulp.i’m not going to your funeral when u get beat to death.
 
george4072 said:
nice guys finish last. all the dicks and jerks get the good girls while we nice guys get screwed over by God with no vaseline. simple as that
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*:eek: Tell us how you really feel…gosh, that was blunt. Teens read this board, please watch your language. *
 
Note the timing of the posts. The second one came when no one paid attention to the first. I don’t see a troll emoticon, unfortunately.
 
george4072 said:
sorry for my language, but its true.
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I trust that God will find a wonderful woman for you, george…you have to think positive about these things. Positive thoughts lead to positive things happening. Negative thoughts, well…you know the drill. lol Our experiences, good AND bad, lead us to where we are…and had I not dated a lot of ‘bad guys,’ I wouldn’t have eventually appreciated and married my husband, who is a good Catholic guy. Don’t get downtrodden. :console: I know that in our world, it’s hard to meet a good Catholic, who shares our views…but, trust me…it can happen, and will, if you surrender your despair and just wait on the Lord. :o*
 
chevalier said:
Wow, a girl fight! 😛 Just kidding. Ladies, ladies, there’s a whole lotta men watching. 😛

As for the caveats, yeah, that’s a problem even in a Catholic country like here. The statistics are bad. I don’t want to badmouth my populace, but the odds of finding a practicing Catholic without bad ideas are slim. And then, let’s consider also the fact that attraction is needed, after all. Somehow, however, I’m not gloomy about this and I believe God will find His way if He wants to.
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Leaving it in God’s hands is a solid approach. And who were the girls that were fighting?
 
Is it because the guy is “nice” or because he’s self-righteous and thinks that because he’s done what he’s supposed to, he deserves someone? Or is it because he expects her to fall from the sky, a good woman AND a supermodel all rolled into one?

I am actually a girl who doesn’t like the “bad boys”. I do like nice guys. But this is what I identify as nice:
  1. Confident in himself. We all have insecurities but I don’t want someone who shrinks in the shadow. I want someone who knows who he is and isn’t afraid to be all that God made him to be.
  2. A TRUE gentleman. Not someone who does nice things just to get the girl, but does it because he truly has a heart for people and has a very genuine spirit.
  3. Someone who’s not an emotional wall, who doesn’t think that allowing himself to feel things makes him feel feminine or what have you. I’m sorry, but if I have to be intimate with this person, it better be in more ways than one.
  4. Compassionate. Someone who reaches out to others and is kind and caring. Someone who is understanding and patient, who reaches out to everyone.
  5. Strong. This strength need not be physical. He needs to be strong enough to resist temptations (yes, we all need to work on that) and to live with integrity. He needs strength to weather the storms of sin, the trials and tribulations of marriage and of life in general. He can’t run away from things too easily.
  6. His heart better be so focused on God, that I gotta run after him to keep up.
That’s my definition.
 
cjcapta said:
I want to know what the people on these forums think of this belief that girls aren’t attracted to nice guys. I have read on the internet that people say this is because of animal instincts, but why would God make people have to break His own rules to be able to get in a relationship?:confused:
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Personally, I don’t think it has anything to do with “niceness.” I consider myself to be a pretty nice guy, but that hasn’t prevented girls from being attracted to me. It doesn’t really matter whether a guy is nice or not, as long as he’s a leader, i.e. alpha male, there will be women who are attracted to him. Being nice is just icing on the cake.

Usually when a girl refers to someone as a “nice guy,” it means that that guy has no other options but to be nice. Does that sound like someone you’d want to be with? Probably not.
 
*2) A TRUE gentleman. Not someone who does nice things just to get the girl, but does it because he truly has a heart for people and has a very genuine spirit. *

This one is a biggie! Particularly important is how they treat women who are not potential mates for them. 😉 After all, what if one of them had a suitable sister or cousin and ended up thinking “no way would I introduce them to this numbskull!” :dts:
 
sanctamaria17 said:
Is it because the guy is “nice” or because he’s self-righteous and thinks that because he’s done what he’s supposed to, he deserves someone? Or is it because he expects her to fall from the sky, a good woman AND a supermodel all rolled into one?

I am actually a girl who doesn’t like the “bad boys”. I do like nice guys. But this is what I identify as nice:
  1. Confident in himself. We all have insecurities but I don’t want someone who shrinks in the shadow. I want someone who knows who he is and isn’t afraid to be all that God made him to be.
  2. A TRUE gentleman. Not someone who does nice things just to get the girl, but does it because he truly has a heart for people and has a very genuine spirit.
  3. Someone who’s not an emotional wall, who doesn’t think that allowing himself to feel things makes him feel feminine or what have you. I’m sorry, but if I have to be intimate with this person, it better be in more ways than one.
  4. Compassionate. Someone who reaches out to others and is kind and caring. Someone who is understanding and patient, who reaches out to everyone.
  5. Strong. This strength need not be physical. He needs to be strong enough to resist temptations (yes, we all need to work on that) and to live with integrity. He needs strength to weather the storms of sin, the trials and tribulations of marriage and of life in general. He can’t run away from things too easily.
  6. His heart better be so focused on God, that I gotta run after him to keep up.
That’s my definition.
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I love this list!!👍 Good for you:clapping::bowdown2:
 
BadTurkey said:
It doesn’t really matter whether a guy is nice or not, as long as he’s a leader, i.e. alpha male, there will be women who are attracted to him.
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Getting a following doesn’t always translate into finding a compatible soul. 😛
Usually when a girl refers to someone as a “nice guy,” it means that that guy has no other options but to be nice. Does that sound like someone you’d want to be with? Probably not.
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And what would the other options be, pray tell? And who in his sane mind would be attracted to someone not nice, that is, rude? Again, by “nice” I understand polite and kind and not only on the surface.
sanctamaria17 said:
Is it because the guy is “nice” or because he’s self-righteous and thinks that because he’s done what he’s supposed to, he deserves someone? Or is it because he expects her to fall from the sky, a good woman AND a supermodel all rolled into one?
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Good points.
I am actually a girl who doesn’t like the “bad boys”. I do like nice guys. But this is what I identify as nice:
  1. Confident in himself. We all have insecurities but I don’t want someone who shrinks in the shadow. I want someone who knows who he is and isn’t afraid to be all that God made him to be.
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I understand why, plus, I’m rather confident myself, and attracted to confidence as far as any future consort is concerned, but I’m curious by what logic “confident” constitutes a part of “nice”. 😛
 
From what I can tell - there is an over-representation of these “nice guys” on these forums.

They are usually the types that just “hang around” a girl they really like and hope that by being “nice” the girl will fall into their lap. That way they don’t have to risk any form of rejection. Not a great way to get the girl/guy you want. I’ve seen it so many times.

What I often find somewhat perplexing is when self proclaimed “nice guys” start getting nasty and feeling superior. “Well if these women can’t see what a catch I am they are all just shallow”…Often such types are egged on by other posters in a misguided attempt to build confidence.

Truth be known, it probably the last thing they need.

What the expression really means (to me) can be summed up by another expression:

HE WHO DARES WINS.

A bit of info that I found in wikapedia that might be of interest:

Tony Clink offers an explanation for why many women are attracted to the jerk rather than the nice guy:

“It’s not because women like jerks. Women prefer polite over rude, and attentive over distracted. The problem is the way nice guys present these positive characteristics. In order to appear friendly and romantic, these ‘nice guys’ think they have to turn off their sexuality. They hide their desires in order not to offend, presenting an androgynous, asexual persona. The first impression they give is one of emasculation, weakness, and lack of desire. At best, they confuse the woman as to whether they even find her attractive. That’s what jerks offer women that nice guys don’t: they’re not afraid to be sexual.”[7][8].
 
*This thread is starting to sadden me…as though women were some mystery, puzzle or prize to be won. 😦 Women are individuals, who have unique experiences that make them each individual. It isn’t one size fits all…if you act like ‘x’ then ‘y’ is going to happen. If you don’t do ‘xyz,’ then ‘123’ is going to happen. No…that’s not a good approach to finding a wife.

If you are single, and think this way, that could be why you’re single. Treat the women you are interested in pursuing the way you’d like to be treated, as UNIQUE, wth kindness and generosity (genuinely, not to win her over or to tell everyone, hey I cracked the code!:rolleyes:)…and you’ll probably be married before long. (if that’s what you’re looking for) Be a gentleman, across the board…you’ll be surprised what might happen. *
 
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