Nicolas Coppola, gay catholic who married, is banned from church duties, was this right?

[EasterJoy]

What I was trying to point out by my rant is the fact that many Catholics simply ain’t acting like Catholics. They are wearing the name but they are not playing the game. Catholics are behind the curve on most of the life issues in this country. Very difficult to tell the difference between your average Catholic and your average Protestant. We are supposed to lead by example and we are failing. FAILING! Full stop. We need to take a very hard look at ourselves, quit being lazy and start taking care of business. And you all know exactly what I am talking about.

There was a time when American Catholics were excluded from the cultural mainstream, and no amount of downplaying the faith would help any of us to climb the social ladder. The flip side of overcoming the unfair prejudices against us has been that we are too much tempted to believe what the world says before we believe what the Church teaches. If we let go of what the Church teaches, now we can fit in. That did not used to be so.

Still, you talk as if American Protestants have never been known for having a moral compass. That is simply not true! The Protestants, too, have been lured away from so many moral principles they shared with us–some lured almost by entire denominations, alas, although I don’t believe that all the members consent to this slipping!!–and shared with us not so long ago, so that they, too, have baptized members who have abandoned even the most elementary moral principles in favor of believing blatant lies. The snake told Eve about the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: “God knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad.” Today’s world says the same about Church teaching: “Question Authority!! Better yet, let go of it, open your eyes, and see that you are gods who can decide good and evil for yourselves. You are your own best conscience; religion only oppresses you. Do what pleases you, let others do whatever pleases them, and we will have peace and justice for everyone!” New times, but the same old lies and same old source. Tried and true “technologies” will never be abandoned, will they? But there are still Protestants who are sticking with the truth, too, even though they’re getting shelled for it as much as we are.

 

[hosemonkey]

There was a time when American Catholics were excluded from the cultural mainstream, and no amount of downplaying the faith would help any of us to climb the social ladder. The flip side of overcoming the unfair prejudices against us has been that we are too much tempted to believe what the world says before we believe what the Church teaches. If we let go of what the Church teaches, now we can fit in. That did not used to be so.

Still, you talk as if American Protestants have never been known for having a moral compass. That is simply not true! The Protestants, too, have been lured away from so many moral principles they shared with us–some lured almost by entire denominations, alas, although I don’t believe that all the members consent to this slipping!!–and shared with us not so long ago, so that they, too, have baptized members who have abandoned even the most elementary moral principles in favor of believing blatant lies. The snake told Eve about the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: "God knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know what is good and what is bad

You are correct. Faithful Catholics as well as faithful Protestants(mostly Evangelical) are being demonized and marginalized by the the culture and by the Government. What disturbs me the most is the general loss of the sense of outrage at the atrocities committed in the name of Political Correctness and Diversity, slaughter of the innocents and the blatant erosion of our civil rights by the disregard for our Constitution. Catholics, if they would truly follow the teachings of the church regarding these issues and voting as a bloc, could turn this nation around in one election. Instead, they have been beguiled by Satan with the promise of integration. Sad. I, for one, will never surrender.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Nor I!

 

[adrift]

Yes you are correct pedophillia is the wrong term. It’s a child molestation problem NOT a homosexual problem. While not nearly as published there are many cases of priests molesting females as well. Please tell me how that is not a heterosexual problem, but priests molesting males is a homosexual problem? Simple its not a sexuality problem, but a molestation problem.

Women are guilty of molesting teenagers as well. I have never heard of a woman molesting a girl. Possible that it has happened that is true. If a woman was to molest a girl I would call it homosexual too. When she molests a boy, it is heterosexual. By definition that is what it is. I wouldn’t call either a problem just fact.

 

[EasterJoy]

Women are guilty of molesting teenagers as well. I have never heard of a woman molesting a girl. Possible that it has happened that is true. If a woman was to molest a girl I would call it homosexual too. When she molests a boy, it is heterosexual. By
definition that is what it is. I wouldn’t call either a problem just fact.

Women are less likely in general to commit sexual assaults. I have heard, however, of heterosexual couples luring young people into sexual situations the young people are too young to consent to, and of course I have heard of women acting to procure underage girls for men in exchange for money. Again, not a case of a disordered sexual orientation, but a case of a moral conscience that has totally gone absent, all the same. Not all grave sexual sin can be chalked up to sexual disorders.

 

[adrift]

Women are less likely in general to commit sexual assaults. I have heard, however, of heterosexual couples luring young people into sexual situations the young people are too young to consent to, and of course I have heard of women acting to procure underage girls for men in exchange for money. Again, not a case of a disordered sexual orientation, but a case of a moral conscience that has totally gone absent, all the same. Not all grave sexual sin can be chalked up to sexual disorders.

True.

In the past, would you have ever seen the situation of a woman becoming pregnant by a 12 year old? I am fearful that we will see more of this and the idea of women being less likely will fall by the wayside.

 

[hosemonkey]

Nor I!

Thanks for your courage. BTW, just learned today that my 21st grandchild will be born in December. Deo Gratias! Sounds like bragging, but all ten of my kids are still in the Church and still practicing faithfully. I am the richest of men.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Thanks for your courage. BTW, just learned today that my 21st grandchild will be born in December. Deo Gratias! Sounds like bragging, but all ten of my kids are still in the Church and still practicing faithfully. I am the richest of men.

Wow. Wonderful. You are blessed.

Don’t mean to derail, but I had to comment.

 

[EasterJoy]

True.

In the past, would you have ever seen the situation of a woman becoming pregnant by a 12 year old? I am fearful that we will see more of this and the idea of women being less likely will fall by the wayside.

Yes, a full-grown woman getting pregnant by a 12 year old requires emotional coercion. Just as if it were a man who lured a 12 year old girl, it is a rape.

I am hoping that we have heard enough that young people will be protected from those who used to be able to take advantage of being thought above suspicion. Even those who still think it essentially impossible to do such a thing are being required to protect young people from predators like this. It is relatively rare for a woman to do something like this, but rare is not never, and so because of the hideousness of the crime and the vulnerability of the victim it is not rare enough.

But this is off the thread topic, because that is one violation of moral law that has not been normalized yet. NAMBLA may try to change it, but so far even the secularists recoil from the idea that an adults should be able to lure 12 year olds into bed with them.

 

[EasterJoy]

Well in fairness it does become hate, when what is being said is used to cause harm amongst the gay community.

You are correct I don’t know your ties to or feelings to homosexuals. I can only surmise from our interaction on this website and I’ll be honest it doesn’t lead me to believe you have a real positive impact. Much like the church I fear you have a negative impact on those that suffer the conflict of the Church’s teaching on homosexuality and identifying as homosexual.

Is the Church teaching that pedophiles ought to be hated when the Church teaches that pedophilia is a disorder that must be resisted and not acted upon? Do you think it is the Church’s teaching that pedophilia is wrong that is the problem? Is that what is causing hatred of the pedophiles? Do you think people with a disorder like pedophilia deserve to be hated? Do you think they want to be pedophiles, that they don’t want to have a normal attraction to another adult, to someone they can marry and have children with? When you accept and love someone who has that disorder, what does that look like? What would you say to them about their default inclination, the orientation that they can’t change?

Is it hate when the Church teaches that premarital sex is wrong, that it is due to out-of-bound passions that must be resisted and not acted upon? Is it hate when the Church teaches that it is morally wrong to abandon the spouse you don’t like so that you can marry someone you like better or even just live a life on your own that pleases you more? Do you think the Church is just trying to spoil people’s lives by expecting marriages to last for a lifetime?

It is not hatred, is it, to tell a person that they must strive for self-mastery? You can know yourself and accept yourself without thinking it hatred of you to be told you cannot follow all the inclinations that your particular biology presses upon you. Or do you think that no one ought to tell someone else what self-mastery means for that other person? Is that even true for table manners? Driving a car? Working at a job? Why would sexuality be different than pretty much every other sphere of human life?

 

[DamienXopher]

So I just joined this forum as a way to connect with other Catholics around the world maybe. I am new Baptized and Confirmed. I am also a gay man. My calling to Christ is not me ashamed of my sexuality or trying to change. I’m an extremely happy person. It was just time for me to set down all the mess and get right with the Lord. Now what this man did, okay so it goes against Church teaching. But think about it. The nation is in an uproar about this throwing Scriptures around like confetti. His Union with this man is out of love and should be respected just as you want YOUR marriage, union, partnership, whatever accepted and respected. As a gay man I came into the church because I found the Catholic faith to be a lot more welcoming. I was raised a Baptist and experienced so much hatred and intolerance towards anything different it was ridiculous. So I left the church. I left Christ. But I felt him tugging on my heart telling me that it’s okay. No need to be afraid. Just as these two men were not afraid to do what comes naturally when you love someone so much. As far as him not being able to continue work in the Parish that is ridiculous and absurd. How you gonna turn somebody away, then turn around and preach the message of love? I guess I must be lucky that people in my Parish did embrace me and saw me for more than my sexuality. I’m a caregiver, brother, son, god son, uncle. In the end the more you preach about what is and is not sin and what is right and not right you are moving farther away form from the message of Jesus Christ. Which is to love and be loved without fear. I don’t know. That’s just how I feel. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just know that it must be a blessing to find someone that you love and cherish that you can go to church with. Pray with. In the LGBT lifestyle so many are running away from the Church. I’ve actually lost friend because of my decision to come to Christ. It’s fear of rejection and hatred. So if someone is devout in their faith and lives their faith to the BEST OF THEIR ABILITY JUST AS WE ALL DO then what makes them wrong and unjust in the eyes of God? Nothing. At least that’s what I’ve gotten out of the Scriptures. I believe in this Church and I believe that the new Pope will make great strides. Not for LGBT people, but for all people. And I pray that one day this man and his partner are able to continue in the life they had.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Two men loving each other as human beings can be love.

Two men having sex is never love under any circumstances.

Period. This is what the Church teaches.

 

[DamienXopher]

I respect your opinion, but keep in mind the Church teaches MANY things and I’ve seen things outside of church that could curl your toes and these same people go and receive Communion and be singing in the choir. Now the feeling I’m getting from some, not all is that those things are okay because those people are heterosexual. But because I want to be with one man and love him forever and be with him I’m wrong. See that’s why I love the Lord. Simply because NO MATTER who you are or what you have done. You can be forgiven. Trust me I’ve done some things in my past! Am I ashamed? Yes. Very. But come on. The love of two men or two women can’t possibly out weigh what is really going on in the world. But apparently it does. I live my life day to day the best I know how. I don’t judge. I don’t cast stones. I spread the teachings of Love and Acceptance. Cause in the end, it’s all that we have. We can quote Scripture and all that but it doesn’t get anywhere. But it seems so much easier doesn’t it? So much easier than just LOVING your fellow man and accepting him flaws and all.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

It’s not my opinion.

It’s Church teaching on morality.

Homosexual sex acts are intrinsically evil and never moral.

Jesus loves people who commit homosexual sex acts despite the sin of the act, not because of it.

 

[DamienXopher]

Well if that’s all it takes to be evil then that’s okay. It’s a lot worse things I could be doing.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Well if that’s all it takes to be evil then that’s okay. It’s a lot worse things I could be doing.

What?

 

[jonathan_hili]

Real manlove is…Gilgamesh and Enkidu…

Wow, now I’ve lived! I never thought I’d ever read that!

 

[Soren_Itenu]

 

[90Domer]

Thanks for your courage. BTW, just learned today that my 21st grandchild will be born in December. Deo Gratias! Sounds like bragging, but all ten of my kids are still in the Church and still practicing faithfully. I am the richest of men.

And that is a beautiful testament to you and your wonderful wife! May God richly bless you and your family!

 

[90Domer]

Well if that’s all it takes to be evil then that’s okay. It’s a lot worse things I could be doing.

It sounds like you joined the Church to try to change it from within rather than live to it’s teachings. I certainly hope this is not the case.