D
dulcissima
Guest
It seems to me that you have handled it better than most men your age have.
- Status
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
I bet I’m the bitter one he’s talking about. 
For the record, I’m not bitter. Though I’d be insane to take a “Well, you win some, you lose some” attitude to what happened to me. And I’ve never been to a singles event. So how can I hijack one.
I just am honest about the kind of person who uses and abuses and unfortunately I married him, but being a nice Catholic girl, I stayed and obeyed my vows about 10 years too long.
So I exist to serve as a warning to others.
Norseman, you seem very angry about being alone. How many women have you walked right on by because they were too tall/short/fat/thin/dowdy/beautiful or whatever for you? Did you get to know them all before you rejected them, or did you just slap a label like “bitter crabby divorced woman” on them?
You put labels on us and imply that we are damaged goods. We think we’re doing pretty good because we haven’t slipped into a vat of alcohol to numb the pain, we go to Mass, we get up every morning and make it through another day as productive members of society. And you don’t know pain until you’ve been rejected publicly in a courtroom by a man whom you once thought was your soulmate but who decided after a few years he wanted something else.
Yeah, it makes me mad. I did not choose my singleness either. I have known what it felt to be married and have a partner in life and now I do not have one, not by my choice. But now I carry the stigma of being a “divorced woman.” A stigma people like you slap on me.
At least single people aren’t responsible for children as they are trying to have a social life. Try dating when there are a whole class of men who won’t even look at a woman with children. Or you worry that someone will target you for “romance” BECAUSE you have children.
Unlike some 25 year old girl, I have proven I can run a house, work, take care of a car, kids, upkeep, lawn, cooking, shopping and pets. Alone. With no help.
Maybe someday I’ll meet a man who sees me and others like me not as a damaged bitter divorced woman, but as someone who did our duty in spite of a difficult situation. And he will look beyond our lack of virginity and appreciate that we have virtues in other areas. And he won’t judge us by just one standard.
But being angry that women don’t chase you down the street is no way to attract them. Women can perceive anger and resentment you know. If deep down you think they are all shallow or sleazy or inferior to you spiritually, you’ll guarantee being alone the next 40 years.
I didn’t sign on for celibacy either. But I have too much to do to sit and think about how I’m “deprived” or something. And for the record, Jesus was celibate, and He was the world’s greatest lover. Because He didn’t reduce love to one physical act. Be a “lover” like that and the world will beat a path to YOUR door.
Signed:
Bitter divorcee
Oh, and we’re crabby because some jerk used up all our patience long ago. We don’t have time for foolishness or games or immaturity. Been there, done that.
If you don’t play games, aren’t foolish or immature, the light of her crabbiness won’t shine like a spotlight on you.
For the record, I’m not bitter. Though I’d be insane to take a “Well, you win some, you lose some” attitude to what happened to me. And I’ve never been to a singles event. So how can I hijack one.
I just am honest about the kind of person who uses and abuses and unfortunately I married him, but being a nice Catholic girl, I stayed and obeyed my vows about 10 years too long.
So I exist to serve as a warning to others.
Norseman, you seem very angry about being alone. How many women have you walked right on by because they were too tall/short/fat/thin/dowdy/beautiful or whatever for you? Did you get to know them all before you rejected them, or did you just slap a label like “bitter crabby divorced woman” on them?
You put labels on us and imply that we are damaged goods. We think we’re doing pretty good because we haven’t slipped into a vat of alcohol to numb the pain, we go to Mass, we get up every morning and make it through another day as productive members of society. And you don’t know pain until you’ve been rejected publicly in a courtroom by a man whom you once thought was your soulmate but who decided after a few years he wanted something else.
Yeah, it makes me mad. I did not choose my singleness either. I have known what it felt to be married and have a partner in life and now I do not have one, not by my choice. But now I carry the stigma of being a “divorced woman.” A stigma people like you slap on me.
At least single people aren’t responsible for children as they are trying to have a social life. Try dating when there are a whole class of men who won’t even look at a woman with children. Or you worry that someone will target you for “romance” BECAUSE you have children.
Unlike some 25 year old girl, I have proven I can run a house, work, take care of a car, kids, upkeep, lawn, cooking, shopping and pets. Alone. With no help.
Maybe someday I’ll meet a man who sees me and others like me not as a damaged bitter divorced woman, but as someone who did our duty in spite of a difficult situation. And he will look beyond our lack of virginity and appreciate that we have virtues in other areas. And he won’t judge us by just one standard.
But being angry that women don’t chase you down the street is no way to attract them. Women can perceive anger and resentment you know. If deep down you think they are all shallow or sleazy or inferior to you spiritually, you’ll guarantee being alone the next 40 years.
I didn’t sign on for celibacy either. But I have too much to do to sit and think about how I’m “deprived” or something. And for the record, Jesus was celibate, and He was the world’s greatest lover. Because He didn’t reduce love to one physical act. Be a “lover” like that and the world will beat a path to YOUR door.
Signed:
Bitter divorcee
Oh, and we’re crabby because some jerk used up all our patience long ago. We don’t have time for foolishness or games or immaturity. Been there, done that.
If you don’t play games, aren’t foolish or immature, the light of her crabbiness won’t shine like a spotlight on you.
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
And Norseman, if you are simply looking for a wife so you have an outlet for your sexual needs for the rest of your life, do women a favor and never marry.
There are NO guarantees in life. What would you do if you were married and she became ill and you then had to go for years of celibacy? Would you be angry at her?
(I know a husband whose wife has been in a coma for 7 years. It does happen.)
Examine what you really want out of marriage.
Because you are giving an impression that is not flattering. You might want to be more specific.
If you met someone who checked all your boxes and agreed to marry you, would you do it just because she checked all your boxes and agreed to marry you? That sounds horrible.
People should marry because they have found someone who is worth the sacrifice of surrendering individual priveleges and rights and freedoms and the love they have makes them want to be with them forever. Not because they just came along and filled a need and satisfied your checklist. And yay, now you don’t have to be celibate anymore.
I hear the word celibate a lot in your posts. In an angry way.
I don’t hear much about how sad you are how much love you have to give some woman.
If you don’t have the one kind of love right, I promise you the sex isn’t going to be very good.
At least not for her.
When you cast love out there, it returns to you in abundance. I guess in a sense that’s what the bad boys appear to do in a kind of perverse way… they walk around with the air that they have much to give and they flirt with the women and there is always the promise of more. (At least till they get bored.)
Some of the most loved people I know are celibate men. Because they LOVE. Not in a narrow physical sense. And some of them have to be very careful because they attract women… not always because of the forbidden fruit thing, but by the sheer goodness of their personality and their capacity to love others. Women are attracted to that kind of person… the moral, good intelligent man who is outward looking.
The cad can put on that act, but she finds out there is no substance beyond the surface.
I tried to say it before… be more like THAT… learn from those who have to beat women off with a stick. Even some priests.
How you make someone feel when they are around you will determine whether they stay around you very long. The bad boy knows that. And it’s called manipulation. The naive fall for it.
The starting question for anyone is “how do I make other people feel when I am around them.” Be honest. It has nothing to do with whether you are bad or good. Maybe the good guys don’t succeed as much because they haven’t learned to take that goodness one step further and really share it with the world like the priest does.
There are NO guarantees in life. What would you do if you were married and she became ill and you then had to go for years of celibacy? Would you be angry at her?
(I know a husband whose wife has been in a coma for 7 years. It does happen.)
Examine what you really want out of marriage.
Because you are giving an impression that is not flattering. You might want to be more specific.
If you met someone who checked all your boxes and agreed to marry you, would you do it just because she checked all your boxes and agreed to marry you? That sounds horrible.
People should marry because they have found someone who is worth the sacrifice of surrendering individual priveleges and rights and freedoms and the love they have makes them want to be with them forever. Not because they just came along and filled a need and satisfied your checklist. And yay, now you don’t have to be celibate anymore.
I hear the word celibate a lot in your posts. In an angry way.
I don’t hear much about how sad you are how much love you have to give some woman.
If you don’t have the one kind of love right, I promise you the sex isn’t going to be very good.
At least not for her.
When you cast love out there, it returns to you in abundance. I guess in a sense that’s what the bad boys appear to do in a kind of perverse way… they walk around with the air that they have much to give and they flirt with the women and there is always the promise of more. (At least till they get bored.)
Some of the most loved people I know are celibate men. Because they LOVE. Not in a narrow physical sense. And some of them have to be very careful because they attract women… not always because of the forbidden fruit thing, but by the sheer goodness of their personality and their capacity to love others. Women are attracted to that kind of person… the moral, good intelligent man who is outward looking.
The cad can put on that act, but she finds out there is no substance beyond the surface.
I tried to say it before… be more like THAT… learn from those who have to beat women off with a stick. Even some priests.
How you make someone feel when they are around you will determine whether they stay around you very long. The bad boy knows that. And it’s called manipulation. The naive fall for it.
The starting question for anyone is “how do I make other people feel when I am around them.” Be honest. It has nothing to do with whether you are bad or good. Maybe the good guys don’t succeed as much because they haven’t learned to take that goodness one step further and really share it with the world like the priest does.
C
CountrySinger
Guest
Bravo. I didn’t want this quote the whole post, but this section rings true for me. I want a man worth living and dying for. Like in the song “Burn” by Jo Dee Messina, “live for me, die for us”. I might be naive waiting for love like that.
E
EvelynEVF
Guest
Bravo (a) indeed! My spiritual directors are a married couple, and one of their little sayings, through 30 years of marriage, is that they make love all day long. And then it isn’t a shock or an imposition or whatever at the end of a long day when one or both want to make it physical/sexual. And desire is a calling to love the spouse, in whatever way best serves the spouse. It’s not just a call to sex.
Be a man who can make love all day long, and you’ll practically end up with groupies
Be a man who can make love all day long, and you’ll practically end up with groupies
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
I see this on the high school level, Evelyn.
In an odd way, and not one I completely approve of.
The gay guys in the middle and high schools are EXTREMELY popular with the girls. The girls will come along and sit in their laps practically. They get invited everywhere. They have many close female friends. The girls LOVE them.
One of the straight guys I know grumbled about how it was probably all an act, being gay, just to get the girls.
Made me wonder why the girls were attracted so much.
Was it the “challenge?” No. The girls I talked to say that the guys are just delightful.
They really LIKE the girls. As human beings, not body parts. When the girls are around them, they feel valued as people. They feel like the friendship is for its own sake and not because the guy has an ulterior motive. There is a level of affection and trust there. The girls know they won’t get hurt by these guys. They’re treated with respect, for the most part. These guys are just loving to the girls.
Who wouldn’t respond to being treated with value and affection and respect?
I’ve seen the pattern too many times. And in a sense, I’m glad these girls are having a relationship with SOME guys who are treating them like that so they will always remember how it feels to be valued for who they are, not for how they look or whether the guy can score with them later.
More of the straight guys could learn a lesson or two from watching that.
Seriously… they also have to beat the girls off with a stick.
In an odd way, and not one I completely approve of.
The gay guys in the middle and high schools are EXTREMELY popular with the girls. The girls will come along and sit in their laps practically. They get invited everywhere. They have many close female friends. The girls LOVE them.
One of the straight guys I know grumbled about how it was probably all an act, being gay, just to get the girls.
Made me wonder why the girls were attracted so much.
Was it the “challenge?” No. The girls I talked to say that the guys are just delightful.
They really LIKE the girls. As human beings, not body parts. When the girls are around them, they feel valued as people. They feel like the friendship is for its own sake and not because the guy has an ulterior motive. There is a level of affection and trust there. The girls know they won’t get hurt by these guys. They’re treated with respect, for the most part. These guys are just loving to the girls.
Who wouldn’t respond to being treated with value and affection and respect?
I’ve seen the pattern too many times. And in a sense, I’m glad these girls are having a relationship with SOME guys who are treating them like that so they will always remember how it feels to be valued for who they are, not for how they look or whether the guy can score with them later.
More of the straight guys could learn a lesson or two from watching that.
Seriously… they also have to beat the girls off with a stick.
S
SeekingWisdom
Guest
Liberanos, you are seriously awesome! Can we go hang out? I echo your sentiments exactly, so much so that I don’t think I need to give Norseman any specifics about “being perfect”.
And Norseman, you presume way too much if you think I am a bitter divorcee. I am, as a matter of fact, a NEVER MARRIED VIRGIN OVER 35!!!
Sure I’m bitter, if you read the lengthy post I made the day I joined (which was a very low day for me), you will see that I am a little bitter about a few things that I am working through. You know what I used to be very bitter about? The fact that most of my friends got married and were not virgins at the time of their weddings, even though the grooms were! And the grooms knew it, and were ok with it. Because I used to think I “deserved” a husband–after all, I am a virgin. Technically, “perfect”, wouldn’t you say? 
Haha, the “technically perfect virgin”, who can’t find a man.
As far as raining on the OP’s parade, threads go where they go.
In any case, I think the definition of “nice” is subjective, and I guess the question would be how one seeks authentic manhood or womanhood to attract the sort of spouse they desire. Not “why does that girl like that cretin and not me”.
I echo your sentiments exactly, so much so that I don’t think I need to give Norseman any specifics about “being perfect”.And Norseman, you presume way too much if you think I am a bitter divorcee. I am, as a matter of fact, a NEVER MARRIED VIRGIN OVER 35!!!
Sure I’m bitter, if you read the lengthy post I made the day I joined (which was a very low day for me), you will see that I am a little bitter about a few things that I am working through. You know what I used to be very bitter about? The fact that most of my friends got married and were not virgins at the time of their weddings, even though the grooms were! And the grooms knew it, and were ok with it. Because I used to think I “deserved” a husband–after all, I am a virgin. Technically, “perfect”, wouldn’t you say? Haha, the “technically perfect virgin”, who can’t find a man.As far as raining on the OP’s parade, threads go where they go.
In any case, I think the definition of “nice” is subjective, and I guess the question would be how one seeks authentic manhood or womanhood to attract the sort of spouse they desire. Not “why does that girl like that cretin and not me”.
N
Nec5
Guest
This thread has kind of brought up a variation on an old saying I heard on another site.
Original: It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
New Version: Is is better to have sinned(fornicated) and repented than never to have sinned(fornicated) at all.
I don’t know about you folks, but this seems to be the new sentiment of everyone I know, whether they are Catholic, Christian, or otherwise. How unfortunate.
Original: It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
New Version: Is is better to have sinned(fornicated) and repented than never to have sinned(fornicated) at all.
I don’t know about you folks, but this seems to be the new sentiment of everyone I know, whether they are Catholic, Christian, or otherwise. How unfortunate.
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
Well, then you have missed the point completely, NEC.
This isn’t about fornicating.
What was it some saint said about MORE souls go to hell for sins of the flesh, but they are not the worst sins…
I didn’t say anything in my post about fornicating. You know, genital expressions of love are not the only kind.
There is nothing more overwhelming than the love of a mother for her child. Nothing genital about that.
You can be a lover without sinning. Ask Christ.
WHat did he say about those who repented? Well, the woman who was caught in sin, he let her wash his feet with her tears and perfume and dry them with her hair.
He knew her capacity to love was misplaced, but at least it was there.
Judas, who watched the spectacle, didn’t like it much. That money could have been better spent on something else. (Said he, who was stealling from the common purse. But I bet he wasn’t fornicating, being a zealot and all that.)
Who do you think Christ probably preferred?
Don’t lower your standards. But I see a whole lot of energy being wasted on resenting what sins other people are going to have to account for someday and not enough being spent on elevating society by showing the world that following Christ can be a source of joy and freedom rather than a cross you resent.
Are you a positive advertisement in your life for living a virtuous celibate lifestyle? Or do you make people observe you and rather than envy the peace you have (which fornicators often lose, by the way), they end up thinking if that’s being a good Catholic, and it makes you so miserable, they’re glad they don’t follow those rules.
Live your life so that others may want what you have. Don’t sit around and grouse about the fact that you don’t get to sin and you want what they have. That’s backwards!
This isn’t about fornicating.
What was it some saint said about MORE souls go to hell for sins of the flesh, but they are not the worst sins…
I didn’t say anything in my post about fornicating. You know, genital expressions of love are not the only kind.
There is nothing more overwhelming than the love of a mother for her child. Nothing genital about that.
You can be a lover without sinning. Ask Christ.
WHat did he say about those who repented? Well, the woman who was caught in sin, he let her wash his feet with her tears and perfume and dry them with her hair.
He knew her capacity to love was misplaced, but at least it was there.
Judas, who watched the spectacle, didn’t like it much. That money could have been better spent on something else. (Said he, who was stealling from the common purse. But I bet he wasn’t fornicating, being a zealot and all that.)
Who do you think Christ probably preferred?
Don’t lower your standards. But I see a whole lot of energy being wasted on resenting what sins other people are going to have to account for someday and not enough being spent on elevating society by showing the world that following Christ can be a source of joy and freedom rather than a cross you resent.
Are you a positive advertisement in your life for living a virtuous celibate lifestyle? Or do you make people observe you and rather than envy the peace you have (which fornicators often lose, by the way), they end up thinking if that’s being a good Catholic, and it makes you so miserable, they’re glad they don’t follow those rules.
Live your life so that others may want what you have. Don’t sit around and grouse about the fact that you don’t get to sin and you want what they have. That’s backwards!
A
ack
Guest
As far as I can tell, a few years ago, he went to a Catholic single’s event in Chicago where the presenter (maybe a “bitter divorcee?”) exhorted singles to focus on discerning God’s will and expend less energy looking for a mate – because God will place that mate in one’s path when the time comes.*Norseman, first, I’m married, happily…and not divorced. Second, you need to reread through the thread…you’re answering something that I didn’t say. The posters who are saying to be complete in Christ, are NOT suggesting to become complacent. I am not sure why you debate this point a lot…maybe we are just not understanding where you’re coming from.
And for what it’s worth, no one is attacking you. Everyone is giving their opinions, and frankly, they are really uplifting. You telling women that they are ‘bitter’ from divorce, is uncalled for. *
Apparently, this was a pivotal moment for him, because he has been referring to this incident and rebutting it ever since. I think I replied to him one of the previous times we had a discussion about this (isn’t funny how the same topics keep coming up on CAF?)…
Ditto.
C
chevalier
Guest
Don’t fall for the trap of “subjective”.
I’ve been litigating against my own Attorney General and one of their favourite evasion manoeuvres has been this is subjective, that is subjective… the thing is, while we won’t probe the exact boundaries of “nice”, “gloomy”, “yellow” or “red”, we don’t have to capitulate and consider the whole thing “subjective” in the sense that it were all in our mind and not verifiable in any way. If we stay in the general concept or if we check our definitions, we can very well have a meaningful discussion without reducing the subject to the most care thing we can think about! The second reason is that young adults don’t think in terms of authentic manhood or womanhood. They’re either attracted or not - and even with this, they have problems (the heart wants this guy or girl, the mind wants that guy or girl, and there’s the fashion, the local opinion, the social pressure and so on). Don’t know about you, but I’ll admit it took me ages to figure out what I wanted… or for the idea to sink in.
On a curious note, then, I was at my father’s, whom I had been seeing, along with that part of my family, around every month or so, possibly every week by then (with a gap from my mid teens to early twenties, where we didn’t meet or talk). So another joke about me circulated the table. Suddenly dad said I had until 30 to find a woman, then he would pick for me (he was joking, obviously
). My brilliant sister asked, “do you have anyone in mind?” And he said, “Yes,” and either at that or some later meeting, a brief description followed. I was like, “Where? How did you…?” (As is very much hit home.) To be honest, I’ve been curious ever since.
C
chevalier
Guest
By the way, the answers to, “why does that girl like that cretin and not me,” are three:
- She’s not that smart,
- He’s not that dumb,
- I’m not that smart.
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
Awesome answer!
I’m intrigued who your father would pick out for you. Sometimes relatives can see things we cannot.
I’m intrigued who your father would pick out for you. Sometimes relatives can see things we cannot.
S
shannyk
Guest
Liberano, if you write a book, I’ll buy it. Just sayin’.
C
CountrySinger
Guest
My familiy also says if I’m not married by the time I’m 30, they are going to get me a husband or throw me in a convent. My best guy friend is gay, and we joke that if we reach thirty, we should just get married.
My best guy friend is gay, and we joke that if we reach thirty, we should just get married.
D
dulcissima
Guest
Me too!Liberano, if you write a book, I’ll buy it. Just sayin’.
I’ve been a fan since the first day she started posting here.
S
SeekingWisdom
Guest
Sometimes I wish I was not an orphan, so that my parents could have just picked for me.Awesome answer!
I’m intrigued who your father would pick out for you. Sometimes relatives can see things we cannot.
C
chevalier
Guest
Tall auburn-haired young Catholic lady that would apparently be able to cope with me (“Dad, you don’t do that to any woman.” “Oh, she could handle you.” “…”) . It loses much in translation.Awesome answer!
I’m intrigued who your father would pick out for you. Sometimes relatives can see things we cannot.
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
Oh, that translates well in ANY language!Well, you be sure to give us updates.
Something tells me the old man knows what he’s doing. And if he has enough of a rapport with her that he has figured she can handle you, then she knows him enough… a smart girl knows that often you can learn a lot about a man by studying his father…
W
whatevergirl
Guest
Me too…you could use Liberanosamalo as your writing alias.Liberano, if you write a book, I’ll buy it. Just sayin’.
We would only be the wiser, here. - Status