Nicolas Coppola, gay catholic who married, is banned from church duties, was this right?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seaborgium
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
When someone says they will never believe something, that’s a sure sign that they are not open to the truth. While it may be that the truth is on my side in my current belief, to say that I will never agree with someone who believes differently is to say that if I find out that truth is different than what I think, I will never accept it. There are plenty of things I felt confident were true that I have come to realize were wrong. Coming to Christ is a huge lesson in humility.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
This assumes I believe Catholic doctrine that being gay is a sin. I don’t.
Click to expand...
That is not what the Church teaches.

Same sex attraction is a disorder, not a sin. Acting on same sex attraction is objectively immoral and a sin against the sixth commandment.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
This is an indefensible theological opinion. It’s creating a moral double standard.
Click to expand...
Given you pick and choose what doctrines of the Church you want to believe it does surprise me you reject the Popes statement. But the Truth is the Church does now and always has allowed for the death penalty.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
This is an indefensible theological opinion. It’s creating a moral double standard.
Click to expand...
You call a statement by the Pope “an indefensible theological opinion”? Wow! Should we dress you in white and call you “Holy Father” instead?

The statement you rejected was directly attributed to the Pope, and was simply a re-wording of the previously quoted excerpt from the Catechism listed above.

What exactly do you see as theologically indefensible, and what are your qualifications in Moral Theology and Philosophy that leads you to question the Pope and the Magisterium of the Church on a topic which is not considered to be controversial by most catholics?
 
anruari said:
You call a statement by the Pope “an indefensible theological opinion”? Wow! Should we dress you in white and call you “Holy Father” instead?

The statement you rejected was directly attributed to the Pope, and was simply a re-wording of the previously quoted excerpt from the Catechism listed above.

What exactly do you see as theologically indefensible, and what are your qualifications in Moral Theology and Philosophy that leads you to question the Pope and the Magisterium of the Church on a topic which is not considered to be controversial by most catholics?
Click to expand...
Yeah the hyperbole is not helpful. I make no claim to be the Pope although as a baptized Catholic ya never know in the future (:rolleyes: kidding).

Tell me please how it is morally defensible to suggest abortion is never wrong, but the death penalty eh feel free to disagree? Are we still not killing human beings? This just seems wrong. If this isn’t controversial amongst Catholics I think that says more about Catholics than morality.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
This assumes I believe Catholic doctrine that being gay is a sin. I don’t.
Click to expand...
So you are a relativist? You get to decide what’s “wrong for you” and ignore what the Church teaches?

I’m sorry, but that’s indefensible, both to us and to yourself.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
Yeah the hyperbole is not helpful. I make no claim to be the Pope although as a baptized Catholic ya never know in the future (:rolleyes: kidding).

Tell me please how it is morally defensible to suggest abortion is never wrong, but the death penalty eh feel free to disagree? Are we still not killing human beings? This just seems wrong. If this isn’t controversial amongst Catholics I think that says more about Catholics than morality.
Click to expand...
Abortion is an intrinsic evil. Capital punishment is not. It doesn’t matter what we “feel” What matter is what the Church teaches.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
Tell me please how it is morally defensible to suggest abortion is never wrong, but the death penalty eh feel free to disagree? Are we still not killing human beings? This just seems wrong. If this isn’t controversial amongst Catholics I think that says more about Catholics than morality.
Click to expand...
No one has suggested abortion is not wrong. I’m not sure where you got that.

Capital punishment, as with anything else, is taught about by the Church. If you are a Catholic, and you accept the teaching of the Church, you should have no difficulty understanding.

Abortion has to do with killing an innocent human being without any provocation or legitimate reason. Capital punishment has to do with killing a guilty or dangerous human being who has done a serious crime. If you can’t see the difference, open your eyes.
 
dshix said:
So you are a relativist? You get to decide what’s “wrong for you” and ignore what the Church teaches?

I’m sorry, but that’s indefensible, both to us and to yourself.
Click to expand...
Maybe to you, but not to me. It’s solely defensible in my own relationship with God.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
Yeah the hyperbole is not helpful. I make no claim to be the Pope although as a baptized Catholic ya never know in the future (:rolleyes: kidding).

Tell me please how it is morally defensible to suggest abortion is never wrong, but the death penalty eh feel free to disagree? Are we still not killing human beings? This just seems wrong. If this isn’t controversial amongst Catholics I think that says more about Catholics than morality.
Click to expand...
The biggest difference is that one human being is innocent and the other is guilty. It’s never ok to kill an innocent person but would you object to someone who kills another in self defense? How much have you read on the church’s teachings on capital punishment?
 
stlcatholic86 said:
I suppose I will put it simple the Catholic teaching on homosexuality is cruel. Those aren’t my words but rather a Priest in the church. I agree with that assessment.
Click to expand...
Have you actually read the churches teaching on the issues surrounding sexuality… The actual church teachings, not the misinterpretations bandied about by the secular media, and ill informed laity and clergy alike who have a variety of possible axes to grind?

The Catechism makes it clear that Sex belongs inside Marriage. Marriage has a divinely appointed purpose and was elevated to the status of a Sacrament by Christ Himself.

All sexual activity outside Marriage is sinful. Normally gravely so.
Marriage cannot exist between 2 men. it is an institution between one man and one woman.

To engage in sexual acts with a person of the same gender is therefore always Fornication. To reject this teaching is to reject the teaching of the New Testament.

The catechism has been linked to above.

Here’s the official teaching on this area from the Vatican
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

Here’s the policy of the USCCB

and here’s the policy of the Canadian Bishops.

Read what the church actually teaches first. then if you have specific questions or objections we can discuss them.
 
dshix said:
No one has suggested abortion is not wrong. I’m not sure where you got that.

Capital punishment, as with anything else, is taught about by the Church. If you are a Catholic, and you accept the teaching of the Church, you should have no difficulty understanding.

Abortion has to do with killing an innocent human being without any provocation or legitimate reason. Capital punishment has to do with killing a guilty or dangerous human being who has done a serious crime. If you can’t see the difference, open your eyes.
Click to expand...
That’s a typo I never meant to suggest abortion is never wrong.

Right because to be a “true” Catholic is to obey and not question. That’s not the equivalent of a moral wrong. Actually it’s presumed guilt, we can truly never be 100 percent sure that we execute a guilty person. Thus how does the church defend the difference if we execute an innocent person which the US has done although innocence has occurred after the fact?

This is really getting off subject with this thread so that will be my last response on abortion and the death penalty.
 
anruari said:
Have you actually read the churches teaching on the issues surrounding sexuality… The actual church teachings, not the misinterpretations bandied about by the secular media, and ill informed laity and clergy alike who have a variety of possible axes to grind?

The Catechism makes it clear that Sex belongs inside Marriage. Marriage has a divinely appointed purpose and was elevated to the status of a Sacrament by Christ Himself.

All sexual activity outside Marriage is sinful. Normally gravely so.
Marriage cannot exist between 2 men. it is an institution between one man and one woman.

To engage in sexual acts with a person of the same gender is therefore always Fornication. To reject this teaching is to reject the teaching of the New Testament.

The catechism has been linked to above.

Here’s the official teaching on this area from the Vatican
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

Here’s the policy of the USCCB

and here’s the policy of the Canadian Bishops.

Read what the church actually teaches first. then if you have specific questions or objections we can discuss them.
Click to expand...
I’ve read these and understand them. I stand by my original post.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
That’s a typo I never meant to suggest abortion is never wrong.

Right because to be a “true” Catholic is to obey and not question. That’s not the equivalent of a moral wrong. Actually it’s presumed guilt, we can truly never be 100 percent sure that we execute a guilty person. Thus how does the church defend the difference if we execute an innocent person which the US has done although innocence has occurred after the fact?

This is really getting off subject with this thread so that will be my last response on abortion and the death penalty.
Click to expand...
Read up on what the Church teaches before you publicly reject it. The church doesn’t teach that it’s ok to just go about executing anyone who has been deemed guilty but rather only in the case where it’s the only way to effective defend lives against the unjust aggressor.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
I suppose I will put it simple the Catholic teaching on homosexuality is cruel. Those aren’t my words but rather a Priest in the church. I agree with that assessment.
Comparing this to abortion, or other church doctrines just doesn’t have the same equivelant. I also really hate that we relegate the issue to abortion, because its not about abortion it’s about life. Hence why as Catholics we should be just as morally opposed to abortion as we are the death penalty unfortunately we don’t remark as much on the subject of the death penalty as we do on abortion.
Click to expand...
Homosexuality, in and of itself is disordered and sinful. One who practices this vice is in a state of mortal sin and commits sacrilage if receiving Holy Communion. Therefore, one in a state of mortal sin cannot speak for the Church as lector, CCD teacher or as one who takes the Body of Our Lord to the sick. To touch the Body of Our Lord with defiled hands is another sacrilage in itself. Any pastor who has knowlege of this situation and does not take action, is remiss in his duty. One has only to observe the destruction that homosexuality has done to the Church to see that tolerance of this sickness must not occur in any form and to curtail any practicing homosexual’s participation in the offices of the Church is merely wise practice.
The death penalty has no parellel or relationship to abortion or homosexuality. One is the murder of the innocent and the other is the protection of society against predators. Homosexuality is merely a disgusting perversion that is against the law of God. Neither abortion nor homosexuality should be advocated nor tolerated.
Click to expand...
 
KellyPalmer said:
Read up on what the Church teaches before you publicly reject it. The church doesn’t teach that it’s ok to just go about executing anyone who has been deemed guilty but rather only in the case where it’s the only way to effective defend lives against the unjust aggressor.
Click to expand...
Thus by this definition and the church the death penalty is morally indefensible in a country such as the United States? No?
 
stlcatholic86 said:
I suppose I will put it simple the Catholic teaching on homosexuality is cruel. Those aren’t my words but rather a Priest in the church. I agree with that assessment.

Comparing this to abortion, or other church doctrines just doesn’t have the same equivelant. I also really hate that we relegate the issue to abortion, because its not about abortion it’s about life. Hence why as Catholics we should be just as morally opposed to abortion as we are the death penalty unfortunately we don’t remark as much on the subject of the death penalty as we do on abortion.
Click to expand...
If a priest actually said this he is in grave error. This explains much.
No wonder so many are so confused about right and wrong.

Woe to the one who causes my little ones to sin…it would be better that a mill stone be tied around his neck and be cast into the sea then lead one of my little ones to sin.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
Thus by this definition and the church the death penalty is morally indefensible in a country such as the United States? No?
Click to expand...
Pretty much…it certainly hasn’t been an issue as of yet. I suppose something could happen in the future. That’s why the Church hasn’t been defending the Capital Punishment that has gone on here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top