Nice guys finish last belief

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Did somebody mention vodka? AAAAAAAAAAAAA :love:

Havard: I’ll take that even further:
Somebody you like is too busy for you? His loss. Move on.
He has a crush on someone else? His loss. Move on.
He’s not over his ex? His loss. Move on.
He can’t get his rear in gear to ask you out? His loss. Move on.
He’s not mature enough for relationship material? His loss. Move on.

I trust you are getting the idea.
Especially for women: Men in general are especially adept at this skill. We would do well to learn from them.
Men: yeah
 
I think the ‘nice guys finish last’ notion is utterly false. First, love isn’t a competition, and it’s certainly not a race. There’s nothing romantic about rushing to the altar, nor is it sensible. Second, if a potential interest chooses a thoughtless, rude, or even mean person over you, that potential interest obviously lacked good judgment, so why beat yourself up over him or her? Would you really want a person like that as the mother/father of your children?
I used to think like that but then if you consider that some people may be lacking in that aspect of judgement alone and if so, then possibly only as a result of inexperience on top of it, then it stops being so easy and all-clear.

I suppose the notion comes from the fact that women supposedly begin to appreciate the certain qualities in men only in mid to late twenties, possibly later. Not like men would be that much better, mind you, as there is certainly a counterpart to the bad boy problem on our side of things.
Havard: I’ll take that even further:
Somebody you like is too busy for you? His loss. Move on.
He has a crush on someone else? His loss. Move on.
He’s not over his ex? His loss. Move on.
He can’t get his rear in gear to ask you out? His loss. Move on.
He’s not mature enough for relationship material? His loss. Move on.

I trust you are getting the idea.
Especially for women: Men in general are especially adept at this skill. We would do well to learn from them.
Men: yeah
Sometimes shyness or hurts come in the way, making a person with otherwise satisfactory potential rather disadvantaged. I think I’ve collected a lot of negative points for some such things in my life (in which I see more merit now than I did then :p), though I don’t know about how otherwise satisfactory I would have been, possibly not so much after all. In fact, that’s kinda likely, but anyway.

As for crushes on other people, those are complicated and they don’t necessarily make a person bad material for the one who isn’t his or her crush. Well, as long, obviously, as the person isn’t invincibly determined on acting on the ill-placed crush. Think unresolved opportunities from the past, now-available old unrequired flames reappearing and all sorts of other things. The problem with crushes on other people is obviously that you don’t want to come in between the person you love and want best for and that person’s chosen object of affections (well, maybe if you know it’s a harmful choice).
 
I suppose the notion comes from the fact that women supposedly begin to appreciate the certain qualities in men only in mid to late twenties, possibly later. Not like men would be that much better, mind you, as there is certainly a counterpart to the bad boy problem on our side of things
Women will appreciate a nice guy more as they get older, because they are looking for stability etc…

In general, I think the problem is most nice guy Catholics are just plain boring too. It’s fine to be boring, and not a sin, but it’s not attractive.

I don’t know if its OCD or what, but I used to have the mindset of needing everything about a woman to be perfect, while being the same guy who didn’t go out and have fun.

The more I’ve lived life, the less I’ve cared about things being perfect.

Being attractive is a state of mind, not what you look like, or the clothes you wear. So be nice, but make sure that’s not all there is.
 
I used to think like that but then if you consider that some people may be lacking in that aspect of judgement alone and if so, then possibly only as a result of inexperience on top of it, then it stops being so easy and all-clear.

I suppose the notion comes from the fact that women supposedly begin to appreciate the certain qualities in men only in mid to late twenties, possibly later. Not like men would be that much better, mind you, as there is certainly a counterpart to the bad boy problem on our side of things.
With respect, I don’t see how anything that you said negates or diminishes my outlook.

If a woman chooses to date, be courted by, or become engaged to a ‘not nice guy’, whether or not she is only lacking in that one aspect of judgment, or in many aspects, it is still no longer the business of the ‘nice guy’ who pines over her. He may voice his opinion, but once made, he should respect her wishes.

As for age, of course people tend to make better decisions as they get older, but again I fail to see why that might attenuate the outlook I hold.
 
If a woman chooses to date, be courted by, or become engaged to a ‘not nice guy’, whether or not she is only lacking in that one aspect of judgment, or in many aspects, it is still no longer the business of the ‘nice guy’ who pines over her. He may voice his opinion, but once made, he should respect her wishes.

As for age, of course people tend to make better decisions as they get older, but again I fail to see why that might attenuate the outlook I hold.
I agree- if a woman is willing to take risks by marrying a bad boy or simply not so nice guy, that is her decision whether it’s smart or not. If the nice guy can convince her otherwise by fighting through his shyness and literally sweeping her off her feet, right on and go for it! Courage, personal strength and confidence are really important for both men and women in a relationship, but especially men when they are trying to court a woman.

Age plays a big role. No disrespect to people that married young, but one of my rules for myself is not to marry before age 27. I want to have a few more years of dating knowledge before committing. I currently know nothing due to my age of 18, which is why I’m posting on this thread. No matter how old or young, we can all learn a great deal about this.
 
I want to know what the people on these forums think of this belief that girls aren’t attracted to nice guys. I have read on the internet that people say this is because of animal instincts, but why would God make people have to break His own rules to be able to get in a relationship?:confused:
That’s ridiculous. I would love to date a “nice guy” rather than the jerks who have broken my heart so far. Girls who don’t like nice guys need their heads screwed on straight.

Best of luck.
 
That’s ridiculous. I would love to date a “nice guy” rather than the jerks who have broken my heart so far. Girls who don’t like nice guys need their heads screwed on straight.

Best of luck.
The phrase “nice guys” in this saying doesn’t literally mean nice guys; it’s a euphemism for inassertive doormats.
 
The phrase “nice guys” in this saying doesn’t literally mean nice guys; it’s a euphemism for assertive doormats.
Not necessarily. A guy can be nice while having confidence and personal strength. Sane people don’t want someone to walk all over. I’d rather have someone that would challenge me rather than cower. Assertive guys are not shy to ask a girl out, or simply be honest in how they feel about someone.
 
Not necessarily. A guy can be nice while having confidence and personal strength. Sane people don’t want someone to walk all over. I’d rather have someone that would challenge me rather than cower. Assertive guys are not shy to ask a girl out, or simply be honest in how they feel about someone.
Please read my post again. I know what the literal meaning of “nice” is, and I know that it is possible to be nice and still be confident/assertive at the same time, but that’s not the point at all. While it may be misleading, the saying is NOT referring to “nice guys” in the literal sense that you’re thinking of. It was created as a euphemism by ineffectual or unassertive men who didn’t want to acknowledge this as the root cause of their problem with women, so instead they tried to rationalize it as being “nice”.
 
In general, I think the problem is most nice guy Catholics are just plain boring too. It’s fine to be boring, and not a sin, but it’s not attractive.
Sometimes I have the impression that mystery has to be there and it’s boring without mystery, but when you allow yourself to be read by a woman and show yourself to her… friend zone. This is an emotional reaction and if it were a judgement, it would be an unjust one, but…
Being attractive is a state of mind, not what you look like, or the clothes you wear. So be nice, but make sure that’s not all there is.
Generally agreed, but appearance plays a big role, including in women’s perception of men.
 
With respect, I don’t see how anything that you said negates or diminishes my outlook.

If a woman chooses to date, be courted by, or become engaged to a ‘not nice guy’, whether or not she is only lacking in that one aspect of judgment, or in many aspects, it is still no longer the business of the ‘nice guy’ who pines over her. He may voice his opinion, but once made, he should respect her wishes.
I see. I was under the impression that you implied that by virtue of choosing the bad guy, the woman was proving herself not very great material either, which was a view I used to hold (still do but not as strictly). Sorry if I misread you.
 
It’s so weird 'cause here I’m thinking nice girls finish last. Every nice guy that I meet either has a girlfriend or is married. I think it goes both ways, girls can be attracted to bad boys and nice guys can be attracted to bad girls. It’s tough out there, but we have to be patient and let God bring whomever He wants us to be with into our lives. Adam didn’t go looking for Eve. God brought her to him in His own time. You’re not alone. There are plenty of nice girls out there looking for a genuinely nice guy.
 
Please read my post again. I know what the literal meaning of “nice” is, and I know that it is possible to be nice and still be confident/assertive at the same time, but that’s not the point at all. While it may be misleading, the saying is NOT referring to “nice guys” in the literal sense that you’re thinking of. It was created as a euphemism by ineffectual or unassertive men who didn’t want to acknowledge this as the root cause of their problem with women, so instead they tried to rationalize it as being “nice”.
I think we’ve experienced miscommunication, sorry about that.
 
Generally agreed, but appearance plays a big role, including in women’s perception of men.
In my experience, specific aspects of appearance can be huge factors in how women perceive men. I think it’s generally true that women pay more initial attention to personality, intelligence and character than men do, but the problem is that certain physical qualities are (or are believed to be) indicators of character traits. A woman will honestly believe she’s rejecting a man for a character defect, when in reality she simply thinks he has that defect because he has the associated physical marker.

I have one of the worst examples - a weak (retrognathic) jaw, which is the universal indicator of weak character. And there’s probably some truth in that, since the defect can be caused by low testosterone in childhood. The defect warns women that I’m not someone they can count on as a protector or provider, and they respond accordingly.

In dating, physical defects are the hardest to overcome because they’re the first thing a person sees. I never get that first date because a women can see, literally from across the room, that I’m an unsuitable mate.
 
It’s so weird 'cause here I’m thinking nice girls finish last. Every nice guy that I meet either has a girlfriend or is married. I think it goes both ways, girls can be attracted to bad boys and nice guys can be attracted to bad girls. It’s tough out there, but we have to be patient and let God bring whomever He wants us to be with into our lives. Adam didn’t go looking for Eve. God brought her to him in His own time. You’re not alone. There are plenty of nice girls out there looking for a genuinely nice guy.
that was nicely put. 😉

I’ve been quietly lurking in this thread and here’s my thoughts…

I used to know a lot of “nice guys” who were just that - nice. And while I’m not proud of this fact, I found those guys were the ones that I could easily depend on for things I needed help with, so I found myself taking them for granted. Had they been more assertive I probably would’ve had more respect for them. :o I’m not saying I behaved that way consciously - like, I didn’t wake up every morning and think, “how can I use ‘john’ today?”…but that’s what would end up happening. I would feel guilty about how I was behaving so I would do things to make up, to repay them - b/c that’s what I thought they wanted in return. Because I was away from my Christian faith during those years, those behaviors really just ended up hurting myself as well as them. I wasn’t ever refused, so it was just a nasty vicious cycle. It didn’t dawn on me until many years later how I was just making things worse. Because of my actions and immaturity, not to mention lack of practicing Christian values, I was perpetuating their mindset of “nice guys finish last”. I wasn’t really ever their girlfriend. I was their friend w/occasional kickbacks.

I used to think I was the nice girl trying to land a “nice” man, and could never understand why that wasn’t happening. My standards weren’t nearly as high as some of my friends. For one, I had never really put physical attraction at the top of the list. In fact, my experience was that the guys I found really attractive were seriously lacking in the personality department, not to mention, some of them were just flat out jerks to the point of abusive sometimes. They didn’t want a girl like me, they wanted the bimbo that pole danced in the club, or worse, they wanted me to act like that girl.

What I liked most about what Teresa said here is that God gives us our mates (if that’s His will for our lives) in His time. Had I stayed that girl I was, I would’ve made a horrible wife. When I met my husband, I initally wanted nothing to do w/him. I was on total man-strike. I wanted to be by myself. Too many bad things had happend and I needed a refocusing period. Not to mention, I wasn’t initially attracted to him at all. About the only thing he did have was dark hair, so that was a plus…lol… but I had always dated bigger guys - 6 ft. plus. He was average in build, average in height (but still taller than me), he smoked and had really long hair & braces (& we were in our early 20’s). He also had a small common birth defect that had been surgically repaired, so it wasn’t that noticeable, but still there. Bottom line: normally not the guy that would make me look twice. To me, he was just another “nice” guy…or so I thought. In fact, the first time I went out with him it was just to be nice!
One of the only reasons I went, too, was that it wasn’t just us. We met mutual friends out to play pool. I figured we’d have nothing in common, I’d hang out w/my friends, and that would be it.
But little did I know at the time, God put him in my life for a reason, I just had to wait for the reason to show itself. I had to grow as a person and clean up my life. Even after about a year into our relationship, I was still waiting for whatever was wrong with him to surface. (not that I ever told him that! :o)
We dated for 5 yrs before we got married. He was Catholic but not practicing when we met. Now we’re both raging Catholics :D.
When I look back on those years, I see my life with this “nice guy” as though it was a book. Everything happened for a reason and if anything were to have been different, I wouldn’t be sitting here married to him or have the beautiful children that we have.
He was more than just nice, though. He had a sense of who he was, where he was going, and what he wanted from life, and the best part was that he was able to handle all my crazy w/o ever walking out.
I even remember the first time I thought “I could marry this guy” b/c I knew on top of everything else, he would protect me. We were at a club and some wierd dude was sort of hassling me…following me around…stuff like that. As we left, this guy goes, “hey baby, you leav’n with him…” and he sort of grabbed my arm. In like this freakish flash of a second, my (now) husband, grabbed the guy by the collar, pushed him up against the wall and goes, “ENOUGH!” And as soon as he said it, he let him go, turned around and we walked away! I was like, “Aaah, no way that just happened!” I had never seen him like that before, and I’ve only seen him like that once since (longer story). But it wasn’t a Billy Bad-A** maneuver. It was just him being him. Being “nice” - protecting me. And now that I think about it, I guess he was last. The “last” guy I ever dated. 👍
In God’s time people, in God’s time…
 
Interesting topic! For me I think that it all depends on what one defines the trait of “nice” as being. Some people confuse being nice with being weak and gullible when in reality it’s not. I personally wouldn’t want to be with a woman who wants a man that will treat her like last weeks garbage. I think part of the problem with women who think that way is that they think that they can change the so called “bad boy” around and “save” him and when they find out different in the relationship and get there hearts broken and crushed they then get into the mode of believing that there aren’t any good men out there and that all men are rotten dogs even though that sociopathic behavior is what seemed to be a big part of what attracted them to the man in the first place. The thing is for anybody,man or woman,one has to look in the mirror most def and do a self check up and ask why they find themself in that same scenario each and every relationship they get off into. And same goes for them dudes out there too thinking they can “save” some woman and all that, they gotta realize that they can’t make someone love them or like them or change their ways and ideology around unless they truly want to and understand why they choose to do so.

In a sense thats like idolatry being that the individual is putting that person of interest on a pedistal and acting as if they can make no mistake and their fart smells like roses. The fact that they got to realize is that that individual is human and is subseptable to make a mistake,break a promise,tell a lie,ect. Only God is perfect which leads to the first commandment of loving the Lord above all else. Seek His kingdom first and all else shall follow. I do understand though that not all are rooted in God to fully understand that and that in society the message of love,self worth,true happiness and ect. is quite contrary and very anti-Christian all together. All in all I just wish the best for all out there & to those dudes out there who feel like giving up don’t give up or fall into hating women. There are good women out there that do got their heads on straight just keep your heads up and stay rooted and confident in the Lord Jesus and you can’t go wrong.And oh yea…not everything that glitters is gold. God bless to all on here and everywhere!!! 🙂
 
I used to know a lot of “nice guys” who were just that - nice. And while I’m not proud of this fact, I found those guys were the ones that I could easily depend on for things I needed help with, so I found myself taking them for granted. Had they been more assertive I probably would’ve had more respect for them. :o
:tiphat: Thank you for saying that and please do not think that I’m in any way exhibiting a grudge when I say I believe that is the factor “whereof we speak”, basically the core of the matter.
I used to think I was the nice girl trying to land a “nice” man, and could never understand why that wasn’t happening. My standards weren’t nearly as high as some of my friends. For one, I had never really put physical attraction at the top of the list. In fact, my experience was that the guys I found really attractive were seriously lacking in the personality department, not to mention, some of them were just flat out jerks to the point of abusive sometimes. They didn’t want a girl like me, they wanted the bimbo that pole danced in the club, or worse, they wanted me to act like that girl.
Sorry to hear what you went through. I’m glad to hear it’s way over and you’re happily married now. 🙂
 
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