Nicolas Coppola, gay catholic who married, is banned from church duties, was this right?

[jonathan_hili]

And the Church is supposed to welcome those with same-sex attraction with open arms and show love and compassion, as per the recent words of Cardinal Dolan at Easter and as per the Catechism.

Hi DaddyGirl, I’m not sure if you’re speaking directly about this situation with Mr Coppola, but if you are, this is clearly not what’s going on at this parish.

 

[Lapey]

Yes you are correct pedophillia is the wrong term. It’s a child molestation problem NOT a homosexual problem. While not nearly as published there are many cases of priests molesting females as well. Please tell me how that is not a heterosexual problem, but priests molesting males is a homosexual problem? Simple its not a sexuality problem, but a molestation problem.

Ok, I’ll explain this to you. Any homosexual act is un natural. Heterosexual sex is natural; no, not adult and child so do even try to infer that I condone this. There is disorder in the participants age and ability to consent and it is outside of marriage so it is sinful no matter what, but there is no herterosexual problem; it is a sicko problem for lack of a better term. There is no un-natural action when man and woman become one in Holy Matrimony, therefore no heterosexual problem. Do you know what genesis means by become one? That cannot happen with two men or two women therefore it is un-natural and is a homosexual problem.

 

[Lapey]

How is telling parishiners he has same-sex attraction leading them astray?

As has been said many times here already, to have same sex attraction is not a sin.
This priest is chaste, so he is not sinning.

And the Church is supposed to welcome those with same-sex attraction with open arms and show love and compassion, as per the recent words of Cardinal Dolan at Easter and as per the Catechism.

The Church keeps saying being gay is not a sin…and that gay people should be treated like everyone else, especially if they are following teachings correctly…so there should be nothing wrong with this priest telling others he has same-sex attraction.
There is no reason the parishioners, as per Church teachings, should have a negative reaction to this.

In fact, I would imagine that, according to the Church, this priest would be a GOOD example as a leader in the Church…especially to those who are gay and trying to be chaste and still want to be Catholic and follow God in the Catholic structure.

His actions and advice to teens is where the damage was caused, not his “comeing out party”. He formed minds of little ones in a way that led them to believe there is no sin in acting “as God created them”, as homosexuals. He warped there understanding of truth, and therefore mal-formed their consciences. This has nothing at all to do with his personal orrientation, it has everything to do with heteradox teaching by a priest.

 

[90Domer]

Yes you are correct pedophillia is the wrong term. It’s a child molestation problem NOT a homosexual problem. While not nearly as published there are many cases of priests molesting females as well. Please tell me how that is not a heterosexual problem, but priests molesting males is a homosexual problem? Simple its not a sexuality problem, but a molestation problem.

Ephebophilia or hebephilia are the correct terms. How can you not see this is a SSA priest problem? The overwhelming amount of abuse was SSA abuse of post-pubescent boys by priests. Read any of the research by Philip Jenkins, Pd.D. prof at Penn St. University. This is no different from what Kevin Clash (of Elmo fame) is facing. And if they priests were not abusing young boys they were probably having sex with other guys.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Actuay there werent Only about 10% of those molested were girls.

I have a feeling that is just a number you pulled out of thin air. My point was there have been many cases of a priest sexually abusing underage girls. That is simply fact. I have already granted that more were underage boys and I already addressed why this was likely the case in my earlier post, but nobody seems to want to refute that claim.

In the end my point stands the Catholic church has a child molestation problem not a homosexual problem. Conflating the two is problematic for many reasons.

 

[90Domer]

It may only seem as such because traditionally, there have only been male altar servers in the Church…and the close proximity of these young boys to the priest, especially because it is easy for him to be alone with them, makes them the easiest target to prey on merely because of that.

These priests may not have same-sex attraction at all, but just be pedophiles. They may *never *have had same-sex attraction.

Female altar servers are still a minority in the Church…but if that was not the case, the girls may be just as likely to be the victims–maybe even more so and even only so–to a priest who is a pedophile.

So there may be no link at all to same-sex attraction and pedophile priests.

.

Still not true. Too much research and too much abuse of post-pubescent boys to think that the greater presence of girls would make a difference. Most of the abuse by priests was wrongly labeled pedophilia.

 

[90Domer]

I have a feeling that is just a number you pulled out of thin air. My point was there have been many cases of a priest sexually abusing underage girls. That is simply fact. I have already granted that more were underage boys and I already addressed why this was likely the case in my earlier post, but nobody seems to want to refute that claim.

In the end my point stands the Catholic church has a child molestation problem not a homosexual problem. Conflating the two is problematic for many reasons.

Here’s a source. I will try to find others.

theamericanconservative.com/articles/myth-of-a-catholic-crisis/

 

[stlcatholic86]

Ephebophilia or hebephilia are the correct terms. How can you not see this is a SSA priest problem? The overwhelming amount of abuse was SSA abuse of post-pubescent boys by priests. Read any of the research by Philip Jenkins, Pd.D. prof at Penn St. University. This is no different from what Kevin Clash (of Elmo fame) is facing. And if they priests were not abusing young boys they were probably having sex with other guys.

Incorrect the correct term is child molestation. Much like the terms homosexual and heterosexual, ephebophilia, hebephilia (which by the way are terms under the umbrella pedophillia) don’t descibe sexual activities but deal with attraction to specific genders or age groups.

I haven’t read any of the research by Dr. Philip Jenkins, but perhaps you have some recommendations in particular and I would be happy to review it. My understanding is that his research has mostly focused on the fact that sexual abuse or scandal is not exclusive to the Catholic church, however, the media mostly portrays Catholics due to the perceived hypocrisy (ie its more sensational).

Anyway the APA and numerous medical organizations (which Im sure you’ll argue have been hijacked by the homosexual lobby) have considerable research that those that are child molesters have no predisposition to any sexual orientation and this research follows to pedophiles and those under that term that the issue is they don’t learn how to pursue relationships with adults. The reason I have stated before that boys were more likely than girls to be molested is because of the structure of the church (ie. its more likely for a priest to have access alone with boys than girls). Thus the major problem of conflating homosexuals as the culprit of being the problem besides that its untrue and extremely offensive it ignores the problem, which is sexual abusers in the priesthood.

I am not sure why Kevin Clash is being brought up in this debate, but I’ll put simply if the allegations alleged against him turn out to be true. It has nothing to do with his stated sexual orientation and everything to do with him being a child molester. There are way more instances of child molestation among heterosexual relations, yet I don’t hear you conflate it as a OSA issue.

 

[jonathan_hili]

Ah, gotcha.

Wow, that’s a bit ballsy thing for the parish priest to do!

 

[Frank_Drebin]

Ephebophilia or hebephilia are the correct terms. How can you not see this is a SSA priest problem? The overwhelming amount of abuse was SSA abuse of post-pubescent boys by priests. Read any of the research by Philip Jenkins, Pd.D. prof at Penn St. University. This is no different from what Kevin Clash (of Elmo fame) is facing. And if they priests were not abusing young boys they were probably having sex with other guys.

Not to mention, if you had an SSA issue and wanted to molest a child, what better way to go about it than as a Priest (or scout leader, or any position of trust and access).

 

[stlcatholic86]

Ok, I’ll explain this to you. Any homosexual act is un natural. Heterosexual sex is natural; no, not adult and child so do even try to infer that I condone this. There is disorder in the participants age and ability to consent and it is outside of marriage so it is sinful no matter what, but there is no herterosexual problem; it is a sicko problem for lack of a better term. There is no un-natural action when man and woman become one in Holy Matrimony, therefore no heterosexual problem. Do you know what genesis means by become one? That cannot happen with two men or two women therefore it is un-natural and is a homosexual problem.

I’m sorry but this makes zero sense in the context of my argument. Are you suggesting it is not a child molestation problem? Because if so you are wrong. This has nothing to do with the morality of homosexuality. I already know where you stand on this issue, and you know where I stand. The issue has become about abuse in the priesthood not about sexuality.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

I think we might be mixing up two separate posts…as per my post above, I’m talking about the priest who wrote a letter to his parishioners about being gay.
He is chaste, and he is not teaching or showing by example that same-sex is okay, so he is following the rules of the Church exactly (right?)

I don’t care what he is. He is disobedient to his Bishop. Stop making thios about the poor chaste gay Priest. He was a poor chaste gay Priest who refused to obey his spiritual boss, this breaking the vows he took.

Whether you like it or not, obedience is a vow taken that must be upheld by these men.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Not to mention, if you had an SSA issue and wanted to molest a child, what better way to go about it than as a Priest (or scout leader, or any position of trust and access).

This equates homosexuality to child molestation, not true and a really damaging idea. Of course I imagine people on this forum would have no problem prohibiting homosexuals from teaching professions, coaching, any medical profession that grants access to children (18 and younger), or for that matter any profession that grants access to children.

 

[EasterJoy]

This has nothing to do with being a threat to children. Nothing. There are policies in place for excluding people on those grounds, which include both a) whether the person has any history of sexual assault on anyone or being a danger to children in particular and b) whether the person is willing to abide by rules that prevent child molesters from opportunities to groom and victimize children or young people.

No, this has to do with being in public defiance of a non-negotiable Church teaching. The fair question to ask, then, is this: Do heterosexuals who have married a second person civilly after marrying someone else validly in the Church and not having obtained an annulment face the same restrictions? If not, they ought to, because that, too, is to have defied Church teaching by a deliberate legal action that is in the public record and a serious offense against divine law. This is worse than living in a scandalous situation that may or may not be evidence of actual sin, in spite of appearances. IOW, if you allow adults to live together who may be having an inappropriate sexual relationship, even those who talk as if they do, that is one thing. If you allow someone into a leadership position who has gone so far as to seek civil recognition and advantage from their defiance of moral law of serious gravity, that is another thing altogether.

Another example would be someone who obtained a box-top “ordination” for the purpose of performing weddings. You cannot do that and expect to be given a position of trust in the Church. This is different from someone who has a job as a civil authority which does not allow them exemptions on account of conscience when it comes to performing weddings they believe are bigamous or otherwise morally offensive.

 

[90Domer]

Incorrect the correct term is child molestation. Much like the terms homosexual and heterosexual, ephebophilia, hebephilia (which by the way are terms under the umbrella pedophillia) don’t descibe sexual activities but deal with attraction to specific genders or age groups.

I haven’t read any of the research by Dr. Philip Jenkins, but perhaps you have some recommendations in particular and I would be happy to review it. My understanding is that his research has mostly focused on the fact that sexual abuse or scandal is not exclusive to the Catholic church, however, the media mostly portrays Catholics due to the perceived hypocrisy (ie its more sensational).

Anyway the APA and numerous medical organizations (which Im sure you’ll argue have been hijacked by the homosexual lobby) have considerable research that those that are child molesters have no predisposition to any sexual orientation and this research follows to pedophiles and those under that term that the issue is they don’t learn how to pursue relationships with adults. The reason I have stated before that boys were more likely than girls to be molested is because of the structure of the church (ie. its more likely for a priest to have access alone with boys than girls). Thus the major problem of conflating homosexuals as the culprit of being the problem besides that its untrue and extremely offensive it ignores the problem, which is sexual abusers in the priesthood.

I am not sure why Kevin Clash is being brought up in this debate, but I’ll put simply if the allegations alleged against him turn out to be true. It has nothing to do with his stated sexual orientation and everything to do with him being a child molester. There are way more instances of child molestation among heterosexual relations, yet I don’t hear you conflate it as a OSA issue.

That is one part of Dr. Jenkins research, but I fear you will not be open-minded enough to look at his other work.

Here is another link:

christiannewswire.com/news/494913683.html

And you are wrong…those two terms define sexual preference and are widely used terms for sex offenders. Much as you may hate to admit it, SSA and hebephilia/ephebophilia are co-morbid conditions to some significant extent. Please explain why the NAMBLA folks push so hard to allow man-boy sex?

Kevin Clash was purely an example of the penchant of SSA men to choose young boys as sex partners. And if they are unwilling, it is molestation.

 

[90Domer]

Not to mention, if you had an SSA issue and wanted to molest a child, what better way to go about it than as a Priest (or scout leader, or any position of trust and access).

Absolutely. They would seek out positions or occupations where there are large number of potential targets, for want of a better word. And then you have people like Jerry Sandusky who set up his own foundation for at-risk boys as a way to find future victims.

 

[90Domer]

Here is one more post:

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=15532

 

[90Domer]

If a priest was just gay and not a pedopheliac…then he’d just have sex with another adult male, not with kids.

Just like heterosexual people want only to have sex with adults, not children…gay men or gay women who are not pedopheliacs want to have sex with adults…not children.

Having sex with kids is an entirely, ENTIRELY different category!

And what I am trying to tell you is that SSA inclined people have a preference for a wide range of ages. It’s co-morbid, really.

 

[stlcatholic86]

That is one part of Dr. Jenkins research, but I fear you will not be open-minded enough to look at his other work.

Here is another link:

christiannewswire.com/news/494913683.html

And you are wrong…those two terms define sexual preference and are widely used terms for sex offenders. Much as you may hate to admit it, SSA and hebephilia/ephebophilia are co-morbid conditions to some significant extent. Please explain why the NAMBLA folks push so hard to allow man-boy sex?

Kevin Clash was purely an example of the penchant of SSA men to choose young boys as sex partners. And if they are unwilling, it is molestation.

It’s quite presumptuous to think I won’t be open to his other research. Oh and the link you provided Dr. Jenkins doesn’t conclude that homosexuality and these acts are synonymous. In fact little of that article is dedicated to the subject, the most he concludes is that some people refer to those as homosexual acts.

Actually they aren’t widely used terms for sex offenders. The widely used term for sex offenders is sex offender. In fact, you should look up the meetings about the drafting of the DSM V and see how controversial the addition of the terms you used are. There is definitely some research that suggest we ought to adopt those terms to better differentiate sex offender, but it is not widely accepted.

Unfortunately the second article you posted is from an organization I can’t for the life of me find anything about. It seems they have a very specific agenda and they aren’t actually properly analyzing the John Jay report, which incidental makes no judgment about homosexuals in the priesthood. This article goes way further in fact to suggest we should ban homosexuals from any profession that includes contact with children.

Actually legally it has no bearing if a minor wishes to engage in a relationship with an older person. It’s still a sex offense. Thus its more apt to label Kevin Clash, if the allegations are true, clearly you make that assumption, as a child molester and not a homosexual who likes young men/adults. I suppose you make that distinction when a male gym teacher molests a girl. Oh, hes not a child molester hes hetreosexual who like young girls/women. It’s pretty ridiculous.

No I’m sorry homosexuality has about as much to do with hebephilia/ephebophilia heterosexuality conflating the two is just plain wrong and really I’m sorry is extremely offensive. Are you asking me to defend NAMBLA? Ridiculous, I won’t do it. Everything their organization stands for I am adamantly against. The can say that they have consent all they want, but children aren’t sex objects and shouldn’t be used as such, so I have severe problems with pederasty and pedophillia, which is what this organization advocates for.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Here is one more post:

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=15532

It’s a three paragraph article which basically says homosexuality is the problem even though research has not shown that its the problem, but it should show its the problem. It doesn’t explain at all empirically why it is the problem.