Nice guys finish last belief

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*Nice guys …my definition, are those that put God and others first before themselves. Highschool/college age ‘nice’ guys were those that took their studies seriously, were not having sex, and were not interested in getting drunk every weekend. Or any weekend, really. They don’t come with drama, and are relatively mature…and their moms and dads taught them how to treat women. I found this in my husband…he is one of the nice guys, and far from boring. He definitely likes to have fun, but when we met, he was genuine, and very forward with me. I don’t believe nice guys are automatically shy. My dh was not shy, perhaps, that was because he was in his 30’s, and was tired of playing the field, and wanted to find his wife by that point. I dunno.

A key thing that a ‘nice’ guy does, is apologizes when he’s wrong. Note to the single here…do not continue a relationship with someone who never apologizes when they hurt your feelings. (I mean truly hurt your feelings, all things considered) Not someone you should consider marrying. 🤓

But, that’s my definition. Remember what Christ said too…those who are last here, are first in heaven. 😉 So, even if you feel like you rate second place in this world, Christ speaks these words for you! :)*
 
In my opinion, the nice guys are the ones that really don’t place themselves abruptly in the path of girls or do not actively engage the opposite sex they way secular men do. As I understand it, to a degree, woman want to be perused and the common trait of those labeled nice guys are the ones that let the other demographic do the pursuing, especially if the social scenes deplete one’s level of virtue.
An important point there - the “bad guys” will make a woman feel more strongly desired, which is already important to a woman, and it may also make her feel more loved, if she isn’t prepared to notice that the two don’t always go together. A nice man simply won’t come down so hard - and if he will, he will do so verbally, which will sound like creepy whining and accosting, as opposed to the more natural (i.e. primordial) way the “bad guy” does it - the “hands on” way.

Plus, just like in any game, those who break the rules gain advantage over those who don’t. Think of war between a party that obeys the Geneva convention and one that doesn’t. Or a lawsuit between a party that will lie and a party that will not. Or a young actress who will not sleep with the producer vs one that will. Or a hacking player in a computer multiplayer game vs the one that doesn’t use hacks to improve his chance of winning the game (i.e. by illegally upgrading his character or weapon or some such). Cheaters always have advantage. Bad guys will be more successful in the short run because they won’t be constrained by the rules. In the long run, however, cheaters generally tend to lose. By the way, “bad boys” are sometimes more like a rebel against the system than like a cheater in a game, so you’d need to modify my example.
 
But why do SO MANY women want the “bad boy” persona in a man? What keeps them from wanting the good guy? If women are all about what’s inside a guy rather than outside, why does it seem overwhelmingly that women want bad boys?
For the same reasons they gave us the forbidden fruit. I want my rib back.

And yes, I’m joking. Well, mostly.🙂
 
For the same reasons they gave us the forbidden fruit. I want my rib back.

And yes, I’m joking. Well, mostly.🙂
At least we get to blame them as temptresses when we mess up. 🙂
 
There is an age when a lot of young women are attracted to it. (The same reason why James Dean was a heartthrob and Jimmy Stewart wasn’t.) They outgrow it. You don’t see a lot of older women pining after bad boys. They’re too busy hoping their sons don’t grow up to be one.

Just like there is a certain age a lot of guys go through when they ignore the sweet girl in church who sits at home on Friday nights and goes out with the trashily-dressed bar girl.

See how fun generalities can be?

😉

The bad boy is bolder. He woos the girl. She falls in love. With what she thinks is a nice guy. She doesn’t fall out of love as quickly as you think she should.

The meek may inherit the earth, but they’re not going to win the girl in time. Unless she’s one of those that the bad boy hasn’t noticed and made his advances on and/or she has people in her life who can see through the act and warn her.
 
Liberanos, there is the bad girl problem too, sure. I suppose when I would like to say it’s bigger with women, you might want to say contrary, it’s bigger with men, which would kinda prove that we were playing ping-pong.

I don’t necessarily agree with the bolder thing. That kind of boldness often comes with disrespect for the woman or with not so virtuous attempts at seducing the girl rather sexually. It’s not true courage.

Anyway, this discussion makes it look like life’s all about women (or men) and it exaggerates some real or perceived injuries or grudges and deepens the divide unnecessarily. In reality, this specific issue is not so black and white with the “good girls”. If we’re talking about women who simply are after violence and rudeness, then that’s not the description of a wife a Catholic man would be seeking.

Sigh. I wasn’t exactly chasing the church girls myself when I was 20. Being stupid costs. But you won’t get any more confessions out of me in this thread.
 
Chevalier, I’m surprised you’re so young. Really. I thought you were older. You still have plenty of time to find that Miss Right.

Most women don’t look for violence. And bold is different from courageous.

Courage is when you know the risks and act in spite of the fear.

Bold is acting sometimes even without thinking. The nuns never used “bold” in a good way when they accused someone of being “bold.”

But when nice guys ignore the nice girls (because the flashy girls are so much more appealing) then it leaves the nice girls available for the guy who knows just what to say and what to do to woo her.

When you’re younger, it works better.

A lot of women get to a certain age and know to roll their eyes or walk away.

That’s why a lot of not so nice men keep chasing a parade of ever younger more naive girls.

I guess that’s it… being naive can leave you vulnerable to the “bad boy.”
 
You still have plenty of time to find that Miss Right.
Of course! Wasn’t complaining anyway. I came very clearly to understand that a person’s taste in the opposite gender is part of his or her personality (and rarely an isolated single problem), so you can’t change it without changing the person’s personality and if matters are so, then it simply mean your personalities are not compatible… so move on. As I see it, some guys have a problem arriving here and I would very much like to help them get here because it really changes perspective and you don’t want to go back once you’re here. Besides, in my very own case, there’s a lot of reason why I’m where I am with such matters because I’m clearly work in progress.
Most women don’t look for violence. And bold is different from courageous.
Courage is when you can act despite fear (lack of fear being a different matter, usually a bad thing) - being bold has more to do with rashness or a form of audacity which goes against certain “taboos”. A “bold” man in the context of courting suggests a man that moves rather farther than he would be expected to. Not always a bad thing, but it has that connotation. By the way, it’s very much connected with risk-taking (it’s practically synonymous to it), which is a quality women seek in men, at least in so far as it concerns finding the mate with whom to have children (things possibly being different when it’s about bringing children up, though I don’t buy the theory of “biology” suggesting one man for begetting children and another for bringing them up).
Courage is when you know the risks and act in spite of the fear.
In some languages, there’s more than one word for courage and the word which literally translates as “manliness” is one of the words for courage. It’s like that in ancient Greek or in Polish and somewhat like that in Latin. Our ancestors were more up to the point and had less baggage of civilisation to affect their judgement of human nature, so I guess we can trust them on that one and derive some conclusions. In my opinion, just as men learn to differentiate silly bravado from courage, so do women switch from admiring the one to admiring the other. Again, no particular gripe here at all - we all have the right to grow up at our own pace.
Bold is acting sometimes even without thinking. The nuns never used “bold” in a good way when they accused someone of being “bold.”
Yeah, for example Charles the Bold, the last (guess why) duke of Burgundy.
But when nice guys ignore the nice girls (because the flashy girls are so much more appealing) then it leaves the nice girls available for the guy who knows just what to say and what to do to woo her.
Yes, but sometimes all men except the “bold” risk-takers are intimidated by a very attractive woman, the result being rather “improbable” pairings. I know that it works the other way, too, women being intimidated by men they think to be “not their league”, but I don’t know how often that happens.

By the way, in my impression, it doesn’t come down to manliness, because effeminate guys also have much luck. Now when the ladies grow up a bit, the aforementioned types get bloody slaughtered and the alpha geeks rule the field. 😛 Just kidding. 😉
I guess that’s it… being naive can leave you vulnerable to the “bad boy.”
And likewise the “bad girl”, though I’d say the “femme fatale” would probably be a bigger problem than the “bad girl” with guys. More destructive potential, too. In order to offer some balance, I’ve got to say you’re right on young men, on average - they will tend to go for the easier conquest (most of them) when they’re interested in “getting some action” (from kissing or holding hands to outright sexual intercourse) or chase the femme fatale because of the sick charm of it (or because of “saving the damsel” complex). Don’t know how it goes with flashy girls, but I guess they get a following when they show they’re available - the guys think they aren’t wasting their time because, well, she’s available, but end up outmanoeuvred and… having wasted a huge deal of time. Being young and naive hurts. This probably makes everyone ask why then those good guys and those good girls, who don’t get noticed, mutually notice themselves… but err… I don’t know.
 
As I just mentioned in another thread I also almost missed my nice guy husband as he was somewhat introverted and I thought (mistakenly) could be a bit naive, boring and square. How wrong I was! He never, ever bores me I find him fascinating.

I think what it boils down to is sexual attraction. Men and women often find confidence, physical attractiveness (a sign of good health) and boldness exciting. Of course we can then overlook the not-so-great qualities that a person may or may not have who is confident, attractive and bold such as kindness and diligence. When we are young and/or immature we may let our attraction to the person blind us.

However I think some mystery is healthy and cultures that acknowledge the need to preserve some mystery between men and women such as in Italy usually have a more sensual way of relating than in the US for example. In Italy a guy can be nice and exciting at the same time (I lived there and visited a few weeks ago) same for the women. Life has a lot more “frisson” and sexual tension there and makes life fun but not inappropriate.
 
As I just mentioned in another thread I also almost missed my nice guy husband as he was somewhat introverted and I thought (mistakenly) could be a bit naive, boring and square. How wrong I was! He never, ever bores me I find him fascinating.

I think what it boils down to is sexual attraction. Men and women often find confidence, physical attractiveness (a sign of good health) and boldness exciting. Of course we can then overlook the not-so-great qualities that a person may or may not have who is confident, attractive and bold such as kindness and diligence. When we are young and/or immature we may let our attraction to the person blind us.

However I think some mystery is healthy and cultures that acknowledge the need to preserve some mystery between men and women such as in Italy usually have a more sensual way of relating than in the US for example. In Italy a guy can be nice and exciting at the same time (I lived there and visited a few weeks ago) same for the women. Life has a lot more “frisson” and sexual tension there and makes life fun but not inappropriate.
*[SIGN]Being Italian is great![/SIGN]

Sorry, had to say that…My dad was born in Italy, and he was very romantic with my mom, from what I can remember being a kid. I can see what you’re saying.*
 
[sign]Being Italian is great![/sign]

Sorry, had to say that…My dad was born in Italy, and he was very romantic with my mom, from what I can remember being a kid. I can see what you’re saying.
Non posso che essere d’accordo. Essere italiano è incredibile. :cool:
 
Liberano, I loved your list near the top of the thread. And Kit15 your husband sounds quirky and wonderful 🙂

I am a good girl through and through. And yet I am in the process of divorcing a clone of Liberano’s husband, after more than a decade of abuse. Which I endured because, of course, I am a good girl and this was my cross to bear. Oops.

If my marriage is eventually declared null, I am coming to the point where I would be open to remarrying. One thing I am really enjoying about this marital limbo I’m in, is that it is totally clear to any man with two brain cells to rub together, that I am Not Available. So I get to be unambiguously friendly with some really great Catholic men.

It has been a real eye-opener to me, to see what kind of treatment I should be expecting and accepting from men who have no interest in romantic pursuit. While my xh was very charming until we were married, it probably only felt so good because I wasn’t used to it. Now my standards are a good bit higher.

If I ever do remarry, it will be to a man who treated me with honor even when we were “just” friends, who didn’t turn it on and off based on his romantic interest in a woman.

I agree with Liberano when she says that guys may need to take that extra step to make it clear to a woman that they are interested, but at the same time, I would encourage men to make a point of treating all women with honor, not because you want to win her, but because it makes you a better man.

And don’t get too frustrated if it all seems so slow. Your Cinderella may be recovering from a wicked prince!
 
nice guy, bad guy…what really matters is that he’s a guy with a spine and a guy with convictions that he stands by. Those guys are hard to find.
 
I’ve always loved geeky guys. Of course, I like video games, computers, gadgets, etc. In college, I had a record deal, and got all these sexy clothes. So I would go the engineering hall, with sexy clothes on, hair and makeup in full country star mode. And the guys would literally stop in their tracks. At my school, there might only be one or two girls in enigineering at any time, so they didn’t see many women. After that, my weekends were filled with dates with them. Maybe I should do that again!
 
The problem with “nice guys” is that they are usually a bit too subservient, and lack confidence. A woman shouldn’t be looking for a “nice guy”, but for a “real man”, who knows himself, knows where he is going, and is looking for someone to come along for the ride.
 
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